Warren Buffett's Comments

[Doc]

This article shows how stupid Warren Buffett is. He always makes comments about wages are to much in our industry we are the root of the problems and show LUV and other LCC’s know how to do it right. These idiots must not look at LUV’s pay scale.
He has an ax to grind pay him no mind.........



http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/09/science/...de9cc08&ei=5062

 

[cavalier]

This article shows how stupid Warren Buffett is. He always makes comments about wages are to much in our industry we are the root of the problems and show LUV and other LCC’s know how to do it right. These idiots must not look at LUV’s pay scale.
He has an ax to grind pay him no mind.........



http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/09/science/...de9cc08&ei=5062

Calling anyone stupid who has amassed the kind of capital Buffet has is well...you get the picture. I don't disagree with every point in that article. I work with people who do about two hours of work an evening and get paid for a solid eight hours and the hourly rate is very generous for the unskilled service they perform. So who's fault is that? The worker? The union? Management? The system that’s been in place for decades? Anyone’s at all? The gravy train ride is over and anyone who wasn't born an airline employee can see that with crystal clear vision. Before coming to the airlines I worked five times harder for three times less, that’s fact not fiction.
Where else can one earn what requires a college education anywhere else to push a broom? The answer, nowhere that I am aware of. So this article does have some valid points when looked at with an unbiased mind. Everyone points to the LCC's saying they make at least what we do and even more, great, but how many of them are there? If we were to follow that model then that would require a lot less employees because they don't have the work rules we do. Is this stuff hard to swallow? I think it is when you don't want to look at reality and instead want to continue to ride the gravy train into your retirement. These are the reasons I wrote the topic I started, to let people think; really think rationally about what we all are up against whether we happen to like it or not. Believing it or not believing it doesn't change reality.

 

[Flying Titan]

This article shows how stupid Warren Buffett is. He always makes comments about wages are to much in our industry we are the root of the problems and show LUV and other LCC’s know how to do it right. These idiots must not look at LUV’s pay scale.
He has an ax to grind pay him no mind.........



http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/09/science/...de9cc08&ei=5062

There's nothing earth-shaking here. Buffett has said these things many times. The lines always draw great laughs - and with his investment in U, you can understand his motivation. As for "stupid," I hope I can also develop some of his "stupid" business acumen. Face it, he's probably the greatest investor of our time and if he has something to say about business, it's not something to just dismiss lightly.

 

[FWAAA]

Buffett did admit a few years back that one of his biggest investment mistakes was ever buying shares in USAir. B)

 

[AP Tech]

Buffet did admit how he made a mistake on the U investment but with some research you will fine he made a tidy profit on his initial investment but amassed a few grey hairs along the way......

 

[pitguy]

Have you ever heard the saying "Behind every great fortune is a crime"?

 

[PITbull]

CAV,

What are you now saying, that folks who have been given a "livable wage" job, are riding a "gravey train"? WHAT REALITY DO YOU WANT TO CONVEY HERE?????

When you speak of you know folks who do two hours of work but get paid for 8,

WHO ARE YOU SPEAKING ABOUT, MAN????????????????????? So now that you have conveyed the "reality", what do you hope or plan to do about it? Anything substantial?

Unless I have totally misunderstood you in both posts....PLEASE CORRECT ME.

 

[cavalier]

Pit. I am sorry you misunderstand me, or otherwise disagree. But what I am saying is exactly what I am saying. Wearing a mask looking through the holes and not seeing reality is living in fantasy land. If you really believe everything is going to stay status-quo, no change and no one will be harmed then I am afraid you too are dreaming because it's going to happen like it or not. I have disagreed with PineyBob in the past, but I must say he makes as much sense on these boards as anyone does when he says over and over that U is NOT one’s life blood, we all have personal responsibility, everything that happens to us in life is not U’s fault. Keep on beating your drum that management must do what YOU believe is necessary, what YOU say they MUST do and it still won't change a damn thing! What's going to happen will happen and unless there is one big turnaround in this industry, no amount of bitching and moaning is going to change that fact; a fact everyone can see except airline workers who are too caught up in it to see through the fodder. I don't care if you agree or disagree with me, fact is fact and no amount of screaming at me or anyone on these boards who doesn't see things exactly like you will change a thing. Either we will take more pay cuts or there will be a lot less of us, it’s going to be one or the other and neither you nor anyone is going to change that simple fact no matter how much you disagree with me or anyone who doesn’t share your world view. If you believe things can and will stay as they are and everyone will be just fine, then I must say we totally disagree. I am in no way praising this management team, I personally wish they never came on board and feel we would be better off had they never showed up. That aside here we are, like it or not. I am allowed my opinion just like you give almost everyday on here, now you have mine, at least give it some respect . Agreeing with your every word is not a prerequisite to voice ones opinion.

 

[PITbull]

Actually CAV,

I don't have anything to say to you. But, I will tell you this, if you think I am giving more concessions to this management so you can now keep your job, I promise you, the more concessions given, the more you will see the highway.

I don't believe things should be MY way, as you put it. Never did. And as well as you know me, you should know that by now, unless you have some other intent.

My intent is not to agree or disaree with you. My action is to not respond.

 

[SpinDoc]

CAV,

What are you now saying, that folks who have been given a "livable wage" job, are riding a "gravey train"? WHAT REALITY DO YOU WANT TO CONVEY HERE?????

When you speak of you know folks who do two hours of work but get paid for 8,

WHO ARE YOU SPEAKING ABOUT, MAN????????????????????? So now that you have conveyed the "reality", what do you hope or plan to do about it? Anything substantial?

Unless I have totally misunderstood you in both posts....PLEASE CORRECT ME.

Pitbull:

The "gravy train" that is being referenced is inefficient work rules that raise costs above an acceptable level. Nobody, including Warren Buffett and Dave Siegel are saying that wages in the airline industry are unsustainable. WN proves that this is not true. It is the work rules that have been negotiated over the years that are causing the CASM to remain higher than necessary.
There is a place and time for the unions and management to find the right combination of efficient work rules and liveable wages that will sustain profitability, and it is now. The unfortunate fact is that to create the kinds of efficiencies that WN, B6, and FL have, US will have to shrink the number of employees who are performing the work. Believe me, I am not one to advocate layoffs, but in order to compete against WN, we need to be more like them and that includes increased productivity with less employees. This will keep the wages of those who remain at US in the same ballpark as WN.
It's time to for all sides to come together and beat WN at their own game.

 

[PITbull]

Spin Doc,

Your insane. CASMS are not HIGH because of labor costs. Learn the difference between the two business models, before you come on here and preach that crap.

Management was given to opportunities to change wages and work rules. They have and they are in place. We are not in section 6, and contract opening is NOT a revolving door.

Cav started this argument for reasons I can only suspect. I am done disucssing this with both of you.

My position is my position. I will not waiver, and I have never been known to be wishy washy with my thougths orexpressions, like some.

 

[pitguy]

Spin........You say time for all sides to come together to beat Southwest...

Anytime we have done that in the past we have had our lunch handed to us by Dave the New Lorenzo and his buddies. No more give backs my friend. Close the doors if you like. Then maybe we would all be better off. Sick of the lies and bull.


----I hear that kind of stuff does not happen there. They tend to treat their employees better. Maybe Dave can start trying that first.

 

[SpinDoc]

Spin........You say time for all sides to come together to beat Southwest...

Anytime we have done that in the past we have had our lunch handed to us by Dave the New Lorenzo and his buddies. No more give backs my friend. Close the doors if you like. Then maybe we would all be better off. Sick of the lies and bull.


--If you know anything about the airline business you should know we are not the same or even close to being a similar business model as Southwest.

Pitbull and Pitguy:

Fair enough. I agree that our difficulties run much deeper than labor concessions. For instance, our debt costs are much higher than WN. In their history, WN has been very smart about growth and aircraft purchasing and they did not take on more than they could safely absorb. We have had several previous CEO's that followed the mature carrier theory of growth at any cost, and those costs have become readily apparent. My point is that costs have accumulated in the past that cannot be sustained any longer. We can't reverse the poor decisions or labor contracts that were negotiated in the past no matter how much we would like to think we can. We have to find a way to compete, and if possible, beat the low cost carriers at their own game. The way to do that is to try to match their way of doing business as closely as possible. That will involve work rule changes and efficiency adjustments. The staffing in my department has been reduced 48% since September 11, while company seat capacity and workforce overall has been reduced by less than 30%. We have found ways to increase the efficiency of our office while providing the same quality service to our customers as prior to September 11. In addition, our wages have been reduced by 11%. I'm not here to pick fights. I am only putting forth an opinion on what needs to happen to enable us to compete with WN in the coming months. When WN arrives in PHL, we will either be ready to compete, or ready to give up and let them take our rightful hub.

 

[PITbull]

S&M,

Tell me this....what was management thinking when they went into our contracts twice outside of sec. 6? What was the purpose of lowering costs....to perhaps NOT compete? What? And now they decide, oops forgot, this is a business that competes, so we need more work rule changes? Are they that inept?

Or do you think they think, we forgot, or have already become adjusted to the gives??????

 

[SpinDoc]

S&M,

Tell me this....what was management thinking when they went into our contracts twice outside of sec. 6? What was the purpose of lowering costs....to perhaps NOT compete? What? And now they decide, oops forgot, this is a business that competes, so we need more work rule changes? Are they that inept?

Or do you think they think, we forgot, or have already become adjusted to the gives??????

Pitbull:
I honestly think they underestimated what it would actually take to make a profit when they negotiated with the unions on the property during BK. They were blinded by the possibility that business travelers would return and continue to pay a large premium to travel. All of the mature carriers fooled themselves into this presumption and it has manifested itself in the past few months. Fares are still too low on average, capacity is slightly higher than it should be, and the business traveler has found that there really isn't much difference between flying on WN, B6, FL, or any of the major carriers. In other words, a seat is a seat as long as the schedule is not too far off. Price is king right now. The mature carriers did not anticipate this embedded change in the business travel sector, and it as a result of overly optimistic projections, Dave and company as well as Carty, Mullin, Tilton, Anderson and Bethune got it wrong. Carty and Mullin have been shown the door for their errors and it is not unrealistic to believe that other mature carrier CEO's will also be held accountable in the coming months. Again, while I am an unrepresented employee of our company, I don't have a management decree to make waves with the unions. I am only providing perspective on what I believe it is going to take to solidify our future as a company and to ensure we can compete with WN and the LCC's in the future. Dave and company have made some mistakes and with the stock price dropping every day, the likelihood of Dave remaining at the helm is decreasing. The company will be bringing forth a new business model in the next 30 days. It is up to the union representatives to help the plan make it to reality. While the plan may involve employees working much harder to make the same amount of money, and some loss or reassignment of the workforce, in the long run, I believe it will be the foundation that makes US Airways competitive in an increasingly difficult environment and will preserve the most jobs possible.