USAPA Files

[nycbusdriver]

I agree there are many on the East who feel this way. Unfortunately for them, this fact doesn't hasn't swayed the West group. Extortion is still extortion even if the extorters are willing to die for their cause. My guess is it won't ever come to that. We're not the IAM, for gosh's sake.

You're probably right. It all comes down to which side will blink first. In my 28 years here I have never seen such unified resolve on the part of the east pilots group, from the very top of the list to the bottom. We have 3000 cards that say we won't blink first.

It's a simple agreement. We don't want what you have and you can build cannon-proof walls to moon to protect it. We don't care. We just want what is ours, and you westies flat-out can't have it.

 

[P51Pilot]

I agree there are many on the East who feel this way. Unfortunately for them, this fact doesn't hasn't swayed the West group. Extortion is still extortion even if the extorters are willing to die for their cause. My guess is it won't ever come to that. We're not the IAM, for gosh's sake.

Theft is Theft, and the East is simply standing up instead of cowering under the bed. When the West tried to engage in highway robbery, they lost any moral credibility to use words like Extortion.

 

[luvn737s]

You're probably right. It all comes down to which side will blink first. In my 28 years here I have never seen such unified resolve on the part of the east pilots group, from the very top of the list to the bottom. We have 3000 cards that say we won't blink first.

It's a simple agreement. We don't want what you have and you can build cannon-proof walls to moon to protect it. We don't care. We just want what is ours, and you westies flat-out can't have it.

One can understand the resolve during negotiations. But when the arbitrator you helped pick came down with a decision that didn't agree with that resolve, then that resolve is misplaced. The football team that fights the good fight on the field, but loses is not made winner just because they break out the windows in the winning team's bus.

Suppose those 3000 folks put their energy into a great contract instead of putting themselves 30+ months behind by playing "Who's Your Union?" with management and the west?

Do you even say "Thank You" to the retirees who get the shaft by forfeiting 3 or 4 years of a much higher pay rate, just so USAPA can pretend to be a union for a little while, then go running back to ALPA ?

 

[Rico]

You guys are Nuts.

Are you really willing to give up your multi-thousand dollar subscription to Airline Pilot Magazine...?

What about those great Bag stickers, and cool little ALPA wings pin...?

You better think this through.


Lord knows the pilots at Southwest and American are regretting their choice not to be ALPA. Look how upset the Air Canada pilots have been since making that fateful choice to leave a few years ago...

And once you have left the fold, you can "never" come back. Keep that in mind.

Granted, the Continental and FedEx pilots did (after ALPA kissed their @sses and begged them enough to return), but those were examples that discredit what APLA is trying to scare you with, so let's ignore them.


This is not just about your career, it is about supporting the hefty overhead and large salaries of the ALPA National organization + leadership. Stop being so selfish and thinking only of yourselves...!!!

Prater understands your pain, and He's sorry your career is going down the tubes... But isn't his sympathy enough for you people, why do you keep demanding actual results...??? :angry:


Don't change the Status Quo that has served you so well up til now. Just keep paying your dues and assesments, and make sure to keep your heads firmly in the sand where it belongs


God save the ALPA

 

[Elevation]

Even if your cocktail napkin calculations are in the ball park, it is still less than what the east pilot pays now.

Oh forgot 1/3 of the pilot group won't be paying dues and will be draining the piggy bank at every opportunity it gets, increase USAPA dues by 30%. It just keeps getting better. Any USAPA guys come up with there funding numbers yet so the congregation can see? They won't say will they?

 

[nostradamus]

One can understand the resolve during negotiations. But when the arbitrator you helped pick came down with a decision that didn't agree with that resolve, then that resolve is misplaced. The football team that fights the good fight on the field, but loses is not made winner just because they break out the windows in the winning team's bus.

Suppose those 3000 folks put their energy into a great contract instead of putting themselves 30+ months behind by playing "Who's Your Union?" with management and the west?

Do you even say "Thank You" to the retirees who get the shaft by forfeiting 3 or 4 years of a much higher pay rate, just so USAPA can pretend to be a union for a little while, then go running back to ALPA ?

The following post has you thanking a retiree and complimenting you fellow HP pilots for their hard work.

Luvn737 post before nic fever

 

[JetMonkey]

It's a simple agreement. We don't want what you have and you can build cannon-proof walls to moon to protect it. We don't care. We just want what is ours, and you westies flat-out can't have it.

We don't want what you have neither. We want what was taken from us due to this merger. And stapling 1500 pilots (some of them captains) beneath furloughes doesn't make it better, it makes it worst.

I'm not blinking.

 

[Freighterguynow]

So what would West pilots do for representation? I'll tell you what I'd do...I'd tell
Parker that the 1700 pilots out West don't recognize USAPA as their bargaining agent,
will not participate in USAPA affairs, and if Parker wants to continue running a West
operation he'll need to deal directly with a delegation selected by the West pilots
themselves (Closed shop? What's Parker going to do, fire 1700 pilots?)

Parker will drag out the Hemmingway letter and impose LOA 93 on the West. You got no union, what are you gonna do about it?

 

[sharktooth]

God save the ALPA

Excellent but you forgot to close the tag </snark>.

 

[EastUS]

Suppose those 3000 folks put their energy into a great contract instead of putting themselves 30+ months behind by playing "Who's Your Union?" with management and the west?

Do you even say "Thank You" to the retirees who get the shaft by forfeiting 3 or 4 years of a much higher pay rate, just so USAPA can pretend to be a union for a little while, then go running back to ALPA ?

Question: Where's this "great contract" supposedly coming from?...Oz?..as opposed to Tempe? Note just how many "great contract" offers are forthcoming for the flight attendants thus far...I'm counting zero.

If you've any dreams of any "great contract"...you'ld do well to realize that a group with proven resolve's the best chance at ever seeing anything of the sort. At least there's some such being shown out east. Tempe laughs at you guys thus far = perhaps, maybe, gee whiz....all of a 3% raise..wow!

As far as "Thank You" to the retirees who get the shaft by forfeiting 3 or 4 years of a much higher pay rate,"..There's no need to do so. I'm fine with accepting exactly that possibility in order to dump Alpo, as well as keep an infestation of locusts from heading east. For "running back to ALPA"??? You're flat out joking..aren't you?

 

[Tiger 1050]

I would seriously think about this USAPA idea folks...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071114/ap_on_bi_ge/delta_united

 

[sharktooth]

I would seriously think about this USAPA idea folks...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071114/ap_on_bi_ge/delta_united

So, you are sending in your card?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Well to be honest, I do not have any love in this heart for ALPA but I can tell you that if you believe for one minute that USAPA is the way to go when it comes to these consolidation games then you are not seeing the big picture...

If DAL and UAL hook up then where does that leave us? CO or NWA or AA. Hmmm? Which one do you think is gonna respect USAPA more?

Better think about it... That's all I'm saying.

So I guess to answer your question... I would have to say... Ummm... NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!

 

[OldpropGuy]

PB said, "If one assumes that the goal is to get a fair and equitable contract then this action by USAPA is IMO the Sandcastle's WORST nightmare come true."

IMO, management will be able to run all over any independent, self-supporting, union including USAPA.

Remember USAPA will not have a national organization, consisting of tens of thousands of other pilots, to depend on for needed money. One would think that this would be the ideal situation for the "Sandcastle." Imagine negotiationg with a workforce which can't afford to strike!

There will be no ALPA Strike Assessment of all the other pilots groups, as in the past, to support any strike by the USAPA pilots, whose funds will already be in the process of being hungrily consumed by the legal system. All the company has to do is just wait and starve them out.

Sometimes one just has to stop all the, "It's everyone else's fault, and not mine" retoric and face reality. Then, usually recovery begins, and life goes on. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how ALPA national created this problem. At times I think my MEC and negotiationg committee are pretty worthless, but I don't see how I can blame that on ALPA or any other national entity.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Parker will drag out the Hemmingway letter and impose LOA 93 on the West. You got no union, what are you gonna do about it?

Wow! Great idea.

If the worsties won't play with USAPA, accede to Parker and Hemenway and tell them to just go ahead and institute LOA 93 across the board. We on the east would be no worse off than we are, and think how much money the company would save if USAPA dragged the west down to east compensation.