USAPA Files

[Piedmont1984]

Once again, for the umpteenth time and for the benefit of those who did not listen or chose not to hear what Kirby stated.

The Nic Award can only become a reality if it is ratified by the pilots, incorporated into a negotiated joint contract, accepted by the rank and file.

As long as 3000 of us East of the Mississippi vote no whenever the award appears in it's present form, it has no life.

Whether ALPA stays or goes - and I prefer it goes - all those West of the M need to realize that without some compromise, the arbitrator handed you a hollow victory.

 

[prechilill]

Once again, for the umpteenth time and for the benefit of those who did not listen or chose not to hear what Kirby stated.

The Nic Award can only become a reality if it is ratified by the pilots, incorporated into a negotiated joint contract, accepted by the rank and file.

As long as 3000 of us East of the Mississippi vote no whenever the award appears in it's present form, it has no life.

Whether ALPA stays or goes - and I prefer it goes - all those West of the M need to realize that without some compromise, the arbitrator handed you a hollow victory.

Only problem for your position is the company cannot rewrite an arbitrated award and the RLA does not, in the end, require ratification of a labor contract through a popular vote. I am sure you are well aware of these facts, as well as the USAPA geniuses. One way or another the Nicolau list will be implemented.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Only problem for your position is the company cannot rewrite an arbitrated award and the RLA does not, in the end, require ratification of a labor contract through a popular vote. I am sure you are well aware of these facts, as well as the USAPA geniuses. One way or another the Nicolau list will be implemented.

Apparently your own MEC doesn't believe this, or they wouldn't be talking to the East MEC. Since the seniority issue is really a union matter, it seems to me that the union would be able to reorder things as the majority want, just like arbitration was an option which was confirmed through contract ratification by the majority of the union members. The reality is that the company really doesn't give a hoot what the seniority list looks like, as long as the pilots get along and fly their airplanes.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

My point is USAPA is soliciting cards on the notion of getting the Nicalou award overturned, which is not going to happen.

So they are deceiving the pilots.

No we're not. If you would take the time to look at the website, really look and read it all, it is not about the award only. Which I believe that is what you're trying to twist, again, ad nauseum. Give it up, it won't work for you. Besides, you have no reason to be in this fight since it really doesn't affect you.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Only problem for your position is the company cannot rewrite an arbitrated award and the RLA does not, in the end, require ratification of a labor contract through a popular vote. I am sure you are well aware of these facts, as well as the USAPA geniuses. One way or another the Nicolau list will be implemented.

Granted, the contract could be a cram down, in which case USAPA wins for sure. Once we are outside the ALPA umbrella, a change of venue so to speak, all bets are off regarding the Nic Award.

Here is what I am afraid of - that the two MECs actually reach some compromise regarding the award that satisfies the senior F/Os out east. Will make it much tougher to win an election.

So I hope that Johnnie Mac doesn't budge.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ahhh haa. Now we are getting deeper into the real reason for USAPA- bitterness over a floundering career spent in the right seat, waiting and waiting for that elusive upgrade that never seemed to come.
"But wait, with America West buying us, and being hired before any of those whipper-snappers means I will get the next upgrades on their equipment! Finally. Justice!"
"Oh, wait, that didn't happen. Ah jeez, those seats were mine for the taking! What should I do???"
"Hey, I know. Let's start a new union and redo the seniority list just for this merger- forget any mergers in the past because that is history and I don't want to redo that part of the list, only the deal with America West pilots. We'll leave the shuttle guys alone and stuff. Hey, we can even overturn the arbitrator's award (even though we agreed to it) and block all the west guys out of any union jobs because we have more numbers than they do. Then if we get another furlough all the west guys will be furloughed first! What a great idea!"

I really hope you mean that, as it proves once again your spin and rhetoric is total BS. Now, if you had kept your ideas focused on what was being discussed you would understand. The topic line was about how a furloughee could bump a west capt. on recall. I just showed you he/she can't. Any questions?

Now for the latest you added to the spin, we don't want part of what you brought to the table. Plain and simple. But we're not going to give you our attrition upgrades either. Got a solution? Doubt it. Does ALPA? No. At least with USAPA we will have a chance to find one.

As for the rest of that post. Even more BS. Give it up. It won't work for you and you know it. So who are you trying to convince with that? The fence sitters? Your own people? Yourself? Because deep down you really know that ALPA was, is and always will be the giant sucking sound to both our careers.

 

[50N30W]

No we're not. If you would take the time to look at the website, really look and read it all, it is not about the award only.

Yes it is.

How many cards did USAPA have before 5/3/07?

Did they even exist?

USAPA is about nothing more than dumping the Nicolau decision and disenfranchising the west pilots.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Yes it is.

How many cards did USAPA have before 5/3/07?

Did they even exist?

USAPA is about nothing more than dumping the Nicolau decision and disenfranchising the west pilots.

Not for me it isn't. I have no desire to disenfranchise the west pilots. I simply want my seat to go to an east pilot when I retire.

My reasons for leaving ALPA are numerous. The award was just the final straw.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

You know this whole thing could have been avoided if everyone sat down and hashed out a FAIR seniority list. You have to have fallen off a turnip truck to believe the Nicolau list is fair. Of course getting a new union will not make the Nicolau list go away; everyone knows this. BUT, a new union will keep the Nicolau list from being enacted. There's a big difference between the two.

Lastly, you have to be a moron to even conceive that those on furlough with 14 years of service will be tacked behind a 2-year new hire or that 22-year F/O's will be slotted behind people with nine years of service. Is ALPA on crack?!

The whole situation stinks/sucks and there are 3,000 plus pilots that sent in cards saying what's going on isn't right and they're not going to take it anymore.

There's a lot of blame to go around along with a lack of ethics and sense of fairness.

Whatever happens, happens.

Later,
Eye

 

[autofixer]

Yes it is.

How many cards did USAPA have before 5/3/07?

Did they even exist?

USAPA is about nothing more than dumping the Nicolau decision and disenfranchising the west pilots.

You are of course incorrect; I was one of 1500 who signed a petition to oust ALPA back in 1992. We have been trying to get this outfit off our property for 15 years.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Once again, for the umpteenth time and for the benefit of those who did not listen or chose not to hear what Kirby stated.

The Nic Award can only become a reality if it is ratified by the pilots, incorporated into a negotiated joint contract, accepted by the rank and file.

As long as 3000 of us East of the Mississippi vote no whenever the award appears in it's present form, it has no life.

Whether ALPA stays or goes - and I prefer it goes - all those West of the M need to realize that without some compromise, the arbitrator handed you a hollow victory.

Where did Kirby ever get that idea, from you? Rhetoric is free, no one really knows because there hasn't been anything to vote upon, and there likely won't be any(other than this USAPA deal) for quite some time. Whatever, I've never made much money so this is just more of the same for me.

 

[sharktooth]

Do you think changing unions will get rid of your CBA or the Award?

No one said the "nic" would be gone. It will just be placed where it can do no harm.

All CBAs and Arbitration awards are binding, the only thing USAPA will do is adminster the former ALPA CBA.

It will take a new (combined) CBA to implement the "nic".

Your comment would be true had US/AWA approved a combined agreement before the "nic" was published.

Now, not so much.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Granted, the contract could be a cram down, in which case USAPA wins for sure. Once we are outside the ALPA umbrella, a change of venue so to speak, all bets are off regarding the Nic Award.

Here is what I am afraid of - that the two MECs actually reach some compromise regarding the award that satisfies the senior F/Os out east. Will make it much tougher to win an election.

So I hope that Johnnie Mac doesn't budge.

Piedmont1984,
Kirby also told the West pilots, and I quote: "You have a lottery ticket that you cannot cash."

What part of "you cannot cash" don't the West pilots understand?

Parker, Kirby, hell, even a caveman gets that the Nicolau list is one f'd up mofo. But, the West pilots have shown their true colors and are willing to go lower than pond scum to grab seniority.

Later,
Eye

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Parker and Kirby don't know anything other than they just want the west to give in to the temper tantrum and let everyone off the hook, thats all. They don't care one whit about you, me, or fair.

 

[sharktooth]

One way or another the Nicolau list will be implemented.

Tap your shoes enough and you will get the attention of the dude in the next stall.