Welcome to the AMFA board

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/28/2003 12:48:56 PM Buck wrote:

This is all about participation. If you do not want to particpate in a thread than do not do so. If an individual particpates you guys want to censor him. If this is the way you want to prevent AMFA form American Airlines, you are going about it the wrong way. DFWCC is for RV4 to lighten up. That is exactly what the TWU wants. RV4 does work the maintenance base floor. Those of you in the TWU outside of TUL, have no idea what we as those seeking change have to put up with. Those of you who are not in the union, why do you care?

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Why do we care? I guess because I''d rather see a group of mechanics that was making $65,000 still working and making $60,000 (and paying taxes to the federal, state, and local goverments) than I would see a group of mechanics who were making $65,000 end up making $0.00 and depending on government services to help them make ends meet so that the "craft and class" of the remaining employees can be preserved.

 

[Buck]

This is all about participation. If you do not want to particpate in a thread than do not do so. If an individual particpates you guys want to censor him. If this is the way you want to prevent AMFA form American Airlines, you are going about it the wrong way. DFWCC is for RV4 to lighten up. That is exactly what the TWU wants. RV4 does work the maintenance base floor. Those of you in the TWU outside of TUL, have no idea what we as those seeking change have to put up with. Those of you who are not in the union, why do you care?

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 5/28/2003 12:48:56 PM Buck wrote:

This is all about participation.

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Exactly. And there isn't a lot of participation anymore, mainly because of the continued domination of the boards by a very vocal few.

When I hear the same talk radio topic beat into the ground day after day, I change the station. There are a lot of people around here who've changed stations, and no longer participate.

You're entitled to push your agenda, as long as the folks at US Aviation are willing to put up with it.

And we're just as entitled to tell you that you sound like a radio station that plays nothing but the Dixie Chicks 24/7.

Or, we can change stations, and the folks at US Aviation start to lose money because fewer people are seeing their ads.

 

[Buck]

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On 5/28/2003 1:18:26 PM KCFlyer wrote:

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On 5/28/2003 12:48:56 PM Buck wrote:

This is all about participation. If you do not want to particpate in a thread than do not do so. If an individual particpates you guys want to censor him. If this is the way you want to prevent AMFA form American Airlines, you are going about it the wrong way. DFWCC is for RV4 to lighten up. That is exactly what the TWU wants. RV4 does work the maintenance base floor. Those of you in the TWU outside of TUL, have no idea what we as those seeking change have to put up with. Those of you who are not in the union, why do you care?

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Why do we care?  I guess because I''d rather see a group of mechanics that was making $65,000 still working and making $60,000 (and paying taxes to the federal, state, and local goverments) than I would see a group of mechanics who were making $65,000 end up making $0.00 and depending on government services to help them make ends meet so that the "craft and class" of the remaining employees can be preserved. 

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This is exactly one of the points that is trying to made. Not every mechanic makes $60,000 or $$65,000. There are many who are called OSM''s who are not at the top of their payscale and every contract or in this case concession, these people are pushed away form acheiving this goal. At what point do the mechanics take a stand on their skill and responsibility?

 

[j7915]

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On 5/28/2003 1:51:33 PM Buck wrote:

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On 5/28/2003 1:18:26 PM KCFlyer wrote:

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On 5/28/2003 12:48:56 PM Buck wrote:


This is all about participation. If you do not want to particpate in a thread than do not do so. If an individual particpates you guys want to censor him. If this is the way you want to prevent AMFA form American Airlines, you are going about it the wrong way. DFWCC is for RV4 to lighten up. That is exactly what the TWU wants. RV4 does work the maintenance base floor. Those of you in the TWU outside of TUL, have no idea what we as those seeking change have to put up with. Those of you who are not in the union, why do you care?


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Why do we care?  I guess because I''d rather see a group of mechanics that was making $65,000 still working and making $60,000 (and paying taxes to the federal, state, and local goverments) than I would see a group of mechanics who were making $65,000 end up making $0.00 and depending on government services to help them make ends meet so that the "craft and class" of the remaining employees can be preserved. 


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This is exactly one of the points that is trying to made. Not every mechanic makes $60,000 or $$65,000. There are many who are called OSM''s who are not at the top of their payscale and every contract or in this case concession, these people are pushed away form acheiving this goal. At what point do the mechanics take a stand on their skill and responsibility?

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Why don''t you go to the backshops and tell all those OSMs to quit? Suggest to Arpey that all the non-line work be contracted out, or contact your elected representatives in DC and urge them to ban all foreign repair work. Go to Nordam and unionize them, if their rates go up then in-house will look a lot more reasonable, maybe even at skilled AMT wages to strip cabin partitions. Anything else is flying in the face of competitve reality.

Remember that it was NWA that started the ball rolling, first by shielding 38% of the maintenance work from ever being grieved, and second by being the first major passenger carrier in the US to export heavy ovehaul of entire fleets of aircraft.

RV4, Buck et al, keep saying it is not a political issue, if it affects FARs and who does the work, it is a political issue. Go research the Wall Street Journal back issues for May 2003. They had a nice long front page article about work following the labor costs around the world, and a nice article on how GE would move its locomotive overhaul to China rather than Mexico, but the time delay is too great, only service jobs seem to be immune, you just can''t call a Hong Kong plumber at three in the AM, and expect him to be at your doorstep before the house flows away. Only Federal Legislation can override that.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/28/2003 1:51:33 PM Buck wrote:

This is exactly one of the points that is trying to made. Not every mechanic makes $60,000 or $$65,000. There are many who are called OSM''s who are not at the top of their payscale and every contract or in this case concession, these people are pushed away form acheiving this goal. At what point do the mechanics take a stand on their skill and responsibility?

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This is what I don''t understand - won''t these same people be "pushed away" from achieving this goal in the form of "downsize layoffs" that is promoted by the AMFA? Much of what I have read blames managment and the current union for trying to protect jobs, when the "better" way in a cyclical industry would be to layoff as needed to maintain the wage and benefits of the class and craft. Since these very same OSM''s would most likely be the first to go under the AMFA, where''s the motivation for them to even want to be in aviation maintenance?

I remember back in the 1980''s when I was working at a dairy in Ohio, a lot of my coworkers were laid off from the rubber companies in Akron. They''d get called back (at full pay), only to be laid off again in short order. After a while, many of them declined to go back, since although the dairy paid less, they had stability in their job. It seems to me that what the AMFA proposes is a "closed shop" of the most senior employees, and getting a foothold in the industry would be extremely difficult unless one was willing to accept that a layoff could (and most likely would in a cyclical industry) happen and they would be out of a job until enough "higher-ups" retired to give them a more secure position. Most of the guys in their early to mid 20''s who were newly married or starting a family can''t afford to live like that.

I notice that RV4 posts an almost daily update on the number of "signed petitions" they have recieved. Does he have a breakdown by seniority of those who have signed the petitions...and if "junior" guys have signed it, do they understand that they will be the "sacrificial lambs" to be offered up for layoffs to protect the wages and benefits of the others?

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/28/2003 2:56:29 PM RV4 wrote:




So change your station! What is stopping you?

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Nothing I guess. Tune in again tomorrow for the Buck, Bob and RV4 show. Same time. Same Place. I just thought that there are far more pressing issues facing American Airlines than who represents the mechanics.

 

[RV4]

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On 5/28/2003 2:40:01 PM eolesen wrote:

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Exactly. And there isn''t a lot of participation anymore, mainly because of the continued domination of the boards by a very vocal few.

When I hear the same talk radio topic beat into the ground day after day, I change the station. There are a lot of people around here who''ve changed stations, and no longer participate.

You''re entitled to push your agenda, as long as the folks at US Aviation are willing to put up with it.

And we''re just as entitled to tell you that you sound like a radio station that plays nothing but the Dixie Chicks 24/7.

Or, we can change stations, and the folks at US Aviation start to lose money because fewer people are seeing their ads.

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So change your station! What is stopping you?

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

"...that''s right woodchuck chuckers, it''s Groundhog Day!...."

 

[rampguy]

So change your station! What is stopping you?

Many have which is the point. I could care less if you personaly vote for AMFA or the John Birch Society. Doesn't matter to me. But you post nothing positive. Nothing. Now I haven't read EVERY SINGLE ONE of your posts but I would venture 90% of them I have read and nothing positve. Nil.
As Buck said, this is about participation and I agree but it isn't participation if the other players are shuffled aside with massive post on AMFA and how bad the TWU and Jim Little is. Let's face this fact, AMFA may be your preferred union but it isn't a panacea and and answer to all questions. If they were, they would already be the rep on the property and you wouldn't need to hard sell them.

 

[Checking it Out]

I agree with the comments. We in Tulsa have been listening to the rhetoric for the last 35 years. Their has been votes in the past and amfa has lost! But they do not go away! amfa has ran card drives several times in the last 10 years and have failed in their endevor. But the Minority insist on craming this down are throats! It would be nice if these few Individuals would realize their defeat and move on so we can. It is unfortunate! The Unions are having to put alot of effort nowadays to save our profession while amfa sends it overseas!

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[RV4]

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On 5/28/2003 8:06:03 PM Checking it Out wrote:



I agree with the comments. We in Tulsa have been listening to the rhetoric for the last 35 years. Their has been votes in the past and amfa has lost! But they do not go away!

When was the last Mechanic and Related Vote on AA Property? 1947! When was this "vote of the past" you speak of liar?

amfa has ran card drives several times in the last 10 years and have failed in their endevor. But the Minority insist on craming this down are throats!

I am not cramming this down anyones throat! Your members are participating!

It would be nice if these few Individuals would realize their defeat and move on so we can. It is unfortunate! The Unions are having to put alot of effort nowadays to save our profession while amfa sends it overseas!

What has the TWU done to "save our profession"? Become "AAmericans Real Strength"? Whatever you say wacko.

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The interesting part is how Checking is Out is on the internet defending the undefendable, yet claims there is NO SUPPORT for AMFA!

What about this?
6156 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards

 

[RV4]

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On 5/28/2003 8:34:47 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:


RV4,
Must be nice to see more cards signed, but how many more do you need to get a vote (& claim victory)? Until the TWU is ousted CIO is sort of correct when he/she states that there is no AMFA support.


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4000 More to Go. Collection started March 17th, 2003 and cards are good for 12 months.

 

[FrugalFlyer]

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On 5/28/2003 825 PM RV4 wrote:
The interesting part is how Checking is Out is on the internet defending the undefendable, yet claims there is NO SUPPORT for AMFA!

What about this?

6156 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards
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RV4,
Must be nice to see more cards signed, but how many more do you need to get a vote (& claim victory)? Until the TWU is ousted CIO is sort of correct when he/she states that there is no AMFA support.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 5/28/2003 8:34:47 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:

Must be nice to see more cards signed, but how many more do you need to get a vote (& claim victory)? Until the TWU is ousted CIO is sort of correct when he/she states that there is no AMFA support.

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All that the cards mean is that there is support for a representation election. It doesn''t necessarily mean that every card signed supports the union pushing for the election. A minority of those cards signed are just as likely to be from TWU supporters or people who might not want any union representation at all.