What Do The Pilot's Gain,

[PITbull]

PITBULL..... You just don't get it. MAA employees are all new hire employees. Everyone started at year #1 pay, everyone recieved training pay and no vacation the first year.


You need to embrace both need and reality and the fact that they are ever changing.

So just so we are clear: MIDATLANTIC IS MAINLINE, PAID FOR BY MAINLINE, MAINLINE EMPLOYEES, MAINLINE GATES, MAINLINE RES, MAINLINE OPERATING CERTIFICATE, AND MAINLINE CALL SIGN......

[post="187674"][/post]​

Wholesale,

Here's what I get.........

First off, YOU ARE INCORRECT IN YOUR VERY FIRST LINE!The f/as on MAA started in 5th year pay AND THEY ARE NOT NEW HIRES!

The training pay was negotiated by YOURS TRULY along with the MAA committee and the compaNy would not give vacation even while we stood on our heads to get it!

Secondly genius, and JUST SO WE ARE PERFECTLY CRYSTALL CLEAR...
let me adjust your CLOCK...MAA IS NOT MAINLINE. What MidAtlantic is...is NOT EXPRESS.

The only correct statement you made is that MAA is paid for lock stock and barrel, fuel and all, BY MAINLINE BY MAINLINE EMPLOYEES!

And lastly so you don't ever forget it....what WE negotiated for ya, so that YOU did not have to apply for the job...IS ONE SENIORITY LIST.

You will be the FIRST to have "recall"rights to mainline, before express and OFF the street folks. WE also negotiated that you could NOT be displaced to the street if more senior furloughs accur. These folks will get slotted in WHEN THERE IS AN OPENING.

NO need to thank us now...we'll take it later when you cool off and realize THIS REALITY AND NEED FOR MAINLINE SUBSIDIZING TO GET YOU YOUR AIRPLANES!!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

SoldWholeSale:

Your point is valid and management does want to keep the 282 fleet intact, if possible. I have talked with a key creditor who indicated the Board actually desires to increase Group 2 aircraft to about 320 aircraft over time.

Separately, I did not attend the confidential briefing on the 8% versus 4% profit margin presentation to the union's. I was told of the two plans, which did not proivde details due to non-disclosure requirements.

Here's the key: a rejection of the current TA will further shake creditor confidence in the ability of US Aiways to survive, which could trigger some EETC holders to repossess their aircraft. This could create a domino effect and cause a material downsizing of the airline.

Let's hope for all employees sake this does not happen.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[insp89]

Ahhh yeah, I think they are dragging it out, the RC4 at least. The Negotiating Committee they pickjed out came up with a tentative agreement, that they had direct input into, and then after the T/A is reached, the RC4 make multiple motions to delay MEC approval of the document...

Leading all the way to a meeting next week. One last chance to agree to send it out to the pilots before the 1113e motion is placed before the court.

What would you call it, "being in a hurry"...?

[post="187684"][/post]​

Ahhh, What about putting something on the table worth voting for ?? If you remember, ALPA was close to an agreement BEFORE bankrupcy, only to have items piled on as a responce..

 

[ClueByFour]

It’s going to be interesting watching the RC4 and some NC member’s squeal in jail, but it will not hurt too much.

Largely because nobody will actually be in jail, of course.

Please let us know (with a cite) what portion of 18 USC or any other applicable laws have been broken, which jurisdiction, prosecuting entity, etc.

I have talked with a key creditor who indicated the Board actually desires to increase Group 2 aircraft to about 320 aircraft over time.

Stop the spin. Airbus wants to sell more 320s. That's not a huge revalation, nor does it indicate any confidence in the current management or plan, as Airbus has the most (or second most) to potentially lose in the short term if US folds.

 

[USA320Pilot]

USA320Pilot comments: For any person who wants to understand the criminal and civil charges that will be forthcoming regarding the RC4 and possibly the Negotiating Committee, I encourage you to contact Mike Abram, Esq. of Cowen, Weiss, and Simon. This firm has represented ALPA for 60 years and Abram has worked for labor for over 30 years. He is a Valevictorian, a Harvard Law School graduate, and is considered brilliant.

Earlier today retired US Airways Captain and ALPA Negotiator Lew Laurito told pilot's on the ALPA forum in a post titled, "An observation from someone who worked with Mike Abram's (Cohen, Weiss, and Simon)," the following information:

"Cohen, Weiss, and Simon have represented ALPA for 60 years. There are htousands of Corporate law firms but relatively few labor law firms, its the money, companies have deeper pockets," he said.

"I worked with Mike Abrams from 1993 to 1996 as a member of the negotiating committee. He is without question the most intelligent and trust worthy individual I have ever met. In addition, he is one of the nicest persons you could ever have the fortune to come in contact with. He has no equal in the field of airline contracts," Laurito noted.

Laurito said, "Let me crystallize it for the dense and uninformed. Get down on your knees every night and thank the Lord ...that Mike Abram's does not represent the Company...a guy driving a Wonder Bread truck would be better off than you."

USA320Pilot comments: Again, I encourage every person to contact the MEC or Abram's and ask him what could occur to the RC4 in criminal and civil court.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

P.S. The information obtained on this subject was obtained from Internet postings and due to non-disclosure requirements, I cannot comment further, but you can contact Abram's.

P.S.S. The RC4 have ignored Abram's recommendation, but last week the NC asked him to join negotiations and for his direct input.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

PitBull........I want some of what you're smokin!

The fuel, res, and ground handling for Mesa are also paid for by mainline. As for whether or not MAA is mainline, ask the CMO (certificate management office(FAA)) whether or nto MAA is mainline.....

Since I happen to work for MAA (we call it MDA), I can tell you with 100% certainty that I was hired at first year pay, no bias to time served, no vacation, and paid new hire training pay until finished with training. Also, my time here will not credit towards longevity if/when I am recalled to mainline. Also, just to continue down the chrystal clear path, new employees at MDA do fill out applications and I would have been recalled ahead of the express employees no matter whether you had raised your mighty staff or not.

As for the things negotiated by "Yours truelly", you should hang your head in shame, even Mesa pays better than MDA..... The inability of mainline furloughees to bump & flush wasn't the idea of the unions, I was there as well .

So, those aircraft, are on the mainline ops specs. They are managed by the same management mainline is managed by, we answer to the same POI, and wear the same uniform. The only thing we don't share is the entitlement attitude. They are an integral part of the recovery plan of the airline, and they may be your future.... Can't wait to see ya over here!

 

[PITbull]

Dear Whole Sale,

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong....and you were NOT in MAA negotiations NOR did you get to vote on the winter restruc. agreement that basically ratified work rulles/ wages and benefits of American Eagle. However, we were able to negotiatie some improvements to the workrules, and the MEDICAL was strictly, and fiercely negotiated to have you covered from day 1.

No sparky, you wouldn't have had that luxury. AND NO ONE FILLED AN APPLICATION FOR HIRE. You are confusing the packet that had your finger prints and background check requested to start.

YOU come from mainline, BUT you are not mainline!

There is a FENCE up between MAA and Mainline.

Here's what that means:

WE can't fly your little jets; and you can't fly our big jets. Perod.

Your management is inclusive along with c/scheduling.

The payroll system is separate as well.

All MAA does to mainline IS RAISE OUR CASMS, because of your small jets. Even Bruce Lakefiled admitted that.

MAA shares a certificate with mainline for now, only because the company could not receive a separate certificate in a timely manner last year. That is why MAA went from "wholly owned" as negotiated in the summer restruc. to "division".

There will be no growth for MAA, unless labor gives. And there will be NO MAA if the co. liquidates.

You can press that "restart button" until you're blue, and argue all day long about it. It won't change what IS... That's your reality.

Rant over.

 

[BostonTerrier]

USA320Pilot comments: For any person who wants to understand the criminal and civil charges that will be forthcoming regarding the RC4 and possibly the Negotiating Committee, I encourage you to contact Mike Abram, Esq. of Cowen, Weiss, and Simon.

[post="187699"][/post]​

USA320Pilot,

Please be so kind as to actually answer the question put forth. You have relentlessly stated in numerous posts that certain ALPA representatives will be charged both civilly and criminally for various offenses. Yet you are almost wholly unable to put forth a cogent legal analysis, and revert to referring people to contact the above mentioned legal counsel.

So please indulge and answer the question in its entirety. It seems only right given how freely you forecast your coworkers in prison.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

You are one bitter Cart-Tart! Since you don't work here, you would probably know a lot more about the hiring process than someone like myself who actually does.

Beauty of having an alias in a chatroom is, you just never know.....

 

[ClueByFour]

Okay, so there will be lawsuits and jail time, but we can't know how or why, and I have to call a brilliant Harvard lawyer to get the simple title/code/section cite for what law was broken?

Much of an above post tried to swing the point of my original query, and even that failed: presumably, if Abrahms has worked labor-side law for 30 years, he's never prosecuted any violation of 18 USC et al, nor would anyone representing ALPA national suggest in open session (or anywhere else) that one of it's member or members has committed a felony--as anyone who is a "brilliant graduate of Harvard" will tell you, it's a really quick way to get disbarred, sanctioned, and sued quite quickly.

In other words, the whole thing does not even pass the "smell" test, and you don't have to be Harvard graduate, ATP holder, or a US Attorney to see that.

 

[PITbull]

You are one bitter Cart-Tart! Since you don't work here, you would probably know a lot more about the hiring process than someone like myself who actually does.

Beauty of having an alias in a chatroom is, you just never know.....

[post="187720"][/post]​

Who actually does what???? Hiring?

I know your contract inside and out..upside down, right side up. Do you?

WE shall see tomorrow...just what you know!

 

[CapnCockroach]

"Cart-Tart" Hadn't heard that one before. Damn that's funny. Is that anything like "CatRancher"?

Then again over here there is "Sparky" and "Sparkless".

God, I love this thread!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

I signed a non-disclosure agreement and I am not going to violate the terms. Ask a MEC Rep or ALPA's Counsel.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

So that we are clear: innuendo and accusation is okay--proof requires an NDA?

 

[PITbull]

I signed a non-disclosure agreement and I am not going to violate the terms. Ask a MEC Rep or ALPA's Counsel.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="187730"][/post]​

USA320,

Let me get this straight...ALPA is planning on suing the ALPA RC4, but they gave you a non-disclosure agreement, even though YOU hold no ALPA office. However, they say its ok for you to come on this board and give the gnerality of suits and criminal wrong doing, but no specifics....

Ah, that's a good one, USA320. Yea, a signed disclosure statment takes you off the hook on here...ok, whatever sparky....