B737 driver
Veteran
- Jul 6, 2017
- 3,381
- 209
TEAMSTERS power, and UPS success. Vrs a association fighting itself and Parker who wants to pay the minimum he can get away with and pass a contract.
what has the association accomplished?
- Thread starter dfw gen
- Start date
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,533
- 5,262
Put WHAT out for a vote??????? Why is this part at the moment escaping you?
Be honest with me NOTOK. You don’t believe the Association or any of those guys that come on here and tell you things more than you believe the Company?
You believe they have a comprehensive proposal and they’re just keeping that from us?
Do you care at all that the Company DID move off their first Video position? Do you really think they’re done moving?
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,533
- 5,262
Ok driver it took almost 5 years of Negotiations for the mighty TEAMSTERS to find their power so give me a break there ok.
As for UPS revenue yes absolutely it’s a behemoth. BUT they also work their employees to death for that great pay and benefits.
Airline people would croak in droves if they had to work that hard.
CremaDiLimone
Veteran
- Jun 8, 2016
- 1,817
- 154
yes, absolutely true. the lazy that feel self-entitled to get out of work and have others do their work...and the lazy, corrupt crew chiefs that take care of them and various CSMs that bring nothing to the table for the company and turn their heads the other way...and get paid $75k to play computer golf or watch youtube videos all day.
the airline that has gotten too big for it's britches. disgusting stuff.
Weez go to JAX or TLH where people making about 1/3 as much as you do with no or at best far inferior benefits are on their feet all day, possibly work split shifts, perhaps subject to being cross utilized. You work at a hub and have lots of downtime between flights and also a significant number of widebody departures on a Kloader versus more strenuous bulk losing.
Labor costs are benchmarked on a system level at all airlines, you are being subsidized by the low wage Envoy, ATS, Piedmont, etc employees who handle both mainline and Eagle at small outstations.
Josh
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,533
- 5,262
From my experiences with UPS drivers they ride them way too hard actually. There has to be a balance even if a Company is providing great pay and benefits.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #67
what has the association accomplished? before i start i want to make clear this is not a knock on iam members but their leadership their decisions and the consequences. we have a few winners on our side of the fence.
you might say the pay raise, the company brought cross utilization. what we sold and what they brought were two different things. Robert Isom was right in saying that pay raise may have been a mistake. for them it was.
anyway what have they accomplished?
when our p.v's were taken away, what was the reaction? i dont know they dont tell us anything. but i would imagine it was "gee we have D.A.T.s man that sucks. instead of being a true partner mobilizing the troops and saying an injustice for one is an injustice for all"
when they took away our flex vacation, what was the reaction of the association? a true partner would have come to our aid and said "no, you cant take that in fact we want it!" instead i would imagine the response was "we dont have that, wow. see you later" i dont know they dont tell us anything.
the first holiday my partner had that i didnt, you would think there would be outrage. and some kind of support. instead i would imagine the reaction was "damn you guys got hosed!" hey we are having a bbq ill get back to you on that. i dont know they dont tell us ****.
when i was walking the picket on my own time, a true partner would have joined me and had sympathy from your plight and multiple trips thru bankruptcy. instead of loading the leadership in a bus and bringing them down,i guess they are saving themselves to be the tip of the spear for when they need a partner.
now we are told wait till we have a jcba its not the right time. when is the right time? up to now everything negotiated and t.a'd is fluff. its stuff that they just talk about to get to know each other until the real issues come up scope and benefits.its important but easy basically procedural. now we are down to the nitty gritty of negotiations and all along i have trouble believing that what the company wants in scope and benefits was not anticipated by the negotiating committee. i find it very hard to believe that we were truly blind sided, i pay the association to negotiate a contract to be prepared for what may come to the best of their ability. all of the above examples are what preparations should have been made to ensure a strong partnership that can not be broken and is properly bonded.
they failed.
is now the time? when the association was imposed, its creation was based on the deception of a vote that did not occur. all the secrecy and rumors and misinformation that has been allowed to run rampant is another sign of the failure of the association.
im not feeling the refreshing fresh air of change, just the hot muggy feeling as business as usual.
i dont know they dont tell us anything.
you might say the pay raise, the company brought cross utilization. what we sold and what they brought were two different things. Robert Isom was right in saying that pay raise may have been a mistake. for them it was.
anyway what have they accomplished?
when our p.v's were taken away, what was the reaction? i dont know they dont tell us anything. but i would imagine it was "gee we have D.A.T.s man that sucks. instead of being a true partner mobilizing the troops and saying an injustice for one is an injustice for all"
when they took away our flex vacation, what was the reaction of the association? a true partner would have come to our aid and said "no, you cant take that in fact we want it!" instead i would imagine the response was "we dont have that, wow. see you later" i dont know they dont tell us anything.
the first holiday my partner had that i didnt, you would think there would be outrage. and some kind of support. instead i would imagine the reaction was "damn you guys got hosed!" hey we are having a bbq ill get back to you on that. i dont know they dont tell us ****.
when i was walking the picket on my own time, a true partner would have joined me and had sympathy from your plight and multiple trips thru bankruptcy. instead of loading the leadership in a bus and bringing them down,i guess they are saving themselves to be the tip of the spear for when they need a partner.
now we are told wait till we have a jcba its not the right time. when is the right time? up to now everything negotiated and t.a'd is fluff. its stuff that they just talk about to get to know each other until the real issues come up scope and benefits.its important but easy basically procedural. now we are down to the nitty gritty of negotiations and all along i have trouble believing that what the company wants in scope and benefits was not anticipated by the negotiating committee. i find it very hard to believe that we were truly blind sided, i pay the association to negotiate a contract to be prepared for what may come to the best of their ability. all of the above examples are what preparations should have been made to ensure a strong partnership that can not be broken and is properly bonded.
they failed.
is now the time? when the association was imposed, its creation was based on the deception of a vote that did not occur. all the secrecy and rumors and misinformation that has been allowed to run rampant is another sign of the failure of the association.
im not feeling the refreshing fresh air of change, just the hot muggy feeling as business as usual.
i dont know they dont tell us anything.
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,533
- 5,262
B737 driver
Veteran
- Jul 6, 2017
- 3,381
- 209
The only reason I said that was because look what UPS, got, it took 5 years, because they wanted their medical and got it. Teamsters can put a hurt on an employer with 1,000,000 membership. Vrs AMFA 4500 members. You guys could put a hurt on, but nobody cares and everyone fights.
enough already
Veteran
- Jan 8, 2003
- 659
- 249
AMP organizing committee information sheet
“ You guys don’t know what you are doing!”
Quoted - Pat Kinnamon – Local 514 Chairman of Maintenance
We know exactly what we are doing, and can even explain why we are doing this.
THE PROBLEM
Here is a quote from the Railway Labor Act
The RAILWAY LABOR ACT § 152. General duties
Fourth….
Employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing. The majority of any craft or class of employees shall have the right to determine who shall be the representative of the craft or class for the purposes of this chapter.
THIS DOESN’T SAY WE CAN OR WILL BE FORCED INTO AN ASSOCIATION OF DUAL FIGHTING UNIONS WITHOUT A VOTE OF THE MEMBERSHIP LIKE WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO US AT AMERICAN AIRLINES. THIS ABOMINATION OF UNIONISM WAS HANDED TO YOU ON APRIL 15th, 2015. OVER 3 YEARS AGO.
We have all waited for the Association to produce that “quick” Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) that Sean Doyle TWU International Representative promised us at meetings held on the Tulsa Base. TWU promised us a ballot, promised us the Association was the fastest way to the JCBA. Now we know the truth. The Association requested AA Management to keep all proceedings in negotiations secret.
After 3 years of sitting and waiting, many of us on the Tulsa Base have finally had enough. Enough Lies, Enough Misinformation, Enough Broken Promises, Enough Silencing of our Local Leadership. The Association even removed our President Dale Danker from the negotiating room asking him to be the water boy for those still in the room. Talk about a slap in the face. This left Local 514 without a voice in the negotiating room.
American Airlines management began disclosing the details of the company’s proposal, and told us why they agreed to secret negotiations, and why they decided to come out with the facts. Basically the Association lied to management destroying the credibility of our union.
Management knows we don’t support this Association. Management knows we never got to vote. Management knows the Association is an illegitimate representation and that we didn’t choose this and allowed by the Railway Labor Act. And since Management has lost all respect for the Association, negotiations have indeed completely stalled.
The MEMBERSHIP NEEDS A SINGLE UNION, A SINGLE VOICE, AND ONE THAT IS VOTED IN BY THE MAJORITY.
NOT THIS ILLEGITMATE ABOMINATION OF UNIONISM NEVER BEFORE SEEN IN LABOR HISTORY.
THE SOLUTION
To obtain the vote promised by the Railway Labor Act, we must sign authorization cards showing interest of at least 50% plus one of the eligible members in any craft or class.
Our craft or class is designated by the National Mediation Board.
And this Craft or Class is made of everyone in Title 1 and Title 2 along with planners, schedulers, trainers, ect. Or it is easier to say everyone except Stock Clerks and Fleet Service Clerks whom have their own craft or class and can also do what we are doing on their own accord.
Here are some Highlights of the AMP Constitution and why we chose this path.
AMP is an independent union just like the American Airlines Pilots and Flight Attendants. Both have been respected and treated far better than we have since American and USAir merged.
AMP prohibits the blackout of communication to membership, including contract negotiation proposals from Management and the Union.
AMP will return the line station locals removed by TWU International. And the President and Vice-President of each Local will sit on a Board of Directors; giving a voice back to membership in different locations across the system.
AMP will be made up of only members from the Mechanic and Related craft or class. We will no longer be combined with other groups and called “ground workers”. We will demand the respect that maintenance professionals deserve. Our piece of the negotiation pie will no longer be looted by other work groups simply because they out number us. We will be the majority in AMP.
AMP will have direct election of National Officers and recall of National Officers. The days of good ol’e boy appointees will become a thing of the past.
AMP is an independent union only representing American Airlines members in the craft or class of Mechanic and Related. This will keep the focus of National Officers and Board of Directors only upon our needs as employees of American Airlines.
AMP dues base will be $1.4 million per month based on the 2 hours pay per month dues rate. $16 million per year. Remember both the AA Pilots and the AA Flight Attendants started similar independent unions from a startup and succeeded. We can too!
AMP will be One Union, One Voice voted on by the membership via the National Mediation Board ballot. No more Dual Fighting Unions destroying our jobs.
AMP will immediately request AA management to engage in negotiations to quickly complete contract negotiations. We will be focused only on Mechanic and Related issues instead of 7 work groups negotiating at once as with this illegitimate Association.
The Positives of AMP and making this move now are extremely beneficial to the Mechanic and Related Craft of Class that we cannot delay. We need to sign the authorization cards to get a ONE Union, ONE Voice vote by the membership and quickly correct this horrible wrong.
This is a grass roots movement to eliminate the Association. Which is nothing more than an illegitimate un-voted on abomination of Unionism as it is meant to be.
SIGN AN AMP CARD AND TURN IT IN TODAY!!!
“ You guys don’t know what you are doing!”
Quoted - Pat Kinnamon – Local 514 Chairman of Maintenance
We know exactly what we are doing, and can even explain why we are doing this.
THE PROBLEM
Here is a quote from the Railway Labor Act
The RAILWAY LABOR ACT § 152. General duties
Fourth….
Employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing. The majority of any craft or class of employees shall have the right to determine who shall be the representative of the craft or class for the purposes of this chapter.
THIS DOESN’T SAY WE CAN OR WILL BE FORCED INTO AN ASSOCIATION OF DUAL FIGHTING UNIONS WITHOUT A VOTE OF THE MEMBERSHIP LIKE WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO US AT AMERICAN AIRLINES. THIS ABOMINATION OF UNIONISM WAS HANDED TO YOU ON APRIL 15th, 2015. OVER 3 YEARS AGO.
We have all waited for the Association to produce that “quick” Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) that Sean Doyle TWU International Representative promised us at meetings held on the Tulsa Base. TWU promised us a ballot, promised us the Association was the fastest way to the JCBA. Now we know the truth. The Association requested AA Management to keep all proceedings in negotiations secret.
After 3 years of sitting and waiting, many of us on the Tulsa Base have finally had enough. Enough Lies, Enough Misinformation, Enough Broken Promises, Enough Silencing of our Local Leadership. The Association even removed our President Dale Danker from the negotiating room asking him to be the water boy for those still in the room. Talk about a slap in the face. This left Local 514 without a voice in the negotiating room.
American Airlines management began disclosing the details of the company’s proposal, and told us why they agreed to secret negotiations, and why they decided to come out with the facts. Basically the Association lied to management destroying the credibility of our union.
Management knows we don’t support this Association. Management knows we never got to vote. Management knows the Association is an illegitimate representation and that we didn’t choose this and allowed by the Railway Labor Act. And since Management has lost all respect for the Association, negotiations have indeed completely stalled.
The MEMBERSHIP NEEDS A SINGLE UNION, A SINGLE VOICE, AND ONE THAT IS VOTED IN BY THE MAJORITY.
NOT THIS ILLEGITMATE ABOMINATION OF UNIONISM NEVER BEFORE SEEN IN LABOR HISTORY.
THE SOLUTION
To obtain the vote promised by the Railway Labor Act, we must sign authorization cards showing interest of at least 50% plus one of the eligible members in any craft or class.
Our craft or class is designated by the National Mediation Board.
And this Craft or Class is made of everyone in Title 1 and Title 2 along with planners, schedulers, trainers, ect. Or it is easier to say everyone except Stock Clerks and Fleet Service Clerks whom have their own craft or class and can also do what we are doing on their own accord.
Here are some Highlights of the AMP Constitution and why we chose this path.
AMP is an independent union just like the American Airlines Pilots and Flight Attendants. Both have been respected and treated far better than we have since American and USAir merged.
AMP prohibits the blackout of communication to membership, including contract negotiation proposals from Management and the Union.
AMP will return the line station locals removed by TWU International. And the President and Vice-President of each Local will sit on a Board of Directors; giving a voice back to membership in different locations across the system.
AMP will be made up of only members from the Mechanic and Related craft or class. We will no longer be combined with other groups and called “ground workers”. We will demand the respect that maintenance professionals deserve. Our piece of the negotiation pie will no longer be looted by other work groups simply because they out number us. We will be the majority in AMP.
AMP will have direct election of National Officers and recall of National Officers. The days of good ol’e boy appointees will become a thing of the past.
AMP is an independent union only representing American Airlines members in the craft or class of Mechanic and Related. This will keep the focus of National Officers and Board of Directors only upon our needs as employees of American Airlines.
AMP dues base will be $1.4 million per month based on the 2 hours pay per month dues rate. $16 million per year. Remember both the AA Pilots and the AA Flight Attendants started similar independent unions from a startup and succeeded. We can too!
AMP will be One Union, One Voice voted on by the membership via the National Mediation Board ballot. No more Dual Fighting Unions destroying our jobs.
AMP will immediately request AA management to engage in negotiations to quickly complete contract negotiations. We will be focused only on Mechanic and Related issues instead of 7 work groups negotiating at once as with this illegitimate Association.
The Positives of AMP and making this move now are extremely beneficial to the Mechanic and Related Craft of Class that we cannot delay. We need to sign the authorization cards to get a ONE Union, ONE Voice vote by the membership and quickly correct this horrible wrong.
This is a grass roots movement to eliminate the Association. Which is nothing more than an illegitimate un-voted on abomination of Unionism as it is meant to be.
SIGN AN AMP CARD AND TURN IT IN TODAY!!!
Talos
Senior
- Nov 23, 2013
- 444
- 70
Racer X
Veteran
- Feb 20, 2016
- 593
- 49
Who said they were blindsided? Who said they didn’t anticipate the company’s position? It appears that you are the one who is not prepared. Not prepared to hear that negotiations are time consuming and can be difficult. Not prepared to stand up and fight for what you want. But more likely, you ARE prepared to bad mouth the ones that actually are fighting FOR YOU. doesn’t take much preparation To sit back and just let others do the work.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #75
Sad thats they only thing you took away from that. But talking about sitting back and letting others do the work. Yea thats my m.o. what's yours?
