USAPA Files

[sharktooth]

Jack Stephan has yet to even utter the word U-SAPs, either out of fear or revererance. The U-SAPs equivalent of leadership has never spoken a critcal word of Council 41 or the AAA MEC, knowing that if that puppet regime were to go away, U-SAPs might have to really deliver something, and it is becoming more obvious every day that they are ill prepared to ever do that.

Lorenzo debuted the alter-ego airline to try and destroy the piloting profession. U-SAPs has learned well: the alter ego MEC.

First, Lorenzo did not debut the alter-ego airline. He simply modernized a process evident to any who care prevalent in the '30s.

Second, to you ,Captain Stephan, was elected as an ALPA official. To promote any kind of opposition to ALPA Natl would require an honest person step down first, something he may yet do before supporting USAPA. It is called being true to yourself, something you and your fellow ignorant (naive?) pilots have a long way to go to grow up about.

Also, in case you cannot even understand what you, yourself wrote, USAPA recognizes the problem is with ALPA Natl, not the local MEC nor the local LEC.

As far as "ill prepared", your ignorant opinion would carry so much more weight were you to actually know what you are talking about. Try participating to influence the eventual outcome. It may help you understand the issues, including the extreme pitfalls you expose yourself to should the "nic" become reality.

 

[luvn737s]

reality.

Reality? Now you're sailing in unfamiliar waters.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You consistently forget to add to DOH the phrase "with conditions and restrictions".

And this is why there won't be a consensual solution forthcoming any time soon.......

East is insistent that any acceptable solution must be based on a list constructed by DOH while West is insistent that any acceptable solution must be based on the Nik award. Bridging that gulf requires capitulation on the core issue by one side or the other.

Unless one side submits to the other's demands, the only solution is for the underlying list to be forced on one side or the other, but then the "winning" side will have no reason to seek solutions to the implementation problems - conditions and restrictions.

Jim

 

[Tiger 1050]

Putting 17 year pilots junior to new hires has ended any hope of that.

remind me again of the status of those 17 year pilots on may 18th 2005.

 

[EastUS]

remind me again of the status of those 17 year pilots on may 18th 2005.

OK = Alive, hired by USAir, many years service accomplished, disenfranchised by Alpo, and far more experienced than yourself...That cover it?

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

I believe the real answer is on furlough with no expectation of return.

 

[Tiger 1050]

As well, should the ALPA "nic" fairy tale go forward, we can see how well an aircraft flys at FL200 with gear, etc. and so on. Demanding the status, each flight, for any MELs/inspection items is always a great time waster, under the "new", money-saving, Spectre. Simply demanding a head vs ticket count equals zero saved US at least one $10,000 fine, despite the VP for flight ordering the captain to take off anyway. Kudos to the captain for standing his ground.

Careful smart guy! There are others on this board who watch for any suggestion of an illegal job action. Speaking of which didn't some other smart guy get fired for that kind of stuff...

 

[Tiger 1050]

I believe the real answer is on furlough with no expectation of return.

BINGO!!!! But then, now that EastUS and the rest of the whining children of the east have now enlightened me, each of the aforementioned pilots were incorrectly placed on the furlough list. You see, each one of them had hundreds of thousands of hours and hundreds of type ratings thereby making them ineligible to be placed on such a list...

 

[EastUS]

BINGO!!!! But then, now that EastUS and the rest of the whining children of the east have now enlightened me, each of the aforementioned pilots were incorrectly placed on the furlough list. You see, each one of them had hundreds of thousands of hours and hundreds of type ratings thereby making them ineligible to be placed on such a list...

Sigh..I guess that you're right after all. There truly must be something hugely noble and deserving within the hallowed ranks of younger AWA sorts that should properly entitle all of you to whatever you want in life, regardless of any/all consequences. Why..untill interacting with you guys...I'd really been entirely unaware that inexperience, attitude, and self obsession were apparently "virtues", from which demands could be painted as coming from a "Righteous Positon"....

As far as "the whining children of the east"? Said "children" are, in fact, your actual seniors in life and flying. You may dislike that...but your opinion doesn't change the situation. Your wholesale disrespect's more within the proper venue of spoiled little "children".

Regardless of the well established lack of mutual admiration; Some solutions will eventually need to be found. Alpo doesn't have them...and you evidently don't have them.

 

[flynomore]

OK = Alive, hired by USAir, many years service accomplished, disenfranchised by Alpo, and far more experienced than yourself...That cover it?

Member

NYGiants quote:

I believe the real answer is on furlough with no expectation of return.
==================================================================

Forgotten in that statement is those immediately ahead of Collelo that (1) were never furloughed and (2) now find themselves junior to the entirety of the AWA list courtesy of a poorly administered 'process'.

3000 have asked ALPA to prove itself. Let's see what Pollack and the rest of that list of non-flying pilots can come up with.

 

[EastUS]

I believe the real answer is on furlough with no expectation of return.

Ah...the old "expectation" fantasy...I always find amusement from any foolish enough to even utter it with conviction...as if most "expectation" is even reasonably definable outside of any single human mind's perspective. A question for you: Where are/were the actuarial tables on airline mergers and employee groups? Any succesful insurance company is replete with data on life duration statistics, factored by age/etc, and will use those for making their wager with you that you won't die under specific conditions within a set time period. What possible data do you suppose exists to support any/all 'expectations" for individual pilot careers since deregulation?....potential mergers?...etc ?

Five years ago: Where did you think you would be now ? Where are you personally going to be 5 years hence?...ten years? Are you even the least bit certain of living that much longer? :blink:

Come on,..let's hear those old "expectations" start flying around While you're at it?...Kindly forward the next winning lottery numbers for the benefit of all of us here

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Were you in the room with Lakefield, Glass, Hemenway, the CFO and GECAS when they said they were going to take all their planes back if US did not figure out a way to cut costs?

There was no expectation of return since US has been downsizing for years.

 

[exB717Flyer]

You consistently forget to add to DOH the phrase "with conditions and restrictions". This is a well-known and historic method of bringing equity to unequal, in this case, seniority/career expectations. Your oversimplification serves as a demon for non-thinkers to focus upon and as a false beginning point for otherwise logical thought.

Furloughs go by reverse seniority order. There are no conditions, restrictions, or fences that change this. The Nicolau Award assures that the pain of future furloughs are shared by both sides. Your plan makes three-quarters of the AWA list your furlough-fodder. There's a reason why Nic decided the way he did.

 

[luvn737s]

USEast wrote

Sigh..I guess that you're right after all. There truly must be something hugely noble and deserving within the hallowed ranks of younger AWA sorts that should properly entitle all of you to whatever you want in life, regardless of any/all consequences. Why..untill interacting with you guys...I'd really been entirely unaware that inexperience, attitude, and self obsession were apparently "virtues", from which demands could be painted as coming from a "Righteous Positon"....

I think anyone who chooses a system of law over anarchy and "Might is Right" mentality deserves that satisfaction. It's what transforms warring tribes into civilizations. Choosing to blindly dismiss an entire pilot group as "young" and somehow unworthy of the protection afforded by codes of conduct merely casts you among the "sticks and stones" crowd. As we are beginning to see across the piloting community, there is widespread support for the west pilots and their committment to standing by the arbitrated decision. While it may be tempting for them to cut a deal with the devil, doing so encourages future U-SAPs (sticks and stones, I know) at other airlines to use similar tactics to usurp the policies and rules that have been established. The rule of law should trump the rule of mobs. That's a righteous position that needs very little defending.

As far as "the whining children of the east"? Said "children" are, in fact, your actual seniors in life and flying. You may dislike that...but your opinion doesn't change the situation. Your wholesale disrespect's more within the proper venue of spoiled little "children".

OK , I'll let the retirees know that "fact". What is your prejudice with youth, by the way? Do you hold this same prejudice with minorities and women who fail to "remember their place" within the majority? I'm seeing a disturbing pattern, I hope I am very much misinterpreting.

Regardless of the well established lack of mutual admiration; Some solutions will eventually need to be found. Alpo doesn't have them...and you evidently don't have them.

The solution is in the hands of a timid ALPA president.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Furloughs go by reverse seniority order. There are no conditions, restrictions, or fences that change this. The Nicolau Award assures that the pain of future furloughs are shared by both sides. Your plan makes three-quarters of the AWA list your furlough-fodder. There's a reason why Nic decided the way he did.

All they have to do is reword the contract to say "longevity" rather than "seniority" and the problem is solved. I wonder if that's what USAPA is talking about?