USAPA Files

[EastUS]

USEast wrote



I think anyone who chooses a system of law over anarchy and "Might is Right" mentality deserves that satisfaction. It's what transforms warring tribes into civilizations.The rule of law should trump the rule of mobs. That's a righteous position that needs very little defending.



OK , I'll let the retirees know that "fact". What is your prejudice with youth, by the way? Do you hold this same prejudice with minorities and women who fail to "remember their place" within the majority? I'm seeing a disturbing pattern, I hope I am very much misinterpreting.



The solution is in the hands of a timid ALPA president.

"It's what transforms warring tribes into civilizations" That's amazingly naieve, and assumes that no victory in any said "warring" necessarily comes before any rule of law's even remotely possible. WTF this supposedly has to do with an attempted seniority grab's difficult to see. Good sound bite though

"The rule of law should trump the rule of mobs. That's a righteous position that needs very little defending." Actually? That position needs constant defence, always has, and has cost untold lives in the process.

Prior to blindly worshipping any "system of law" for it's own sake; know that the greatest atrocities in history have all been performed with fullest legal propriety under any given vile regime's "system of law". Millions of jews, gays, gypsies, "mentally unfit"s and others, as defined by Third Reich legal codification perished quite recently in legally correct "processes". This nation wouldn't even exist had the founding fathers fretted more with existent 'law" than what they perceived to be actually right and moral. Sound bite over.

"What is your prejudice with youth, by the way? Do you hold this same prejudice with minorities and women who fail to "remember their place" within the majority? I'm seeing a disturbing pattern, I hope I am very much misinterpreting."

You're seeing an imaginary "pattern" that merely suits your own biases, and has nothing to do with my views or principles, much less any alleged "prejudice". Umm...just curious...how did I suddenly qualify as having "prejudice" against "minorities and women"? Good blanket attempt at personal character assault via "political correctness" though. Personally; I feel that the attempted usage of such BS speaks volumes indeed about character..but that's just me. Speaking of a "disturbing pattern": You must seriously be running outta' any viable material. Is the west position truly that difficult to defend on any visceral level? :blink:

I'll give full points for your punch line though....it's hilarious = "The solution is in the hands of a timid ALPA president."

 

[luvn737s]

"The rule of law should trump the rule of mobs. That's a righteous position that needs very little defending." Actually? That position needs constant defence, always has, and has cost untold lives in the process.

Now Skippy, you're starting to come around. We're beginning to see signs of progress. You now agree that U-SAPs mob rule strategy is indefensible and that the pre-established and ageed-to rules should be honored. On behalf of the rest of the rational thinking world, Welcome, we're glad you're here. Here's your fruit basket.

 

[EastUS]

Now Skippy, you're starting to come around. We're beginning to see signs of progress. You now agree that U-SAPs mob rule strategy is indefensible and that the pre-established and ageed-to rules should be honored. On behalf of the rest of the rational thinking world, Welcome, we're glad you're here. Here's your fruit basket.

Sigh...you truly are outta' material...and I've had enough dealings with fruit baskets from the west for now

 

[nycbusdriver]

Now Skippy, you're starting to come around. We're beginning to see signs of progress. You now agree that U-SAPs mob rule strategy is indefensible and that the pre-established and ageed-to rules should be honored. On behalf of the rest of the rational thinking world, Welcome, we're glad you're here. Here's your fruit basket.

Mob rule is outside of the law. Everything USAPA has done and is doing is well within the scope of existing federal labor law. If there are disputes, they will be settled in a court of law. That is hardly "mob rule."

Don't like the law? Run for Congress. Vote to change it. But the law is the law. Let the system play itself out. Anything less would be illegal!

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I am wondering something. What will the east do if the USAPA ploy falls through, and ALPA is retained on the property? Will they begin to "follow the law" then? Will they finally abide by the agreement that is called binding arbitration? Will they open their eyes and see that there is pain on the west from the Nic award too? Or will they simply continue to whine, stall, and slobber in their beer like a bunch of frat brats who's football team just lost the homecoming game?

 

[Best_Guess]

Hold on....I have a vision....It’s 12 years from now in the cockpit of an A330 crossing the Atlantic. The AWA hired captain (hired in 1992) is complaining to his F/O (hired 2008) and IRO (hired 2009) about how bad he was screwed by USAPA and DOH. With almost all the “oldâ€￾ USAir guys gone, the F/O and IRO don’t get it.

F/O: “Those guys are almost all gone, so what’s your beef?â€￾

The Captain tries to explain, “Don’t you see, I should have been here earlier! We saved those guys!â€￾

F/O: “How?â€￾

Captain: “We bought them!â€￾

F/O: “Bought them? How much did it cost?â€￾

Captain: “Billionsâ€￾

F/O: “Was it payroll deducted?â€￾

Captain: “That’s not what I mean!â€￾

F/O: “Oh.â€￾

Captain: “I deserved to be here earlier!â€￾

F/O: “Did they tell you that when you were hired?â€￾

Captain: “No we didn’t have 330s, they did!â€￾

F/O: “Oh.â€￾

Captain: “They agreed to Arbitrationâ€￾

F/O: “Agreed? Oh then it was sent out for a vote. Did they agree to ALPA merger policy, or just Arbitration?â€￾

Captain: “I don’t know, they just lied.â€￾

F/O: “Oh.â€￾

Captain: “DOH gave them a windfall!â€￾

F/O: “Let me make sure I understand this. You are captain on an A330 across the Atlantic, after being hired by AWA in 1992, and they got the windfall because of DOH. OK, now I understand.â€￾

 

[nostradamus]

To understand the East side, the following letter from your MEC states that if the arbitration did not go your way it would be an "unworkable solution."

What did the statment "unworkable solution imply?"

"Specifics on how the two merge their seniority lists are left up
to negotiations between the pilot groups involved; however, if no agreement is reached, a
merged list would emerge from a mediation-arbitration process. Clearly, in such discussions
with the US Airways pilots, we would view a date-of-hire type of integration as a completely
unworkable solution for the America West pilots.

While details of the transaction continue to evolve, we remain focused on our priorities:
protecting and defending the career expectations of America West pilots. As such, we will not
allow America West management to lose focus on running an efficient airline or forget their
commitment of operating in the best interests of the employees.

We are a vital part of America West, and we will not allow our pilots’ career expectations
to be sacrificed as a result of our airline’s success.”

If things do not go our way in arbitration, we will burn the place down article 2005

 

[Tiger 1050]

Captain: “They agreed to Arbitrationâ€￾

F/O: “Agreed? Oh then it was sent out for a vote. Did they agree to ALPA merger policy, or just Arbitration?â€￾

You guys are such whiners!!! "I didn't get to vote!" "I didn't get to vote!"

Get over it. I didn't get to vote for this horrible merger tying our lines to the HMS Titanic!

 

[Best_Guess]

You guys are such whiners!!! "I didn't get to vote!" "I didn't get to vote!"

Get over it. I didn't get to vote for this horrible merger tying our lines to the HMS Titanic!

Don't worry, you'll get a vote soon!

 

[nostradamus]

To understand the East side, the following letter from your MEC states that if the arbitration did not go your way it would be an "unworkable solution."

What did the statment "unworkable solution imply?"

"Specifics on how the two merge their seniority lists are left up
to negotiations between the pilot groups involved; however, if no agreement is reached, a
merged list would emerge from a mediation-arbitration process. Clearly, in such discussions
with the US Airways pilots, we would view a date-of-hire type of integration as a completely
unworkable solution for the America West pilots.

While details of the transaction continue to evolve, we remain focused on our priorities:
protecting and defending the career expectations of America West pilots. As such, we will not
allow America West management to lose focus on running an efficient airline or forget their
commitment of operating in the best interests of the employees.

We are a vital part of America West, and we will not allow our pilots’ career expectations
to be sacrificed as a result of our airline’s success.â€￾

If things do not go our way in arbitration, we will burn the place down article 2005

 

[nostradamus]

AWA Union leader quote


"To be clear our union’s Merger Policy provides
for a process and timeframe for events to occur, but does not dictate how two ALPA pilot groups
will integrate their seniority lists. "

 

[nostradamus]

AWA union leader quote 2005

"Clearly, in such discussions
with the US Airways pilots, we would view a date-of-hire type of integration as a completely
unworkable solution for the America West pilots."

 

[nostradamus]

Will they open their eyes and see that there is pain on the west from the Nic award too?

Specifics on pain AWA pilots would suffer, please.

 

[nostradamus]

AWA pilot union quote 2005

"As such, we will not
allow America West management to lose focus on running an efficient airline or forget their
commitment of operating in the best interests of the employees."


Translation, your airline will not be efficient if we do not get our way on the seniority issue


You hypocrites are telling east to pony up, be a man, honor your agreements. Your mec letter proves you had no intention to do so if it did not go your way.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I am wondering something. What will the east do if the USAPA ploy falls through, and ALPA is retained on the property? Will they begin to "follow the law" then? Will they finally abide by the agreement that is called binding arbitration? Will they open their eyes and see that there is pain on the west from the Nic award too? Or will they simply continue to whine, stall, and slobber in their beer like a bunch of frat brats who's football team just lost the homecoming game?

You started out with a very good question. Then you ruined it by hurling insults. How about if you answer this question then. What will you do if USAPA is elected? I have heard some of the possible responses, but I'm just asking you. See that was easy, no insults just a straight forward question.