USAPA Files

[AAA73Pilot]

3000+ SIGNED CARDS DOES NOT EQUAL 3000+ VOTES FOR USAPA.

Let's get this vote over with. I am not a ALPA National flag waver, but ALPA is the quickest route to the next contract. If USAPA gets voted in as new representation, expect a couple of YEARS to pass before you get your next contract!!

Do you suppose that if the NMB fails to allow for a vote (for whatever reason), that those parties involved will put up the same fuss as for BINDING ARBITRATION?? Just a thought.

Your right. But we only need 1 more than ALPA. The hardest part was getting an election. As long as 50%+1 of all eligible pilots vote, then a simple majority of the voters wins.

It will be sometime in January at the earliest before the vote will occur. Why don't you try calling the NMB and ask them to move up the time line. Contract through ALPA? USAPA? your time line is so riddled with speculation, it's almost wishful thinking making it to the public domain.

No fuss. I expect the vast majority to withdraw from ALPA along with the dues money. To quote you guys, is Doug going to fire all the pilots on the east? I'll bet he's not going to kill his cash cow.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Yes we do have a plan. If you choose, you can send your questions to the USAPA leadership. The link is on the website.

No we won't be bankrupt. I know all about the lawsuits. Really, in every effort such as this lawsuits always happen. So do you really think we will not be pro-active?

Roger that. Unless you're digging deeper into your east talent pool than you have thus far, I frankly expect you guys to step on your cranks more often than not. Its kind of ironic, seeing as how the east is always touting its experience and worldliness compared to the west.

"One day young westie, you'll walk into the crew lounge, see your name on a list on the wall, get pissed for a few minutes and then move on....."

 

[sharktooth]

Well you guys aren't gonna be dumb enough to come right out and say it now, are you? If it ever gets the far, I'm sure it'll be part of the endless litigation.

Why don't you dispense with the bs that you are all inclusive? Lip service doesn't count.

For once, you are dealing with a group that has no interest in bufuing those they have to work with. Those expecting a conspiracy will be disappointed.

Please prove just one of your assertions. Ask questions, lots of questions. If it boils down to a gut feel try someone else. Send the Constitution draft to someone you trust and ask how you can be disadvantaged. If they can show you a path, make the disadvantage public and get the Constitution changed. Everyone makes mistakes. That is the nature of any group of more than one. Let us all minimize any and all misunderstandings, now.

You can only do that if you roll up your sleeves and go to work. Get others involved. This is your chance. You will no longer be dealing with some monolithic organization that has to check with their minders before tailoring legislation just for you. This is local.

 

[BajaBabe]

As a long time supporter of the workers of the USA I am so glad to see that the pilots do something anything though I fear their courage I know that you have chosen to shake up the Vatican . No longer will you be silenced by the city slickers or the Faternity of Yes Men Do or Die you can only look forward to the future. It really difficult to always be ashamed of the concialatory nods to the past. Yes you will fear the grip of your guts but the better part is that you now can alleviate the Enema administered by the elitist few RP, JS, DM, DB just to name a few if all fails you still have the protected covenrent of ALPA making it great for the sub- management few. CB you of all people should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Roger that. Unless you're digging deeper into your east talent pool than you have thus far, I frankly expect you guys to step on your cranks more often than not. Its kind of ironic, seeing as how the east is always touting its experience and worldliness compared to the west.

Luckily our talent pool was smart enough to stay away from all things ALPA. They saw it for what it was. A despicable corrupt organization only interested in its own self interest. How many more ALPA blunders do you need to participate in to finally get the ALPA message?

 

[88 B.T.D.]

One thing I do hope for, especially since all the meetings will be televised, is that the new union will dispense with all the "legal ease" while conducting business and just use spoken English.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Luckily our talent pool was smart enough to stay away from all things ALPA. They saw it for what it was. A despicable corrupt organization only interested in its own self interest. How many more ALPA blunders do you need to participate in to finally get the ALPA message?

I worked for an ALPA represented regional airline before America West, believe me I've seen just how much they care about the lesser airlines, if you will. I'm no fan. But you care about the west guys even less than Alpa does. This is just my own impression, so I'm not gonna dig up anything to "prove it", but I know a disgruntled end run when I see it. Never the less, the card drop and pending vote are legitimate, so all anyone can do is vote his conscience.

 

[EastUS]

Roger that. Unless you're digging deeper into your east talent pool than you have thus far, I frankly expect you guys to step on your cranks more often than not. Its kind of ironic, seeing as how the east is always touting its experience and worldliness compared to the west.

Well..for one thing = actual professional negotiators, not ("I are a pylut....I'm smart Mr. CEO,...really, I am...just ask me") Alpo pathetic rank amateurs, should be seen as a decided improvement I'll also not that the folks that've worked thair tails off and produced an actual Union possibility within a mere six months are pretty impressive to me as per any talent pool measurements. When/Where TF have you/I/any of us ever seen any Alpo sorts with that degree of drive and initiative?. Just to obtain a rallying mark of 3,000 pilots of predominately like mind is something that Alpo's never accomplished.

I believe that I can understand your very reasonable concerns as to how the west fits into this. To blithely claim that "no one wants to swarm west and steal from you guys, or throw you all under the bus/staple you/etc" would ring as hollow in your ears as did the earlier prolific "promises" from some west posters that "no one wants to move east"/etc. We have a gulf that's approx the proportions of the Grand Canyon to somehow bridge before any group consolidation's possible. I don't have any single magic answer, and it's merely my opinions that I voice here. I do believe, and have actual faith, that we can/will eventually work this mess out...between our respective "tribes"....but not under Alpo...the same fine folks that we can truly thank for this abortive "integration".

 

[N924PS]

Well..for one thing = actual professional negotiators, not ("I are a pylut....I'm smart Mr. CEO,...really, I am...just ask me") Alpo pathetic rank amateurs, should be seen as a decided improvement I'll also not that the folks that've worked thair tails off and produced an actual Union possibility within a mere six months are pretty impressive to me as per any talent pool measurements. When/Where TF have you/I/any of us ever seen any Alpo sorts with that degree of drive and initiative?. Just to obtain a rallying mark of 3,000 pilots of predominately like mind is something that Alpo's never accomplished.

I believe that I can understand your very reasonable concerns as to how the west fits into this. To blithely claim that "no one wants to swarm west and steal from you guys, or throw you all under the bus/staple you/etc" would ring as hollow in your ears as did the earlier prolific "promises" from some west posters that "no one wants to move east"/etc. We have a gulf that's approx the proportions of the Grand Canyon to somehow bridge before any group consolidation's possible. I don't have any single magic answer, and it's merely my opinions that I voice here. I do believe, and have actual faith, that we can/will eventually work this mess out...between our respective "tribes"....but not under Alpo...the same fine folks that we can truly thank for this abortive "integration".

The answer was the Nicolau Award with conditions and restrictions.

What is so laughable about this whole debacle, is that the same group that is so intent on removing ALPA from the property would be the first one's trying to shove BINDING ARBITRATION down the West's throat
had their position prevailed.

 

[EastUS]

3000+ SIGNED CARDS DOES NOT EQUAL 3000+ VOTES FOR USAPA.

Let's get this vote over with. I am not a ALPA National flag waver, but ALPA is the quickest route to the next contract.

Learn some real history, and then get "real". If you've fantasies that Alpo can sell some "Just give up the Nic easties, and all will be well...You'll get a brief raise before the next ten tons of bricks drops on you via a merger, or economic shift (can you say: High oil prices?...or: This is Tempe speaking...just abandon all hope!!...About those raises for you boys..umm..turns out that we need to file bankruptcy just to fully screw you all again, and deep six that silly little "contract"...thanks for the lifetime seniority surrender though)

You actually imagine some "contract" being possible within the current situation?..Sheesh. Management's currenty afforded "The Perfect Storm" within the pilot labor group. Being the great guys they are...they wouldn't dream of playing that against any need to up compensation...would they? Your best hope for some "great contract" would come from a unified body of east pilots.

 

[EastUS]

The answer was the Nicolau Award with conditions and restrictions.

What is so laughable about this whole debacle, is that the same group that is so intent on removing ALPA from the property would be the first one's trying to shove BINDING ARBITRATION down the West's throat
had their position prevailed.

Actually? What I find most "laughable" is the hapless "youthfull" ignorance, and lack of historical perspective that allows some to ascribe the east flowering of anti-Alpo fervor to be based soley upon Nic.

You establish your inner mind for ready public viewing via your assumptions. One "might" assume that you perceive Nic as something to be "shoved", although...on that, I do agree.

You make an attempted case that utter self interest must be "normal"...since that's what you imply to be the sole basis for East thinking. I disagree. I've watched this once actually RESPECTED, and well compensated Profession being continually denigrated over all the years since deregulation...without ANY effective actions, or even notions, coming from Alpo to stem the floodwaters of any/all contempt. You may be virtually "brand new" to this...but I'm tired of the BS.

 

[luvn737s]

924PS writes:
What is so laughable about this whole debacle, is that the same group that is so intent on removing ALPA from the property would be the first one's trying to shove BINDING ARBITRATION down the West's throat
had their position prevailed.

Very true, and the east has a long history of not abiding by their word, so whatever U-SAPS promises should be taken with a few million grains of salt (if any is left after the east's "salt-the-earth" policy). The west can rightly claim a record of abiding by their word that far surpasses the east, but that's of little concern to those intent on wreaking havok with their fellow pilot's livelihoods.

The real shame (or sham if you rather) is that when U-SAPS falls far short of the number of votes (somebody will remember 3000 cards, but not many will) they will continue to push for a change in union long after that change would have accomplished anything. Just like blaming ALPA for an arbitration process the east approved. Just like trying to overturn an arbitrators decision after it is rendered. The horse is out of the barn, so lets burn that bad old barn down. Makes sense, right?

Your U-SAPS leadership thinks so and they've managed to use fear and truth flexibility to con-vince 3000 pilots to send ALPA a message and them a little money.

War, just for something to do, cloaked in the excuse "We've got nothing to lose". What's it good for?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Actually? What I find most "laughable" is the hapless "youthfull" ignorance, and lack of historical perspective that allows some to ascribe the east flowering of anti-Alpo fervor to be based soley upon Nic.

I don't doubt for a second that this is not based solely on Nic, but just the same if Nic had given you your DOH/LOS straight up we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I'd put money on it. We'd get a paternalistic pat on the head from you and Prater and be on our merry way.

Anyway, this tit for tat gets old quick and my head hurts, I'm gonna bow out. Before I go I'd like to say that though I get irritated or hot under the collar from time to time, I don't have anything personal against any of you fellas. It just is what it is I guess.

 

[luvn737s]

Actually? What I find most "laughable" is the hapless "youthfull" ignorance, and lack of historical perspective that allows some to ascribe the east flowering of anti-Alpo fervor to be based soley upon Nic.

You may be virtually "brand new" to this...but I'm tired of the BS.

Many west pilots have retired at 60 so far this year, so dismissing someone you don't know as "youthfull"(sp), to me is the perfect example of ignorance.

 

[cactusboy53]

Learn some real history, and then get "real". If you've fantasies that Alpo can sell some "Just give up the Nic easties, and all will be well...You'll get a brief raise before the next ten tons of bricks drops on you via a merger, or economic shift (can you say: High oil prices?...or: This is Tempe speaking...just abandon all hope!!...About those raises for you boys..umm..turns out that we need to file bankruptcy just to fully screw you all again, and deep six that silly little "contract"...thanks for the lifetime seniority surrender though)

You actually imagine some "contract" being possible within the current situation?..Sheesh.

I would say there is better than even chance that you and many of your co-workers are shirt-tail relatives of the Captain of the Titanic. That can be the only possible answer......iceberg, what iceberg?