USAPA Files

[luvn737s]

Bear-
Are you in line for sainthood? Your patience with Sharktooth and EastUS is amazing. You ask simple questions and they blab on and on and don't say anything. I wish someone who really knew what they were talking about would answer you. I'd like to hear a cogent reply to your questions. I think alot of folks would.

 

[EastUS]

I wish someone who really knew what they were talking about......

There's clearly no imminent threat of you ever applying for that position with any earnest intent

Here's a low and slowly lobbed pitch that you might be able to handle though = Just HOW/WHY did the mighty ALpo give up everyone's pensions throughout the industry? Enquiring minds want to know That one shouldn't be the least bit problematic for such an Alpo cheerleader as yourself

PS: "Bear-Are you in line for sainthood?" Few lawyers actually appear to be recoiling in immediate fear of receiving the Canon, and being thusly eternally displaced from their peers in the catholic's notions of the hereafter.....you must not get out much

 

[sharktooth]

I wish someone who really knew what they were talking about ......

Maybe quite talking with your moronic and wishful "buddies" would be a start?

 

[luvn737s]

Thanks for your immediate blather. While I never have to wait for a response, I'm still waiting for you to actually say anything.

So the call still remains.

Maybe U-SAPs is counting on people not getting answers to critical questions and just voting based on emotion and bias. Actually they're relying on a whole lot of irrational action for them to carry the day. No wonder the U-SAPs contingent is avoiding any direct answers.

Carry on good U-SAPs soldiers! You've captured the trenches!

 

[LegacyPilot]

As an outsider watching this train wreck. I am constantly amazed at the revisionist history.

ALPO national did not give up anyone's pension. USAirway's was given away by their own pilot leadership. UAL's was taken by the PBGC. Delta's was voted on by the entire pilot group. If there are any others I am pretty sure ALPA national did not order them "given up".

While we are at it, ALPA national did not furlough you, cut your pay, gut your workrules, etc. You have your company, the economy, and ultimately yourself to blame for your situation based on the choices you have made with your career. If you want to make new choices with USAPA and try to change things going forward then go for it, but accept responsibility for your choices.

LegacyPilot

 

[Bear96]

[T]he US contract demanded that all pilots be allowed to participate in an individual vote that "substantially changed their working conditions", something that would actually invalidate the charge you made.

?

What was invalidated? I stated that East MEC did away with your pensions without a vote. Therefore you appear to be saying that (1) the pensions weren't terminated, and/or (2) the pilots had a vote.

Could you cite the section of the contract you are referring to? (And clarify which "US contract" you are talking about -- the U/ALPA CBA, or ALPA C&B. It sounds like you mean U/ALPA, but it would be odd for a CBA between employer and union to govern how internal union procedures are carried out.)

 

[Bear96]

The structure of USAPA will not permit more of the same. No single person will be able to sign for or on behalf of all pilots. There must always be a vote, either by the rank and file, senatorial or executive. But there will never be that much power placed in the hands of the few with little to no oversight. This is not ALPA.

But wait a minute. Sharktooth just said:

[T]he US contract demanded that all pilots be allowed to participate in an individual vote that "substantially changed their working conditions", something that would actually invalidate the charge you made.

Was sharktooth full of crap, or will there ultimately be no real difference between ALPA and USAPA?

 

[sharktooth]

Could you cite the section of the contract you are referring to? (And clarify which "US contract" you are talking about -- the U/ALPA CBA, or ALPA C&B. It sounds like you mean U/ALPA, but it would be odd for a CBA between employer and union to govern how internal union procedures are carried out.)

I thought I was quite clear.

Wipe the drool from your face and do a little work, yourself. If you have trouble reading there are many services available that can help you. Understand it yourself and then we can work together. Until then, you are nothing but a lazy sharpshooter, and not a very good one at that.

 

[EastUS]

?

What was invalidated? I stated that East MEC did away with your pensions without a vote. Therefore you appear to be saying that (1) the pensions weren't terminated, and/or (2) the pilots had a vote.

Could you cite the section of the contract you are referring to? (And clarify which "US contract" you are talking about -- the U/ALPA CBA, or ALPA C&B. It sounds like you mean U/ALPA, but it would be odd for a CBA between employer and union to govern how internal union procedures are carried out.)

No problem ma cher....the appropriate text, from Alpo was previously cited above, and non plus non...there's no assignable responsibility for the actions of a single small minded MEC jerkoff's panic moment in any wise appropriately distributed to the individual line pilots, nor they as a group. World shaking issues were stated, and fully presumed to be subject to a membership vote...which was denied. Above and beyond any simple codification of that lies the inherently assumed "trust" placed in any with responsibility to "do the right thing for/with the membership"...such was hardly done by Alpo in any fashion whatsoever.

 

[nostradamus]

Bear-
Are you in line for sainthood? Your patience with Sharktooth and EastUS is amazing. You ask simple questions and they blab on and on and don't say anything. I wish someone who really knew what they were talking about would answer you. I'd like to hear a cogent reply to your questions. I think alot of folks would.

''This money is being given to one competitor, with no strings attached, to attack another competitor,'' said Edward Faberman, a lawyer who represents the Air Carrier Association of America, a group of low-fare airlines that opposes the pension break to the major carriers.

Airlines opposed to the break include AirTran, Frontier, Spirit, America West and JetBlue, although America West and JetBlue are not members of the association.

America West Airlines were not too helpful for pension reform in the past

 

[sharktooth]

No problem ma cher....the appropriate text, from Alpo was previously cited above, and non plus non...there's no assignable responsibility for the actions of a single small minded MEC jerkoff's panic moment in any wise appropriately distributed to the individual line pilots, nor they as a group. World shaking issues were stated, and fully presumed to be subject to a membership vote...which was denied.

You know words comprising four letters or more is well beyond the bears comprehension.

 

[Bear96]

Perhaps the east MEC ditched it with ALPA's blessing. Were you there? I doubt it. Once again your professed neutrality creeps to the forefront. Once again your anti east biases come out. Once again why is that?

I see. So your position is that the East MEC did not do away with the pensions, and anyone who suggests otherwise is "biased against the East." Got it.

A lot of rational people saw ALPA for what it is. A self serving association interested only its self preservation first. Somewhere after that, then it represents all pilots.

So this USAPA won't be interested in its self-preservation. If a challenger union pops up, USAPA will say, "OK, here. You can represent the LCC pilots. No biggie."

I am sure the West pilots will be glad to hear this.

 

[EastUS]

I see. So your position is that the East MEC did not do away with the pensions, and anyone who suggests otherwise is "biased against the East." Got it.
So this USAPA won't be interested in its self-preservation. If a challenger union pops up, USAPA will say, "OK, here. You can represent the LCC pilots. No biggie."

I am sure the West pilots will be glad to hear this.

"I see. So your position is that the East MEC did not do away with the pensions, and anyone who suggests otherwise is "biased against the East." Got it." No possible way Milady...the entire obliteration of pensions nationwaide within the airline industry's clearly the sole fault of the east mec (agreed by me to have been spineless idiots), not Alpo in general..and anyone who says otherwise is clearly just biased against Alpo Notional I didn't realize that you were also supportive of anti-Alpo thughts.

"So this USAPA won't be interested in its self-preservation. If a challenger union pops up, USAPA will say, "OK, here. You can represent the LCC pilots. No biggie." Again..no possible way. Employing your inherent assumptions, so common amongst lawyers = everyone's self interested and utterly vile..so that could never be

"I am sure the West pilots will be glad to hear this." Why do you care?..Given that you're so utterly "neutral"? What does one sides' opinion matter to the "neutral" presentation, or the validity of the facts?

 

[Bear96]

No problem ma cher....the appropriate text, from Alpo was previously cited above[.]

I have no desire to dig through 530+ posts to find something previously cited somewhere "above." So I'll take you at your word that that came from ALPA C&B (or some internal policy / procedural rules or whatever; I'll just call it "C&B" for simplicity's sake).

So. See the problem? You are trumpteting the virtues of USAPA, which supposedly will have this novel idea that members must have a vote. But wait a minute. That is apparently nothing new!

You are claiming ALPA did something that is against its C&B, and you (East pilots) stood by idly and did nothing about it. So what is to prevent USAPA from doing the same thing?

Oh, wait, I know. All of these brilliant leaders who have not stepped forward all these years to get U/ALPA on the right path for whatever reason will suddenly materialize from the sidelines and "do things differently" and change the world.

Good plan. Sign me up.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

But wait a minute. Sharktooth just said:



Was sharktooth full of crap, or will there ultimately be no real difference between ALPA and USAPA?

Past and present versus the future. Something you and everyone else from the west can't understand. Nice try.