What Do The Pilot's Gain,

[luvn737s]

Why block a vote?

Because the company will come back again in 3 months and say fuel is too high, you gotta pay up. Bronners babbling in the press will convince those few vendors willing to gamble that they should hedge their bet and take their money off the top in the form of higher fees and lease rates. Again, ya gotta pay up. The pilots will be paying for the fuel and airplanes to support a transformation plan that will incrementally eliminate more and more jobs and make the remaining ones intolerable. There is very little that can be done at this point to salvage USAir that is much better than scrapping the place and starting over.

That being said, these men are willing to see to it that those delusional pilots who think corporate prosperity will come as a result of their personal poverty don't allow this poison to spread beyond USAir.

Will the pilots vote in a substandard TA? Let's see the results of a strike vote first and then decide how desperate this group is.

 

[Rico]

Guess you missed the moderator's request not to quote entire posts, especially long ones Mrwere.

But even though "It is very apparent to (you), and others who understand what the fragmentation crap is all about", that you must have little understanding of bandwidth limitations websites such as these have (or must pay $$$ to exceed).



Anyways, what exactly is you beef now. Are you saying this TA is dangerous because does not have fragmentation rights in it...?

Actually, it only suspends fragmentation rights for BK and one year afterwards, along with the Min Fleet count. So if we have to be right back at/above the fleet size mainline is at nowadays due to the same agreement...,

And if this TA is not sent to the pilots, you realize the 1113e motion also asks to suspend the fragmentation rights in our CBA. Do you think the judge is going to hamper a creditor by requiring you to go along with a bunch of used planes.

So what is your point...?

This is part of the reason it would have been a good idea to get an agreement outside of BK. Granted people will claim that the company might have petitioned for a waiver anyways...

But how exactly is taking the chance that they "might of" come back for more a better thing than the certainity that "they already have"...?


Duh...! :blink:

 

[mwereplanes]

Does standing up for your profession have any meaning to you?

Apparently not. The pilots are not the problem. Fragmentation rights and a DC plan are not needed to run this airline. What is it that you don't understand about that?

mr

 

[PITbull]

What pride is there in forcing 28,000 employees out of a job?

[post="187451"][/post]​

Jack....

We are all already out of jobs..

The ALPA fragmentation and scope is g-o-n-e in their T/A. There is a reason that this management chose to place that on the table. The company does not want their hands tied, if they decide to sell off the airline. And the company is worth more without the employees to go along with the work.

That language actually protects all of labor, if the airline is pieced off, and there is no protections for the pilots to go with the work, there is a domino effect.

This company wants all of labor to sign off, so they can build MAA by labor subsidizing it, and then sell off the rest with labor at mainline out the door.

NO THANK YOU.

 

[us10]

Does standing up for your profession have any meaning to you?

Apparently not. The pilots are not the problem. Fragmentation rights and a DC plan are not needed to run this airline. What is it that you don't understand about that?

mr

[post="187602"][/post]​

mr,

Fragmentation rights are gone,Minimum aircraft gone,Contigent acquisition rights gone and the DC plan gone.These things are GONE you can pound your chest all you want it won't bring them back!

You have been told over and over this would be the result of not striking a deal earlier.Management is now the negotiating committee for the lenders and creditors.the creditors/lenders are trying to protect themslves not you and me.

What is it that you don't understand about that?

US10

 

[PITbull]

US10,

I personally understand and get it.

This company does not want mainline employees. Period.

They made it impossible for any leadership to SEND out the proposals and back ratification. Everytime we attempted to strive toward the cost targets...they moved the line.

No one takes the first proposal as a T/A. The company said consentual agreements, and every single labor group, specifically ALPA thought they could trust Lakefield.

WRONG, Wrong, Wrong...again.

If there can be no consensual agreements, then the judge decides whether it is in the best interest of the creditiors, ATSB, and employees to BUST THE UNIONS by his own hand.

If that happens...IT WILL BE THE JUDGE THAT DECIDES THERE WILL BE NO COMPANY, CAUSE YOU WILL NOT HAVE A WORK FORCE LEFT.

 

[Rico]

Yeah they will, it is called Midatlantic. <_<

Notice that we have not had any cuts proposed. Notice how we have been kept separate. Notice how Midatlantic is starting to hire it's own people to work itself.

All they have to do it to hit the reset button, and when US Airways 3.0 boots up it will look more like Midatlantic and less than What you remember Airways as having been.

Do not kid yourself into thinking that they do not have a backup plan...

 

[us10]

US10,

I personally understand and get it.

This company does not want mainline employees. Period.

They made it impossible for any leadership to SEND out the proposals and back ratification. Everytime we attempted to strive toward the cost targets...they moved the line.

No one takes the first proposal as a T/A. The company said consentual agreements, and every single labor group, specifically ALPA thought they could trust Lakefield.

WRONG, Wrong, Wrong...again.

If there can be no consensual agreements, then the judge decides whether it is in the best interest of the creditiors, ATSB, and employees to BUST THE UNIONS by his own hand.

If that happens...IT WILL BE THE JUDGE THAT DECIDES THERE WILL BE NO COMPANY, CAUSE YOU WILL NOT HAVE A WORK FORCE LEFT.

[post="187613"][/post]​

PB,

All your telling me is your "leverage" has been reduced to threatening to commit suicide if the judge abrogates your contract.At this stage of the game there is no wiggle room. Management can't reduce the ask and the judge will protect the creditors.The lenders and creditors operate on a risk/reward ratio.If the actions of any union pushes the risk to an unacceptable level you can count on a liquidation of the airline.

Strike the best deal possible for your members. Send it out and see if the members are willing to continue employment with U working under the revised contract.It really comes down to some very limited choices.

Good luck!

US10

 

[RedOne]

Rico,
I've asked this several times and I'll ask it again...Is this what was meant when all the correspondence states..."US Airways and CERTAIN of its subsidaries filed Chapter 11 ?

 

[USA320Pilot]

If the pilot’s reject the TA or the RC4 prevent it from being voted on by the membership, the creditor’s committee would likely demand the company implement the 150 aircraft plan, out of seniority furloughs, and no severance pay, presumably for A330, B767, and B737 pilots. Maybe Pittsburgh-based personnel could be furloughed out of seniority too.

The 150-aircraft plan has an 8% profit margin projection and the 282 aircraft plan a 4% profit margin. Every union has been briefed on both of these plans and if the creditors believe that there are labor disputes that could jeopardize their investment, they will likely repossess their aircraft per S.1110 of the bankruptcy code. This is why the company said there could be a marital downsizing and massive layoffs if the S.1113(e) motion is filed.

ALPA was provided a S.1113 letter in their TA, which the NC said was the best deal they could get. Furthermore, every ALPA advisor has said if this deal is rejected, the S.1113(e) and S.1113&copy; motion and likely contract “imposition†will be worse.

If the TA is rejected, it is likely the company will be forced to dramatically downsize, furlough of seniority, eliminate severance pay, and transform completely into a point-to-point airline similar in scope to JetBlue.

The “just say no†crowd lead by the RC4 has miserably failed and the NC agreed to a TA worse than the company’s opening and September 6 proposal.

ALPA’s advisors told the MEC in “open session†that last summer a deal could have been cut at 80 to 85% of the ask and that every proposal would get worse. Why? In bankruptcy there is an estimated loss of $100 million in passengers booking away and increased costs associated with legal and financial advisor fees. With the reduced revenue there must be additional cost cuts to enter into the business plan, POR, and disclosure statement, which is easy to understand.

There is no question that the labor leaders, lead by the RC4, are inflicting much more pain than necessary on the rank-and-file and if you do not like the current situation, then voice your displeasure to a union Rep.

Finally, the pilot’s deserve the right to vote and 4 pilot’s have no more right to dictate contract terms than anybody else.

Oh well, the RC4 made another key mistake today that is fraudulent and strengthens the pending criminal charges; as well and the Landrum/Griffith act civil action. It’s going to be interesting watching the RC4 and some NC member’s squeal in jail, but it will not hurt too much.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AAviator]

When I click on this thread, a window pops up that asks me to log onto

thehub.usairways.com

Whassat? :huh:

 

[USA320Pilot]

Mwereplanes:

It’s clear you do not understand investment banking and the creditor’s requirement to make money period. However, it will be interesting to see how you react if the 150-aircraft plan is forced on the company and the A330s, B767s, and B737s are removed from service and then you instantly get laid off with no severance pay and medical insurance.

When it happens do not complain because you and the RC4 were warned this could happen. Could that be why you are afraid to identify your self? Me thinks so…however, your I.D. is known.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

US10:

US10 said: "Strike the best deal possible for your members. Send it out and see if the members are willing to continue employment with U working under the revised contract.It really comes down to some very limited choices."

USA320Pilot comments. I and the ALPA Negotiating Committee agree with you.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AAviator]

It just happened again

 

[USFlyer]

Someone posted a link to something on the thehub.usairways.com. Those of us without logins will keep getting that pop-up.