USAPA Files

[EastUS]

I wonder what his "little bird" is telling him now? After all the insults, false predictions and lies, he disappeared. Oh well.

Well... there's always the gainfull "employment" to be found via donning a skirt and pom poms, and joining the "Help! Save Mighty Alpo/The Sky is Falling!!" buncha' bozos currently on flight pay loss for that noble purpose. With Mr. "I saved you all by instantly throwing away your pensions" at the top of that cheerleading pyramid...the ranks of that "commit-me" clearly need to be filled with only the most seriously delusional cases. I can envison a practice session as we speak...

"OK girls..Our Team's in real trouble here, give us that cheer"..."Pom Poms up, and...Hit It!!":

"Pensions are BAD!!!, But Alpo's GREAT!!!...Don't be sad, Nic can't wait!!....Yeeee-ayy ALPO!!!"

Addendum: Just saw Prater's latest BS in the Alpo rag (naturally again with no one but regional guys on the cover). I'm almost amazed at all the tap dancing and total "spin". The east, unbeknownst to us, is apparently seeking decertification purely over Nic, and we evidently just "lost" our pensions...It seems that the pension being immediately given up by frightened/gutless little pimps in Alpo, without even the stones for the slightest allowance for membership voting, and being utterly too stupid by far to envision even a partial plan salvage op/freezing existent funds/etc...amounts to all of us having just misplaced, or "lost" our pensions while carelessly walking down the street I guess. Nic's apparently a great idea though, because the Alpo "process", which we all know to be infallible, says so. That Prater clown's truly both pathetic, and yet hilarious.

It seems that ALpo, The Great and Powerfull, bears not the slightest responsibility for anything at all...EVER...Just ask the top guy, or anyone else holding aloft the Alpoid banner...or brandishing pom poms

These half-azzed, self serving "politicians", who are, in any negotiating enviornment, test proven to be completely dysfunctional idiots, have simply got to GO.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

"OK girls..Our Team's in real trouble here, give us that cheer"..."Pom Poms up, and...Hit It!!":

"Pensions are BAD!!!, But Alpo's GREAT!!!...Don't be sad, Nic can't wait!!....Yeeee-ayy ALPO!!!"

I don't care who you are, now that was funny!!!!

 

[Bear96]

With Mr. "I saved you all by instantly throwing away your pensions" at the top of that cheerleading pyramid...the ranks of that "commit-me" clearly need to be filled with only the most seriously delusional cases.

Refresh my memory. Was it ALPA National, or the East MEC negotiating team, who gave away the pensions?

Are you saying if USAPA had been in charge all this time, there would have been a different negotiating team at the helm during that time period, and you would still have your full DB pension?

 

[EastUS]

Refresh my memory. Was it ALPA National, or the East MEC negotiating team, who gave away the pensions?

Are you saying if USAPA had been in charge all this time, there would have been a different negotiating team at the helm during that time period, and you would still have your full DB pension?

Aw gee little Bear...Refresh my memory: Was/IS the MEC not an Alpo entity? More importantly: Was USair the only group under Alpo's benevolent and fiercly strong "National" lmao "leadership" to have their pensions stolen? Likewise, strive to improve your reading skills just a tad = I addressed the idea of at least a partial salvage of the DB plan...which wasn't even considered by the Alpoid idiots. It even proved out after the fact that such would have been cheaper for the company than the plan that was originally iinitiated as a poor replacement.

One cannot know what might have actually been possible with any firm stance, as there was NO stance taken except one of instant, and total capitulation..."Yeeee-ayy ALPO!!!"

We'll always be left in the dark as to what might have actually been achieved had any non-BS, REAL "National Union" existed, as there clearly was/is none..save for the name, which serves only as attempted justification for the bloated pay and perks accorded to the likes of Prater/et al.

"there would have been a different negotiating team at the helm" Safe bet there, as USAPA's evidently not thinking in terms of having amateur "negotiators" via "I'm a pilot in Alpo..I'm smart, just ask me..I'm a great negotiator, heck; I can probably perform cardiac surgery" put up against corporate sharks. One doesn't sensibly bring any blunted Alpo butter knife to a gun fight.

 

[Bear96]

Aw gee little Bear...Refresh my memory: Was/IS the MEC not an Alpo entity?

Nice dodge of the question.

But continue enjoying your little fantasy that getting rid of ALPA will solve all your problems.

So what will you hold USAPA to if it is voted in -- bringing back the DB pension, tripling your salary, and guaranteeing 20 days per month off for all? After all, if it weren't for darn ALPA, no doubt you would have all that and more, right?

 

[pilot]

Had ALPA been a true union a nationwide SOS would have been threatened and then followed up on if the pension had been allowed to be taken.

With no national support (actually a fervent hope among fellow ALPA members as well as ALPA national that U would liquidate) the cowardly MEC voted to give the pension away WITHOUT the vote of the rank and file.

I know what unionism is. It is caring as much for your fellow pilot as yourself. That hasn't happened at ALPA in 25 years or longer. And it ain't happening now and I doubt whether USAPA can stir the troops either. But I'll be happy to take that chance. Simply because ALPA can't even spell union much less act like one.

pilot

 

[EastUS]

Nice dodge of the question.

But continue enjoying your little fantasy that getting rid of ALPA will solve all your problems.

So what will you hold USAPA to if it is voted in -- bringing back the DB pension, tripling your salary, and guaranteeing 20 days per month off for all? After all, if it weren't for darn ALPA, no doubt you would have all that and more, right?

By "question" do you mean the ridiculous lure cast about the DB plan being retained in full had the Alpoids not been there to throw it away instantly? That's not a question..it's the deafening clash of pom poms moving at warp speed

I'm confident that at least substantial benefits could/should have been salvaged, very possibly the entire plan, and that wasn't even attempted by Alpo....ever, at any level, throughout the industry. Perhaps you can refresh my memory, and that of all readers here: WHAT steps/actions did Alpo, ALpo Notional/etc EVER take to thwart the wholesale destruction of the industry's pensions? I'm listening :blink:

PS: I've no "little fantasy that getting rid of ALPA will solve all your problems." Life's always presenting issues to solve...that keeps things interesting. I'd argue that eliminating a proven build up of ice on any lifting surface is always a good thing, and ridding ourselves of Alpo will certainly reduce the drag on the pilot community by a huge amount.

Bear? Enough with "East is least/West is best" BS...Seriously; I'm all ears. How about offering us your wisdom within ANY semblance of the least bit of a cogent argument/presentation in favor of actually keeping Alpo?

 

[sharktooth]

Well thank you for passing along the false figure.

Wow. Keep it up and we can get the entire shebang declared "single carrier status" and you can get furloughed, again.

Your only hope to keeping yourself from being placed behind a commuter co-pilot is to dump ALPA. I am certain from your perspective, it is not the best of all worlds but it'll certainly be better than having 6000 pilots younger than you who are senior to you, but then your perspective has not been all that rational lately so maybe that is what you want.

 

[Bear96]

I'm confident that at least substantial benefits could/should have been salvaged, very possibly the entire plan, and that wasn't even attempted by Alpo....ever, at any level, throughout the industry. Perhaps you can refresh my memory, and that of all readers here: WHAT steps/actions did Alpo, ALpo Notional/etc EVER take to thwart the wholesale destruction of the industry's pensions? I'm listening :blink:

Perhaps ALPA National didn't get a chance to do anything about the East pension because the East MEC, made up of East pilots, had ditched it so fast.

How about offering us your wisdom within ANY semblance of the least bit of a cogent argument/presentation in favor of actually keeping Alpo?

I couldn't care less if you dump ALPA. If you think it will improve your lot, go for it. But I don't see how it will. There will be an initial burst of enthusiasm and perhaps some short-lived "change" (which may or may not be for the better), but in short order the leaders of USAPA will be essentially the same as the current leaders of the East MEC and the same problems will start to resurface.

If you haven't figured it out by now, there are really only a relatively small number of people willing to do union work, in any union. It doesn't really matter what the union is; those who are interested in doing work have already been doing it. So do what you feel you have to, but plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose . . .

 

[Piedmont1984]

Perhaps ALPA National didn't get a chance to do anything about the East pension because the East MEC, made up of East pilots, had ditched it so fast.




I couldn't care less if you dump ALPA. If you think it will improve your lot, go for it. But I don't see how it will. There will be an initial burst of enthusiasm and perhaps some short-lived "change" (which may or may not be for the better), but in short order the leaders of USAPA will be essentially the same as the current leaders of the East MEC and the same problems will start to resurface.

If you haven't figured it out by now, there are really only a relatively small number of people willing to do union work, in any union. It doesn't really matter what the union is; those who are interested in doing work have already been doing it. So do what you feel you have to, but plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose . . .

The difference with USAPA will be it's structure from the outset; quite different from ALPA, homegrown, locally accountable.

People are people, yes, but at least career agendas at the national level will no longer be an option.

Having to serve the interest of pilot groups who are competing with each other in the market place will no longer be necessary.

Give me a few more minutes and I could probably give you several more reasons. Bottom line, educate yourself, listen to what both sides say, remember what ALPA does vs says, and then vote. There is no guarantee that USAPA will win. But regardless of your position on the seniority issue, the pilots have a bona fide choice. You may not realize it, but we are witnessing an historic event unfold in the history of unionism.

 

[EastUS]

Perhaps ALPA National didn't get a chance to do anything about the East pension because the East MEC, made up of East pilots, had ditched it so fast.




I couldn't care less if you dump ALPA. If you think it will improve your lot, go for it. But I don't see how it will. There will be an initial burst of enthusiasm and perhaps some short-lived "change" (which may or may not be for the better), but in short order the leaders of USAPA will be essentially the same as the current leaders of the East MEC and the same problems will start to resurface.

If you haven't figured it out by now, there are really only a relatively small number of people willing to do union work, in any union. It doesn't really matter what the union is; those who are interested in doing work have already been doing it. So do what you feel you have to, but plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose . . .

"Perhaps ALPA National didn't get a chance to do anything.." That's the most singularly absurd justification for a wholesale lack of rsponsible, much less functional, "oversight" by any alleged "leadership" group that I've heard in at least..well..a long time indeed. I suppose that it follows that the utter capitulation on ALpo's part throughout the industry's also not "their fault" in some magical fashion? Perhaps if we'd simply hanged the entire east MEC at that time, and, by logical extension; those of the other carriers, then all would be well with the industry? Hmmm...I'm thinking.....sigh...Ah Well: Never too late for a change, even if far overdue

If you haven't figured it out by now...a surprising amount of good people do step up when conditions warrant, and when they're not bogged down by some good ole' boy, tar pit network that's only intent on maintaining itself, and fostering apathy and disengagement. As for "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose . . ."...Pas possible madame. Nous sommes alle au piste de les gloire aujourd'hui....Alpo?..C'est Cochon! (hope I've got that all spelled/punctuated correctly...'tis been awhile)....anyways..Liberte', Egalite,' Fraternite'...etc

Seriously though; A distinct benefit will come from the facts noted in Piedmont's above post = "People are people, yes, but at least career agendas at the national level will no longer be an option." and that USAPA folks will be truly accountable at the local, and immediate level, which is clearly intended in the setting up of the Union.

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (EastUS @ Nov 28 2007, 12:59 PM)
"OK girls..Our Team's in real trouble here, give us that cheer"..."Pom Poms up, and...Hit It!!":

"Pensions are BAD!!!, But Alpo's GREAT!!!...Don't be sad, Nic can't wait!!....Yeeee-ayy ALPO!!!"

I don't care who you are, now that was funny!!!!

Thanks Bro...I try, in my own small way What tha' heck?: Humour's a vital element within life in general, actual war, trying times of any sort, and certainly serves no ill purpose within this current mess. The day ever comes that we cannot laugh at life's insanities...sigh..such would be a harsh day indeed.

PS: Amongst my most treasured memorized quotations comes one from Rafael Sabatini's "Scaramouche": "He was born with a gift of laughter, and a sense that the world was mad" I submit that such puts some perspective on our current debacles.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Perhaps ALPA National didn't get a chance to do anything about the East pension because the East MEC, made up of East pilots, had ditched it so fast.

Perhaps the east MEC ditched it with ALPA's blessing. Were you there? I doubt it. Once again your professed neutrality creeps to the forefront. Once again your anti east biases come out. Once again why is that?

I couldn't care less if you dump ALPA. If you think it will improve your lot, go for it. But I don't see how it will. There will be an initial burst of enthusiasm and perhaps some short-lived "change" (which may or may not be for the better), but in short order the leaders of USAPA will be essentially the same as the current leaders of the East MEC and the same problems will start to resurface.

If you haven't figured it out by now, there are really only a relatively small number of people willing to do union work, in any union. It doesn't really matter what the union is; those who are interested in doing work have already been doing it. So do what you feel you have to, but plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose . . .

Sorry Bear, wrong assumptions again. The structure of USAPA will not permit more of the same. No single person will be able to sign for or on behalf of all pilots. There must always be a vote, either by the rank and file, senatorial or executive. But there will never be that much power placed in the hands of the few with little to no oversight. This is not ALPA.

Actually, there are more people than you think. A lot of rational people saw ALPA for what it is. A self serving association interested only its self preservation first. Somewhere after that, then it represents all pilots. So naturally great leaders chose to stay away from such an association.

 

[sharktooth]

Perhaps ALPA National didn't get a chance to do anything about the East pension because the East MEC, made up of East pilots, had ditched it so fast.

Dear, I am certain your hubby spends quite a bit to time wiping drool from your mouth. Otherwise, you would have enabled the wherewithal to actually do 3.4 seconds of work to find out that the US contract demanded that all pilots be allowed to participate in an individual vote that "substantially changed their working conditions", something that would actually invalidate the charge you made.

Since you seem to always hide under the "stupid" defense, I would not be surprised to not hear of a correction to your overt, and, seemingly, constant, pathetic, and at best, ignorance.

 

[EastUS]

Since you seem to always hide under the "stupid" defense, I would not be surprised to not hear of a correction to your overt, and, seemingly, constant, pathetic, and at best, ignorance.

In all fairness sir: Given the overall "management" of this farce, the "I love Alpo" cheerleaders/et al, and the general rules of engagement for our overall situation these past two years...One MUST needs afford "The Stupid Defense" it's proper due..as it's clearly held full sway for some length of time now