What Exactly Has The Union Done For You?

[longing4piedmont]

SO my dear 700 Friend, I ask you..what makes me or you any better off than anyone at DL???
The Company did whatever they Damn well wanted to with us anyway, din't they??

[post="310211"][/post]​

Thank you for your thoughts on the matter. They would have been my response as well, but I would have been dismissed as an arm chair QB. :blink:

For the record I am in fact very anti-union. For the record given the management track record of this airline, I can understand the need for a union at US. I have been equally vocal in my thoughts of their performance as well and have taken the union position on a number of occasions.

What I can not however buy into is that the IAM has done anything to improve the lot of the US employee. The world has change and this union didn't want to accept that. They were willing to throw their members in the out stations under the bus to protect those in the hubs. They offered no ideas or suggestions, given the facts of the day in this industry, that would have served well the membership as a whole. You have paid your dues for nothing.

Ok 700. Why do I not understand this time?

 

[700UW]

Lets see in regard to the mechanic and related on Jan 5th the IAM M&R Negotiating Committee gave US a full and comprehensive concessionary contract proposal that met all the financial targets the company was asking for, the company rejected it.

Ask yourself, if it met every financial target why was it rejected?

It was rejected as it saved more jobs then the company wanted and kept more work in-house.

Since you claim the unions have offered no solutions please provide the facts and proof, since when did you work in Labor Relations on the 2nd floor at CCY? Never saw you there.

This management team wanted what they wanted and how they wanted it so it never mattered what any union offered them as they knew Judge Mitchell was in their pocket and would give them anything they asked for.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Never saw you there.

[post="310223"][/post]​

You are so predictable

Oh yeah I forgot about the straw man proposal you threw up so you could say "oh look at us, we want to work with you". In fact the proposal was nothing but more protecting of the good ole boy IAM network. Your savings were a sham and every one knew it.

Next?

 

[calibrator]

Lets see in regard to the mechanic and related on Jan 5th the IAM M&R Negotiating Committee gave US a full and comprehensive concessionary contract proposal that met all the financial targets the company was asking for, the company rejected it.

Ask yourself, if it met every financial target why was it rejected?

It was rejected as it saved more jobs then the company wanted and kept more work in-house.

Since you claim the unions have offered no solutions please provide the facts and proof, since when did you work in Labor Relations on the 2nd floor at CCY? Never saw you there.

This management team wanted what they wanted and how they wanted it so it never mattered what any union offered them as they knew Judge Mitchell was in their pocket and would give them anything they asked for.

[post="310223"][/post]​

700...I'll give you the fact you are passionate about your beliefs and consistent, for that I have to respect you.

Unions are very misplaced in today’s business world. They no longer fit into the corporate way of doing things and have become the loathing point of many non-unionized workers, millions in fact and why union drives never get off the ground these days.

In the 80's I worked at a small business that had the IAM, still have the card as proof with the name of the union official being pretty famous back then. Now remember this was in the 80's; what happened was we were "forced" to sign a ten year contract at a measly twenty cents increase yearly. We all voted it down, the IAM “leaderâ€￾ came back to us at a "special" meeting and told us that we needed to revote, just like what happened with the IAM at U; we voted again. We were told at that special meeting that unions no longer have the bite they had years ago so we "must" accept what we were being offered. It went thru the second round, just like it did at U. This was the IAM, it's on the record books as proof. This is the fighting IAM you proudly defend even though it makes you look extremely foolish. I am not calling you a fool, I am simply stating "facts" the kind of "facts" you like to shove down everyone’s throat who don’t glorify the IAM.

What most folks are failing to see is the fact that both corporate America and the unions are made up of mortal men and women who by nature are corrupt. This fact is also on the record for all to read about. So now you have two sides pointing fingers blaming each other when they both need something they think they don't. It seems never ending but it will end, and it won't be the unions or corporate America that saves the day. Until such time the score card is 10-zip with corporate America ahead and still climbing all over the "once" powerful antiquated unions.

 

[700UW]

You are so predictable

Oh yeah I forgot about the straw man proposal you threw up so you could say "oh look at us, we want to work with you". In fact the proposal was nothing but more protecting of the good ole boy IAM network. Your savings were a sham and every one knew it.

Next?

[post="310243"][/post]​

How mature.

Please provide facts that it was a shame? Funny the economists costed it out to the penny and it was right on the money.

And it did call for layoffs, so how did it protect?

And the idea is to preserve as many jobs as possible so people can work and provide for their families, you are apparently clueless and blinded by your irregular thought process.

Until you provide facts, I am done with you as you are not an employee nor a union member and have no clue of what you speak about.

 

[Schatzee]

As far as CWA, they have really done NOTHING for the employees except to keep our pay at 17.00 per hour through the paycuts. Other than that they are no better than the blooksuckers at CCY.

 

[longing4piedmont]

How mature.

[post="310248"][/post]​

There you go again..... You really are predictable aren't you?

Until you provide facts, I am done with you as you are not an employee nor a union member and have no clue of what you speak about.

[post="310248"][/post]​

Good, now we may all get a break from the failed IAM mantra. With your debating skills, no wonder the IAM took all those wage and benefit concessions. But hey, you managed to protect your job, didn't you?

Give it up man. Every time you post you just remind all here what a failure the IAM is. You would do better to not post at all.

 

[calibrator]

There you again..... You really are predictable aren't you?

Good, now we may all get a break from the failed IAM mantra. With your debating skills, no wonder the IAM took all those wage and benefit concessions. But hey, you managed to protect your job, didn't you?

Give it up man. Every time you post you just remind all here what a failure the IAM is. You would do better to not post at all.

[post="310250"][/post]​

Amen

 

[700UW]

Gee so I guess, ALPA, AFA, CWA, IAM and TWU are all failures.

And don't let the fact that US was in bankruptcy and had to use a judge and unfair laws to achieve concessions, they could not use a level playing field.

But I see how you dodged answering any questions poised to you.

Typical anti-union dribble, avoid the issues and just try to attack and deflect.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Typical anti-union dribble, avoid the issues and just try to attack and deflect.

[post="310255"][/post]​

Just got to have the last word don't you?

Until you provide facts, I am done with you as you are not an employee nor a union member and have no clue of what you speak about.

[post="310248"][/post]​

Guess not....... Welcome back!

 

[longing4piedmont]

Gee so I guess, ALPA, AFA, CWA, IAM and TWU are all failures.

[post="310255"][/post]​

No, I think given what they had to work with the AFA actually did a great job.

And don't let the fact that US was in bankruptcy and had to use a judge and unfair laws to achieve concessions, they could not use a level playing field.

[post="310255"][/post]​

And you and yours didn't know those were the rules going in? If not, you had no business sitting at the table.

But no, your mantra was "full pay to the last day" and my personal favorite "the concession stand is closed". You planned on sticking it were the sun didn't shine in regards to management. Well maybe we ought to ask the IAM membership in say GSO how it felt when the management of US did the very thing to them. Yeah the concession stand was closed all right, right after you rolled over on your "brothers"

Typical anti-union dribble, avoid the issues and just try to attack and deflect.

[post="310255"][/post]​

Hey, I got all afternoon if you want to keep playing the game......

 

[PITbull]

Longing,

I am really sorry you have such low opinions of the unions and the work they do or even try to do. Unions are not about leaders, as those come and go. Unions are about the workers, and obviously when you make blanket statements for the record that you are anti-union, you are implying that you are anti-employee, and hate that they are organized as a unit.

700 is very correct. If you are going to attack the IAM for not holding the "bar", then you are again implying to me that all unions threw their members under the bus. None of the unions were on a level playing field in Bk. The working family doesn't have a chance when a Co. uses the BK model as a business plan. The laws are not set up to protect the worker.

I don't understand some the the customers on this board. One minute they are saying that all of us should do whatever we can to save our company and give concessions because that is the new reality, and then, SLAM the unions for ratifying these agreements, and blaming the leaders for all the woes of labor, leaving the executives and BOD completely off the hook with no accountability for running an operation into the ground.

Who is in control here?

This IS THE reality. USAirways did not survive. Even with all the rounds of concessions and BK in 36 months. AWA survived, changed their name to US Airways and took some of the employees of the lost legacy. And that is only for the moment. More loss of jobs are to come in the next two years and it will be coming out of the East operation.

And, if there were no contracts and no unions, none of the employees from the East would have jobs today. The new US Airways would have made you reapply for the job and hire off the street looking for younger, junior workers.

I know it, you know it, and all of the employees know it. Parker is not special and doesn't have a plan to change the culture on the East. HIS plan is to integrate AFTER he has eliminated more jobs and captures the cost savings gained in Glasses contracts. After all, he hired Glass as a consultant to stay on to ensure that the cost savings is captured and lives on after integration through 2012.

The f/as at AWA should not be focused on seniority, as in 2 years f/as on the East will have retired or leave with all the programs we have in place to eliminate workers with incentives. Their managment has done nothing to educate their f/as on this issue nor their union reps. In fact, I believe their management is to blame for pepetuating division of our groups on purpose, so that their f/as lose thier footing on their own negotiations by taking their eye of the ball, and focusing on the issue of seniority.

THEIR FOCUS SHOULD BE ON COMPLETING THEIR SECTION 6 NEGOTITAIONS TO CAPTURE IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY SO DESERVE. And WE on the EAST will help them accomplish this.

 

[700UW]

Very well spoken Pitbull, I agree with you 100%.

And to Longing, it is not a game it is people's lives. What do you call your precious FFOCUS? That is a union of FF who got upset when US changed your precious perks.

Keep dodging the issues.

 

[longing4piedmont]

sorry for the dupe

 

[longing4piedmont]

I am really sorry you have such low opinions of the unions and the work they do or even try to do. Unions are not about leaders, as those come and go. Unions are about the workers, and obviously when you make blanket statements for the record that you are anti-union, you are implying that you are anti-employee, and hate that they are organized as a unit.

[post="310262"][/post]​

Not true and you know it. There are few who are willing to stand behind or beside the frontline employees as the customers who post here. Yes, we both know I'm anti-union. But I have just as often stated the I believe Management is equally at fault and have taken them to task publicly as well as on this board.

This little dialog is the result of the post on the PHL thread. The crap of management has violated my contract has to stop or there will be nothing left. I don't care who is at fault. It simply has to stop. The approach didn't work in the past and it is not going to work this time.

700 is very correct. If you are going to attack the IAM for not holding the "bar", then you are again implying to me that all unions threw their members under the bus. None of the unions were on a level playing field in Bk. The working family doesn't have a chance when a Co. uses the BK model as a business plan. The laws are not set up to protect the worker.

[post="310262"][/post]​

Again not true. I have tremendous respect for Teddy and what her group did to protect those they represent. I strongly believe that AFA leadership is the ONLY union leadership that cares for its troops. They showed it time and time again.

I don't understand some the the customers on this board. One minute they are saying that all of us should do whatever we can to save our company and give concessions because that is the new reality, and then, SLAM the unions for ratifying these agreements, and blaming the leaders for all the woes of labor, leaving the executives and BOD completely off the hook with no accountability for running an operation into the ground.

[post="310262"][/post]​

Again not true. I am speaking strictly about the IAM here time and time again.

This IS THE reality. USAirways did not survive. Even with all the rounds of concessions and BK in 36 months. AWA survived, changed their name to US Airways and took some of the employees of the lost legacy. And that is only for the moment. More loss of jobs are to come in the next two years and it will be coming out of the East operation.

[post="310262"][/post]​

Sorry to say I agree with you. Maybe some one will start with cleaning house in PHL and get some folks who want to work.