USAPA Files

[dariencc]

Play your cards right, you won't have to. I am certain other carriers are hiring now.

Hey Traderjake, so is McDonalds.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

By windfall you mean not letting a Reserve East F/O steal a West Captain's job.

East Pilots - the most immoral and unethical on the planet, I'm ashamed to have to work with these guys.

Your ignorance is showing and the posts from the west about a furloughee, recall, or reserve F/O stealing a west capt. position is growing tiresome. First off, we have about 2600+ active pilots from bid 08-01. How many are F/O's? Say about half for ease of explanation. Your assumption is all the current working F/O's will just let that recall leapfrog about 1300 pilots right into the Capt. seat. Maybe over my dead body or 8 years, whichever comes first. Second, to keep repeating the same spin over and over like its gospel only validates what we have been saying all along about Nic.

Immoral? Unethical? Not hardly. BTW How do you justify in your mind keeping a 20+ yr. F/O in the same seat to retirement while the younger west guys inherit all the Capt. seats flown to retirement. To me that is just as immoral and unethical! My Nic position and age does just that. So don't waste your time with that BS.

 

[aquagreen73s]

By windfall you mean not letting a Reserve East F/O steal a West Captain's job.

East Pilots - the most immoral and unethical on the planet, I'm ashamed to have to work with these guys.

Based upon the comments from the PSA/East CLT 737 Captain on the jumpseat last week, you're not alone with you sentiments - not by any stretch.

 

[dariencc]

Based upon the comments from the PSA/East CLT 737 Captain on the jumpseat last week, you're not alone with you sentiments - not by any stretch.

Yeah, and there's only about 3,000 on the other side of the fence.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Pollack did not stand for relection.

He was unelectable!!! Somehow, I wish the LEC's would have put him back in, maybe USAPA would have started a whole lot earlier.

 

[dariencc]

Pollack did not stand for relection.

It's reelection, and no one said he did. It was merely stated that he was replaced by Stephan. Care to guess why?

Under Alpa, the MEC Chairman is not elected nor recalled by membership vote. A senatorial vote of the LEC reps controls his fate.

The base LEC reps are elected/recalled by membership vote. Please note that PIT F/O Rep Tim Baker was recalled after the pension give back. This will help prevent the facts from getting in your way.

Just because someone signed a card, does not mean they will vote for USAPA or even vote at all.

Thank you, master of the obvious.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

This time ALPA doesn't have a solution, and the frogs are just jumping out of the boiling water.

Ribbit, Ribbit Now that is a good analogy. Or better yet, dead men walking (For 5 years) Gotta Match?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Your ignorance is showing and the posts from the west about a furloughee, recall, or reserve F/O stealing a west capt. position is growing tiresome. First off, we have about 2600+ active pilots from bid 08-01. How many are F/O's? Say about half for ease of explanation. Your assumption is all the current working F/O's will just let that recall leapfrog about 1300 pilots right into the Capt. seat. Maybe over my dead body or 8 years, whichever comes first. Second, to keep repeating the same spin over and over like its gospel only validates what we have been saying all along about Nic.

Immoral? Unethical? Not hardly. BTW How do you justify in your mind keeping a 20+ yr. F/O in the same seat to retirement while the younger west guys inherit all the Capt. seats flown to retirement. To me that is just as immoral and unethical! My Nic position and age does just that. So don't waste your time with that BS.

I suspect alot of east folks that wouldn't upgrade under nick wouldn't upgrade anyway. Heck, we're still not put together and you've had guys retiring from the right seat for the last several years. There is enough generalization and stretching of logic to go around, on both sides.

Under your scenario, you and your compadre fos would upgrade and keep me at the bottom of the captain list for the next who knows how long, and then after you got done half those 89 and 90 recallees flying fo would do the same thing. So for the next God knows how long I'd be hanging at the bottom. Now thats not crying, you've already lived it. But to try to at the same time right the wrong of what happened to you and transfer your misery directly to me isn't quite right either. I believe all things considered, Nicolau found a workable solution. Obviously you disagree, guess there is nothing we can do about that now but cast our votes.

Now I'm sure I got some stuff above wrong or not quite right, but most stuff on these boards fits that description. Nicolau sorted through it all, just like both of our sides asked him to. I vote no on USAPA.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I suspect alot of east folks that wouldn't upgrade under nick wouldn't upgrade anyway. Heck, we're still not put together and you've had guys retiring from the right seat for the last several years. There is enough generalization and stretching of logic to go around, on both sides.

Under your scenario, you and your compadre fos would upgrade and keep me at the bottom of the captain list for the next who knows how long, and then after you got done half those 89 and 90 recalees flying fo would do the same thing. So for the next God knows how long I'd be hanging at the bottom. Now thats not crying, you've already lived it. But to try to at the same time right the wrong of what happened to you and transfer your misery directly to me isn't quite right either. I believe all things considered, Nicolau found a workable solution. Obviously you disagree, guess there is nothing we can do about that now but cast our votes.

I retire in 8 years. How long do you have? And you're a Capt?

Voting, what a novel concept.

 

[700UW]

Do you think changing unions will get rid of your CBA or the Award?

Try again if you think the answer is yes.

All CBAs and Arbitration awards are binding, the only thing USAPA will do is adminster the former ALPA CBA.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Nicolau found a workable solution. Obviously you disagree, guess there is nothing we can do about that now but cast our votes.

No he didn't. He condemned a lot of 20+ year F/O's to permanent first officer status to retirement. While pilots with only 6-8 years sail through as Capt. to retirement.

Now I'm sure I got some stuff above wrong or not quite right, but most stuff on these boards fits that description. Nicolau sorted through it all, just like both of our sides asked him to. I vote no on USAPA.

Well, just a little bit. And you're really right about the boards. IMO Nicolau really screwed up. Obviously I vote Yes on USAPA.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Do you think changing unions will get rid of your CBA or the Award?

Try again if you think the answer is yes.

All CBAs and Arbitration awards are binding, the only thing USAPA will do is adminster the former ALPA CBA.

What's your point? This has been discussed ad nauseum.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I retire in 8 years. How long do you have? And you're a Capt?

Voting, what a novel concept.

I was an fo for 7 years, and now a captain for 3 and a half, with 20 years to go. So in a way that sounds fortunate, and it is. But by the same token I made diddly squat and got laughed at for where I worked. Despite your pain, I gather you are an fo, financially you've had me whipped until most recently. I can't help it thats the way it worked out. Do you guys resent some of your own pilots who were born in 1955 and hired in 1979? If you ask me, those are the guys with the smokin deal in all this. Relatively, I mean. Losing a pension and slashed wages are obviously severe hits I wouldn't wish on anyone.

USAPA is not gonna help you make up anything. It may make you feel better, but thats about it. Whatever floats your boat.
I'll give you USAPA guys this in any case, at least you did something. Lets just vote already.

Maybe if you get USAPA in place you can negotiate a smokin seniority list where the guy with the least time left is number one, and on down the line. Obviously I'm being facetious, but it does sometimes seem to me what you want.

 

[700UW]

What's your point? This has been discussed ad nauseum.

My point is USAPA is soliciting cards on the notion of getting the Nicalou award overturned, which is not going to happen.

So they are deceiving the pilots.

 

[prechilill]

Your ignorance is showing and the posts from the west about a furloughee, recall, or reserve F/O stealing a west capt. position is growing tiresome. First off, we have about 2600+ active pilots from bid 08-01. How many are F/O's? Say about half for ease of explanation. Your assumption is all the current working F/O's will just let that recall leapfrog about 1300 pilots right into the Capt. seat. Maybe over my dead body or 8 years, whichever comes first. Second, to keep repeating the same spin over and over like its gospel only validates what we have been saying all along about Nic.

Immoral? Unethical? Not hardly. BTW How do you justify in your mind keeping a 20+ yr. F/O in the same seat to retirement while the younger west guys inherit all the Capt. seats flown to retirement. To me that is just as immoral and unethical! My Nic position and age does just that. So don't waste your time with that BS.

Ahhh haa. Now we are getting deeper into the real reason for USAPA- bitterness over a floundering career spent in the right seat, waiting and waiting for that elusive upgrade that never seemed to come.
"But wait, with America West buying us, and being hired before any of those whipper-snappers means I will get the next upgrades on their equipment! Finally. Justice!"
"Oh, wait, that didn't happen. Ah jeez, those seats were mine for the taking! What should I do???"
"Hey, I know. Let's start a new union and redo the seniority list just for this merger- forget any mergers in the past because that is history and I don't want to redo that part of the list, only the deal with America West pilots. We'll leave the shuttle guys alone and stuff. Hey, we can even overturn the arbitrator's award (even though we agreed to it) and block all the west guys out of any union jobs because we have more numbers than they do. Then if we get another furlough all the west guys will be furloughed first! What a great idea!"