USAPA Files

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I don't see a lot of credible logic here that truly supports switching from ALPA to USAPA. Most of the pro-USAPA comments are merely a well worn collection of hoo-rah cheer-leading, rhetoric, and here-say. ALPA itself does have its warts, but at least most pilots tolerate it as a CBA and - this must not be dismissed lightly - most ALPA members pay their dues. At best, USAPA stands a very slim chance of getting voted in (my personal belief, is that when most pilots get right down to it, ALPA will be the CBA of choice and USAPA will end up scattered to the winds of disgrace). And even if USAPA should get the nod, money will forever be a huge problem for them. I will go to my grave before I give that USAPA one red cent of my hard earned dollars. And I am not alone.

Ever heard of NIL braking action? That will pretty much define USAPA, its effectiveness, and its future.

As I see it, the events of today were simply a last ditch effort of desperation.

 

[EastUS]

I ALPA itself does have its warts, but at least most pilots tolerate it

Higher praises for any fine institution have never been sung. :blink: Most chinese tolerate communism. The majority of the people on Molokai once "tolerated" leprosy. "Tolerate" offers a rather poor justification for the continued existence of anything.

PS: What's meant by the stapler?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

What I'd like to know is what is US Airways going to submit as a list.....................................

Doesn't matter, so long as it is accurate. The NMB takes a dim view of packed lists.

 

[700UW]

I am not sure but doesnt the company or alpa have to file for SBU?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I don't see a lot of credible logic here that truly supports switching from ALPA to USAPA.

You wouldn't. I guess it's your particular point of view.

Most of the pro-USAPA comments are merely a well worn collection of hoo-rah cheer-leading, rhetoric, and here-say.

And the Prater / ALPA talking points sounds like a broken record. Your point?

At best, USAPA stands a very slim chance of getting voted in (my personal belief, is that when most pilots get right down to it, ALPA will be the CBA of choice and USAPA will end up scattered to the winds of disgrace).

Your entitled to your opinion. It's just that. It's not a disgrace to do what is morally right.

And even if USAPA should get the nod, money will forever be a huge problem for them. I will go to my grave before I give that USAPA one red cent of my hard earned dollars. And I am not alone.

There are alternatives. And it's not what you think.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I am not sure but doesnt the company or alpa have to file for SBU?

Anybody affected in the craft or class could file. I could file for a determination if I wanted to.

 

[Elevation]

It's all fun and games until the bill arrives. Anybody wanna guess how much? I say $1500-$2000 initially a pilot, plus monthly fees (1.5%) and bi-annual assessments ($500). It's really the elephant in the room no one is talking about. This should turn comical in a couple months.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Pure speculation and conjecture formulated on the ALPA structure. Keep trying. But luckily we're not on the ALPA structure plan.

 

[fatherabraham]

What you have at minimum is a group of at least 3000 pilots who can hold the entire process hostage and possibly drive the company into yet another Bankruptcy and IMO you have 3000 pilots willing to do just that. You reach a point where you will not budge even if it means the an extremely negative outcome. For better or worse these APA pliots have reached that point.

I truly believe that this group will not give an inch and if the airline folds so what. I think they're that pissed. Nic apparently was the final insult. When you're dealing with a group that's not afraid to at least metaphorically die for a cause it makes negotiations very very difficult because for them victory can only be defined two ways. They get exactly what they want or they shut the place down. Not a lot of room to wiggle in those 2 positions is there?

PB,
I believe you understand perfectly!

 

[nycbusdriver]

If one assumes that the goal is to get a fair and equitable contract then this action by USAPA is IMO the Sandcastle's WORST nightmare come true. This whole ALPA, APA, Nic Award and all of the subsequent will take YEARS to play out. All the while creating further rancor between workgroups and management which does not bode well profit wise or otherwise.

Our economy is coming into a period of slower growth and oil is way way up with no downturn in sight. Given the above, US Airways NEEDS an agreement with all of its pilots sooner rather than later and unless and until one side moves off their current negotiating position the company will continue to underperform operationally and ultimately on Wall Street.

What you have at minimum is a group of at least 3000 pilots who can hold the entire process hostage and possibly drive the company into yet another Bankruptcy and IMO you have 3000 pilots willing to do just that. You reach a point where you will not budge even if it means the an extremely negative outcome. For better or worse these APA pliots have reached that point.

I truly believe that this group will not give an inch and if the airline folds so what. I think they're that pissed. Nic apparently was the final insult. When you're dealing with a group that's not afraid to at least metaphorically die for a cause it makes negotiations very very difficult because for them victory can only be defined two ways. They get exactly what they want or they shut the place down. Not a lot of room to wiggle in those 2 positions is there?

Piney, you've got it right. The east pilots have been through hell these past few years at the hands of both crappy, greedy, stupid and/or insane management and at the hands of self-serving ALPA. But, as the old adage goes, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." During those dark years, a very large percentage of the east pilots took it upon themselves to prepare for life after USAirways. We learned a great lesson in the process: There IS INDEED life after USAirways. The actions of the company, the union and the courts have forced us to plan for our own lives absent the company. Now, for the most part, we have unwittingly situated ourselves quite nicely for this battle. No longer are we terrified at the prospect of USAirways going down the tubes. Been there, done that, got over it. I hope the fact that 3000 pilots sent in requests for an election is not lost on the company or ALPA. THREE THOUSAND collected in little more than 4 months. Anyone who questions our resolve to have our way here despite ANY consequences is just burying his head in the sand.

THREE THOUSAND!

 

[fatherabraham]

I am however a student of the human condition and you've got a group that would just as soon burn the place down as they would share a flight deck with someone they don't view as an equal or having earned the seat through flying the miles.

PB,
Your welcome but just my opinion FWIW.
I think in general neither group wants or deserves more than they had pre-merger. ALPA merger policy failed them all big time and all get to spectate the fallout. I really don't think the average "joe pilot" is judging any other in any way per flying ability. It is all about $ and lifestyle going forward that drives the 3000+.

FA

 

[luvthe9]

It's all fun and games until the bill arrives. Anybody wanna guess how much? I say $1500-$2000 initially a pilot, plus monthly fees (1.5%) and bi-annual assessments ($500). It's really the elephant in the room no one is talking about. This should turn comical in a couple months.

Well worth it,I'm paying 2% to a group that was hoping USAir goes out of business, the secertaries make more than the captains, no help when we lost our pension, no need to bring up the senoirity award. Did ALPA national take a paycut when almost everyone took a 40%+ cut. Prater and the boys still have it all!! :down: ALPA BROUGHT THIS AMONG THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sharktooth]

It's all fun and games until the bill arrives. Anybody wanna guess how much? I say $1500-$2000 initially a pilot, plus monthly fees (1.5%) and bi-annual assessments ($500). It's really the elephant in the room no one is talking about. This should turn comical in a couple months.

Even if your cocktail napkin calculations are in the ball park, it is still less than what the east pilot pays now.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I truly believe that this group will not give an inch and if the airline folds so what.

I agree there are many on the East who feel this way. Unfortunately for them, this fact doesn't hasn't swayed the West group. Extortion is still extortion even if the extorters are willing to die for their cause. My guess is it won't ever come to that. We're not the IAM, for gosh's sake.

 

[luvn737s]

If one assumes that the goal is to get a fair and equitable contract then this action by USAPA is IMO the Sandcastle's WORST nightmare come true.

I'll be charitable and say that you really don't know what you're talking about and that's understandable and I don't hold it against you, nor do I think you should have your opinion squelched. But this just bought the company at least 30 months of continued low labor costs. I would expect that Parker sent the head of USAPA a nice big fruit basket.

To negotiate with.