USAPA Files

[nycbusdriver]

You do know that right about now the folks in Tempe are crapping their pants.

The mere spectre of "Union Trouble" will damage alot of things, like stock price etc etc. Even if the ALPA maintains its position as bargaining agent you may have entered the land of unintended consequences such as DP being removed as CEO. Now many view that as a good thing.

It's a whole new ballgame now. One that is bound to get more interesting day by day.

I agree that the Law of Unintended Consequences is mighty powerful, but I don't see a lot of company nail-biting or Doogie given his walking papers (mostly $100 greenbacks...suitcases full of them.)

The effort to get rid of ALPA has little, if anything at all, to do with any company actions. ALPA has brought this whole thing on themselves, and they are the target of this effort....not the company.

I do believe, though, that Doogie is kicking himself for not being a bit more forthcoming at the negotiating table earlier on. At the very least he could have loosened the purse strings as soon as he offered to bring the pilots up to Delta pay when that buyout attempt was made public. Had he bargained in good faith from the start, then there likely would have been an acceptable joint contract in place BEFORE Nicolau dropped his turd on the east. If that had happened, there would be no stopping Nic and the final step would have been the single FAA certificate in September. IOW, Doogie could have saved himself a huge headache had he not been so recalcitrant with negotiations early on. He thought he might be saving himself a nickel with his "tough guy" stance, and he ended up dragging the separate operations on for months, even years, from now. Now THAT's the Law of Unintended Consequences at work.

 

[nycbusdriver]

November 13, 2007
Dear US Airways Pilot:

Today, a group of US Airways pilots filed cards with the National Mediation Board

..yeah...a "group" of 3000 of the 3500 pilots on the east.

...yadda yadda yadda....

If became clear to this "group" that ALPA is not only no longer relevant, but it is actively detrimental to our careers

 

[Tiger 1050]

You do know that right about now the folks in Tempe are crapping their pants.

The mere spectre of "Union Trouble" will damage alot of things, like stock price etc etc. Even if the ALPA maintains its position as bargaining agent you may have entered the land of unintended consequences such as DP being removed as CEO. Now many view that as a good thing.

It's a whole new ballgame now. One that is bound to get more interesting day by day.

Probably more likely a takeover target in the upcoming consolidation games at best... If we are represented by USAPA then I'm sure ALPA will do everything in their power to see that integration goes badly for us. Frankly, I'll be laughing myself silly in knowing the east cut off their nose to spite their face... Some people cannot seem to learn to curb their emotions... Oh well.

 

[ClueByFour]

Answer to question two is yes.

Do you have a link to illustrate the NMB made a SBA ruling?

 

[Mike]

Probably more likely a takeover target in the upcoming consolidation games at best... If we are represented by USAPA then I'm sure ALPA will do everything in their power to see that integration goes badly for us. Frankly, I'll be laughing myself silly in knowing the east cut off their nose to spite their face... Some people cannot seem to learn to curb their emotions... Oh well.

Ummmmm..ALPA really helped the TWA guys!

 

[fr8tmastr]

I do believe, though, that Doogie is kicking himself for not being a bit more forthcoming at the negotiating table earlier on. At the very least he could have loosened the purse strings as soon as he offered to bring the pilots up to Delta pay when that buyout attempt was made public. Had he bargained in good faith from the start, then there likely would have been an acceptable joint contract in place BEFORE Nicolau dropped his turd on the east. If that had happened, there would be no stopping Nic and the final step would have been the single FAA certificate in September. IOW, Doogie could have saved himself a huge headache had he not been so recalcitrant with negotiations early on. He thought he might be saving himself a nickel with his "tough guy" stance, and he ended up dragging the separate operations on for months, even years, from now. Now THAT's the Law of Unintended Consequences at work.

I agree with that 100% Greed got them again. Hopefully this will cost Doug his gravy train

 

[exB717Flyer]

Do you have a link to illustrate the NMB made a SBA ruling?

No such ruling has been made because it hasn't yet been requested. It will take place before the election.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Ummmmm..ALPA really helped the TWA guys!

Yup. And so did the only legacy carrier to spin off from ALPA: the APA. Anything's better than ALPA ... NOT!

 

[careerfurloughee]

Yup. And so did the only legacy carrier to spin off from ALPA: the APA. Anything's better than ALPA ... NOT!

Yeah, I bet the APA is kicking themselves right about now! We should have stayed ALPA. NOT!

 

[Mr Furlough]

..yeah...a "group" of 3000 of the 3500 pilots on the east.



If became clear to this "group" that ALPA is not only no longer relevant, but it is actively detrimental to our careers

"Frankly, I'll be laughing myself silly in knowing the east cut off their nose to spite their face... Some people cannot seem to learn to curb their emotions... Oh well."

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Our careers are truly threatened by the Nicolau Award (both east and west). We have all seen the compete commentary here on these boards as well as others. We see our union at a standstill on this issue since day one. There is absolutely no prevailing leadership anywhere. Result-no progress. All the finger pointing in the aviation world won't solve this, but action will. I'm proud to witness the courage of the east pilots taking action to right the ship, and am dismayed for the reluctance of the west pilots to join in.

As for ALPA National, they are not the face of the pilots on either side. They are feather bedders. And as far as they are concerned, it's time to throw some tea in the harbor. There are many instances in modern history where the little organization stuck it to the man, and prospered for it. SWA had but a handful of airplanes some 15 years ago, yet without ALPA they out earn us in every way. Continental turned their miserable airline around in the absence of ALPA. AMR, UPS, Jetblue, and Virgin America-all non alpa. Hence, ALPA is not the answer. They are a major part of the problem.

Keep laughing yourself silly, it's the best medicine. Best wishes for a rapid solution.

 

[ClueByFour]

No such ruling has been made because it hasn't yet been requested. It will take place before the election.

I'm assuming you mean the request, not the ruling itself.

 

[electricjet98]

"East Pilot Not Afraid to Speak Truth"

This is a cut and paste from the MEC board.

From: XXXXXXX
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: My Thoughts on USAPA


BOS Pilots,

I'm not a USAPA supporter, and here's why. Except for the rhetoric, I have yet to hear
the strategy that USAPA intends to use...

1. In successfully defending against the DFR lawsuit against USAPA that 1700 West
pilots plan to immediately file in Federal Court over USAPA's refusal to accept the
Nicolau award as the means of integrating the two seniority lists (and in this lawsuit,
ALPA National itself will undoubtedly be testifying that ALPA merger policy was
indeed followed, a huge advantage for the West).

The legal consensus is that the Nicolau award will follow this AAA/AWA pilot group
even with a new bargaining agent, and that the problems your MEC is dealing with
today will be the same problems that USAPA will have to deal with (indeed, USAPA
will not be bound by past ALPA merger policy, but that only pertains to future
mergers, not this one).

2. In running a Union with 1700 of its members refusing to pay dues, assessments, or
participating in any Union activities, including contract negotiations, picketing, or
committee work. Never happen? Better ask yourself this...what would the East pilots
do if this was being done to them by the West?

So what would West pilots do for representation? I'll tell you what I'd do...I'd tell
Parker that the 1700 pilots out West don't recognize USAPA as their bargaining agent,
will not participate in USAPA affairs, and if Parker wants to continue running a West
operation he'll need to deal directly with a delegation selected by the West pilots
themselves (Closed shop? What's Parker going to do, fire 1700 pilots?)

3. In securing an agreement with Parker for permanent DOH merger protection for all
future mergers with 1700 of its members in total rebellion. Moreover, these contactual
"prenups" mean nothing if the future merge partner refuses to recognize them, with
yet another arbitration as the only likely solution.

4. In securing an agreement with Parker for a new contract with, again, 1700 of its
members in an outright civil war. What is USAPA going to do after we reach an NMB
recognized impasse in our next contract negotiations. Strike? Run that scenario by
the West pilots! Parker will whipsaw the East against the West with a vengeance, and
laugh at our weakness (he already is, and he'll only laugh more).

5. In raising enough money to run this new Union. With 1700 West pilots refusing to
pay dues, how long do you think the East pilots are going to put up with assessment after assessment just to cover the ongoing Union bills, not to mention the price of
lawyers and their support staff .
-----------------------

So what's the alternative? Got to tell you, there's no easy answer, and running away
from the fight that your MEC is fighting right now in the hopes that there's a promised
land out there somewhere is a pipe dream that I'm just not buying into.

Contrary to popular opinion, once the cards are dropped, the AAA leverage created by
the USAPA threat starts to diminish. Counterintuitive, I know, but there it is anyway
(eventually, all parties simply wait for the outcome, instead of looking for solutions).

Finally, if there's an election, and ALPA wins, it will be crippled by the pilots on the
East with the same energy that USAPA will be crippled by the West pilots. In short, a
Frankenstein is about to be created, and when it is it will be out of control.

With respect for all that the USAPA supporters wish to accomplish,

XXXXX

 

[EastUS]

"This is a cut and paste from the MEC board."

Enough said right there.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

I am proud of the east pilots for sticking up for theirselves, and their careers (whats left of it).... This is the first step in the right direction for sure. Yes to USAPA... What has ALPA done for you lateeelllllyyyy ?????? Not much... except lie cheat and steal..

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Do you have a link to illustrate the NMB made a SBA ruling?

Not sure, but the SBU was filed also today. Its just a formality anyway.