what has the association accomplished?

[Buck]

You would be better served to stop thinking of your “profession” as some type of fraternity. Do you think that individual gives a rats ass about you or any of us? He works for our direct competitor based in N Texas. Don’t you remember the Write Amendment?

You can hate my guts and thumb your nose down on me and my profession as much as you want but we both work for the same Company. We both have a huge vested interest in seeing that Company succeed. Our interest is in beating our competitors not kissing their asses.

BTW TWU may have been 3rd but AMFA at SWA came in dead last in case you’ve failed to notice. As a matter of fact, the Passenger Service Agents signed their agreements in 2014 and have already opened talks early with the Airline for a new Contract. That’s IAM 142 in case you’re interested.

I remember the Wright Amendment and you are not worth hating. Hating takes a lot of energy when I have no reason to do so. You speak of hate when you seem to use it against B737 and SWAMT and I guess every other non-affiliated forum user...Why do you want the mechanics to stay in the TWU? The IAM side has already decided that the
TWU Mechanics and maybe TWU Fleet Serice also.SWA carried the field for 90% of my career, I watch the entire industry as needed, now I get a generous raise
only because the other carriers set the bar.and the company needs Cross Utilization.

 

[767 mechanic]

I was sent this by an old friend of the board.

AA can outsource 35% of the maintenance spend, which includes line, base and shops.

LUS can outsource 50% of billable hours of heavy maintenance and components. They cannot outsource any line maintenance. But they can outsource all components.

So the total airline outsourced around 33% of maintenance not 33% of the spend.

Yes you are correct that the contract says 35% of maintenance spend. The part that your friend is not telling you is that the numbers are put out by the company and the twu has no way of confirming those numbers or penalty to company for violating that percentage. Another words the twu has to take the word of the company. With the company outsourcing all these heavy checks, mods and engine work I would be willing to bet that we are closer to 50%. The problem is that the twu has such weak scope language and they have never even attempted to change it. So tell 700 to tell the complete truth the next time. Oh as far as usair goes the back shop work is not counted against the 50%. If you were to count the back shops in that number their percentage would be closer to 68%.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Not to hijack the thread, but I am getting that feedback from some pref hired US guys hired at AA stations. Assignments from CC's leading to favoritism, disorganization, or questionable operational coverage. On the US side if Managers regularly create a daily C.F., they will be terminated or reassigned, but to remove a 30-year CC will take an Act of Congress no matter how incompetent.

i've seen incompetent crew chiefs have their pin taken away.

i know of one c/c in my career that got fired 'stealing time'. an executive board member/manning crew chief. a 'union' guy. gave himself OT every day, was never here on his OT. at the barber, at the health club or washing his car. got caught after making enemies and previously bragging about his 'OT'. if the company was on to him, they never did anything, until they 'had to'.

i've seen and heard vindictive crew chiefs tell FSCs that they will purposely "fuc( them"...FSCs going to HR and those same crew chiefs remained crew chiefs. i've heard FSCs make serious threats back. nasty stuff.

if, indeed, the laa 'crew chief' will remain, you LUS guys are in for a shock. since most lus guys are lower seniority, wait until the sheeet hits the fan.

a big problem is with CSing. a scammer c/c will CS with someone in an area controlled by another scammer c/c. the c/c on the CS will do nothing and the c/c allowing that will get reciprocation on his CS where there other c/c is the boss.

in other words, the crew is down a man..and everyone else has to pick up the slack.

i hope that NYer wasn't like that.

all in all, i blame both the union and the company for allowing this stuff at a $40+ billion company.

 

[swamt]

WeAAz, the LAA outsourcing number is a percentage of the SPEND....That can be very misleading. The bigger the spend the more outsourcing allowed.

Yes. And that 35% of spend can change at the wip of a pen by the co. saying the budget all of a sudden increased 10 fold, therefore, so does the outsourcing.
Although we all already know we do a lot of outsourcing it's not the most by far. However, with that said, our average outsourcing year over year has been an average of 68-75% in whole. There were some times in the past where they reached as high as 76-82% but was brought back to the averages after some realignments thru-out the outsourcing communities when they used the El Salvador pricing to reduce the labor hours here in the states. Now that all this reshuffle has been completed, the average is now below 75% once again. Almost always been around 72%.
I do believe we will see the average slowly tick downwards again as the El Salvador can no longer be used against the USA FBO's any longer and as they re-new their contracts the FBO's will be able to return to their higher hourly charges and the average will move lower once again. It's all a back and forth game.

 

[swamt]

I have to admit you motivated me today. Was able to get 54 cards signed in the hgr today!

That's awesome!
Keep up the great work.
Keep it alive guys with lots of advertising, discussing, media, FB, here, at work, in break rooms, on the lines, in the hangars etc...
Please don't reveal too much though. We don't want a repeat of what happened last time. Good luck guys...

 

[swamt]

I fully agree, but since you brought Crew Chief's I have a question. Why has the Crew Chief premium for the Fleet Service since the last contract
been $2.09 while the Mechanic stayed at $1.75? That is twice that Fleet Service negotiators showed favortism. The First being Half Day Sick Call
for the Mechanics but in the beginning it was the first two sick days.

Time for change Buck. Good luck in your card drive...

 

[B737 driver]

Yes. And that 35% of spend can change at the wip of a pen by the co. saying the budget all of a sudden increased 10 fold, therefore, so does the outsourcing.
Although we all already know we do a lot of outsourcing it's not the most by far. However, with that said, our average outsourcing year over year has been an average of 68-75% in whole. There were some times in the past where they reached as high as 76-82% but was brought back to the averages after some realignments thru-out the outsourcing communities when they used the El Salvador pricing to reduce the labor hours here in the states. Now that all this reshuffle has been completed, the average is now below 75% once again. Almost always been around 72%.
I do believe we will see the average slowly tick downwards again as the El Salvador can no longer be used against the USA FBO's any longer and as they re-new their contracts the FBO's will be able to return to their higher hourly charges and the average will move lower once again. It's all a back and forth game.

If yoy can keep the work in the United States, it's makes it more competitive with trying to secure the work back in house, because the cost spread is a lot closer than if it was done in EL Salvador, or Singapore.

 

[Buck]

If yoy can keep the work in the United States, it's makes it more competitive with trying to secure the work back in house, because the cost spread is a lot closer than if it was done in EL Salvador, or Singapore.

I want to congratulate B737 and swamt for being nice to each other.

 

[cltrat]

I’d like someone to explain to me the difference between the LAA cc and th Lus cc I’m an Lus cc so I can input some on that at least here where I’m at but all I get are rumors about the LAA cc, for the record I’ve heard nothing on which way it may go
This is for fleet btw

 

[B737 driver]

I want to congratulate B737 and swamt for being nice to each other.

He is not that bad, I understand wanting to get everything you feel you are entitled to. I just decided not to fight about it.

 

[Jester]

I’d like someone to explain to me the difference between the LAA cc and th Lus cc I’m an Lus cc so I can input some on that at least here where I’m at but all I get are rumors about the LAA cc, for the record I’ve heard nothing on which way it may go
This is for fleet btw

This is the feedback I am getting from several LUS fleet agents who went as pref hires with LAA, as to the differences between LUS leads and LAA crew chiefs:

1) Management shall not order or direct a clerk (ramp agent) to preform any assignment as all work related instructions must go through a CC. Exceptions being no immediately available CC or a formal superseding directive issued.

2) Unless through voluntary choice, a CC has no obligation to assist in dumping aircraft such as in-bounds or terminating flights including wing walking/marshalling, hooking-up air and power, watering or setting-up gate with equipment.

3) CC working the line shall have no obligation to either push back or wing walk during departure.

4) CC's shall not be ordered or instructed by Management to perform clerk duties, including loading or unloading aircraft, serving lavs or load carts.

5) Work daily assignments for clerks shall be handled solely by a CC control person, not Management.

6) Any previously unknown absence of a clerk or problematic work ethic shall be addressed with the CC, and the CC will address any issues at their discretion with Management, as needed.

In glaring contrast with LUS, Management always orders fleet service agents into various duties, handles the daily staffing assignments, expects Leads (CC's) to bring wands, headsets and sometimes equipment to gates, be present at arrivals and departures, and re-assigns Leads into ramp crew positions should there not be enough fleet service agents available on the ramp.

That's the largest issues and difference I have heard between Leads and CC's.

 

[conehead777]

I got news for YOU. Every Contract that comes out the Company is buying “something” from you. A question was asked and you ALL have your answer. Twist it any way you want still doesn’t matter.

And NO ONE is afraid of your never ending, go nowhere, ridiculous Card Drives ESPECIALLY not the Company. But you enjoy living in your Fantasyland man.

If no one is worried about our card drive why in the last one did the twu team up with the teamsters to screw our card drive. And the one before that had people who were dead on the company list. Your twu association spin is getting old. The company has a company union especially with sito and the twu gave in on the 04 contract with no snap back. If we had our union then we would not have gave in at least without snap back . The pilots got snap back. Weaas why do you care what union us mechanics are in. You are making top dollar for fleet at least till nov when delta gets there raise. I do not know who’s paying you to post but who ever it is needs to give you new material your a broken record.

 

[conehead777]

I dont understand why he defends the Ass its like me a Met fan arguing with a Yankee fan I dont have a leg to stand on, the Mets suck, and so does the Ass.Loyalty can only take you so far before reality bites you in the butt

Go Braves

 

[conehead777]

Who said they were blindsided? Who said they didn’t anticipate the company’s position? It appears that you are the one who is not prepared. Not prepared to hear that negotiations are time consuming and can be difficult. Not prepared to stand up and fight for what you want. But more likely, you ARE prepared to bad mouth the ones that actually are fighting FOR YOU. doesn’t take much preparation To sit back and just let others do the work.

You iam guys did nothing the twu picketed and were fighting to get out of a sham bk contract , you iam did nothing till your insurance was in jeopardy. So stop it with your bs.

 

[Steve Walegir]

This is the feedback I am getting from several LUS fleet agents who went as pref hires with LAA, as to the differences between LUS leads and LAA crew chiefs:

1) Management shall not order or direct a clerk (ramp agent) to preform any assignment as all work related instructions must go through a CC. Exceptions being no immediately available CC or a formal superseding directive issued.

2) Unless through voluntary choice, a CC has no obligation to assist in dumping aircraft such as in-bounds or terminating flights including wing walking/marshalling, hooking-up air and power, watering or setting-up gate with equipment.

3) CC working the line shall have no obligation to either push back or wing walk during departure.

4) CC's shall not be ordered or instructed by Management to perform clerk duties, including loading or unloading aircraft, serving lavs or load carts.

5) Work daily assignments for clerks shall be handled solely by a CC control person, not Management.

6) Any previously unknown absence of a clerk or problematic work ethic shall be addressed with the CC, and the CC will address any issues at their discretion with Management, as needed.

In glaring contrast with LUS, Management always orders fleet service agents into various duties, handles the daily staffing assignments, expects Leads (CC's) to bring wands, headsets and sometimes equipment to gates, be present at arrivals and departures, and re-assigns Leads into ramp crew positions should there not be enough fleet service agents available on the ramp.

That's the largest issues and difference I have heard between Leads and CC's.

That pretty much sums it up. Maybe a few other things but that's the general differences. So any guesses who's language we'll end up with?