USAPA Files

[BoeingBoy]

Do you remember when we were forced to vote on the contract in '98? You know, the one with parts in it that were to be negotiated later?

Yes I do. Do you remember all the other agreements that were laid out, ratified by the pilots, and now ALPA blamed?

All I'm saying is that saying that USAPA will represent all US pilots, then turning around and saying "our" views will prevail because we have the majority creates a disconnect. Yet you say things like:

"How you want to see it work for you will be solely dependent on your participation or lack thereof." Really - with the East majority ruling?

"In our view, I can say it will benefit all pilots as it sets the basic principals to continue with our careers. Apparently, we will always have a difference of opinion on what a union is and unionism in principal." And the East majority will decide for all US pilots.

"this pilot group hasn't been unified since 1989" USAPA is being started as a way to pick winners and losers and the East majority will do the picking. Talk about a way to keep unity at bay.

As we've discussed before, there are definitely advantages to an in-house union. But one born of a desire to force the minority to bow to the majoriy isn't unifying, isn't representing all pilots, isn't what unionism is all about. You really should stop being "surprised" that the minority isn't clamoring to get behind such a union.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

"Unions want arbitration -- rather than the courts -- to be the ultimate voice in worker-union disputes. This is because the rules of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) are written to favor organized labor: only the union can invoke the arbitration process (or can do so without worker consent), only union officials are allowed to "describe the issues involved" and normal courtroom rules regarding evidence and witnesses do not apply."

Alpa out now, it will not solve the present but correct the future. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice ..................



"ALPA officials using financial summaries and blank forms as their evidence. Not surprisingly, the union won."

 

[Bear96]

"Unions want arbitration -- rather than the courts -- to be the ultimate voice in worker-union disputes. This is because the rules of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) are written to favor organized labor: only the union can invoke the arbitration process (or can do so without worker consent), only union officials are allowed to "describe the issues involved" and normal courtroom rules regarding evidence and witnesses do not apply."

Alpa out now, it will not solve the present but correct the future. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice ..................



"ALPA officials using financial summaries and blank forms as their evidence. Not surprisingly, the union won."

He shoots . . . and misses.

You do realize the Nic award was essentially worker vs. worker, not worker vs. union, right? So your post has no relevance to anything going on with LCC pilots right now.

 

[nostradamus]

He shoots . . . and misses.

You do realize the Nic award was essentially worker vs. worker, not worker vs. union, right? So your post has no relevance to anything going on with LCC pilots right now.

The only thing I realize at this point is you have no life. Sad. You sit here on this board with your prozac induced rants.

 

[Bear96]

Not only our views, but a plethora of case law supports the view that DOH/longevity is the basis for integrating merged groups.

Correction. Some case law supports the view that DOH/longevity is a basis for integrating merged groups.

It's a legal thing vs. an internal ALPA policy thing. Just ask all the judges that ruled that way, and get back to us.

It is truly mind-boggling how misguided you are.

 

[nostradamus]

Correction. Some case law supports the view that DOH/longevity is a basis for integrating merged groups.




It is truly mind-boggling how misguided you are.

Here is a song for you old decrepit spinster.


words and music by Hank Williams, Sr.

If the wife and I are fussin', brother that's our right
'Cause me and that sweet woman's got a license to fight
Why don't you mind your own business
(Mind your own business)
'Cause if you mind your business, then you won't be mindin' mine.

Oh, the woman on our party line's the nosiest thing
She picks up her receiver when she knows it's my ring
Why don't you mind your own business
(Mind your own business)
Well, if you mind your business, then you won't be mindin' mine.

I got a little gal that wears her hair up high,
the boys all whistle when she walks by.
why don't you mind your own buisness
(Mind your own business)
Well, if you mind your own business, you sure won't be minding mine.

If I want to honky tonk around 'til two or three
Now, brother that's my headache, don't you worry 'bout me.
Just mind your own business
(Mind your own business)
If you mind your business, then you won't be mindin' mine.

Mindin' other people's business seems to be high-toned
I got all that I can do just to mind my own
Why don't you mind your own business
(Mind your own business)
If you mind your own business, you'll stay busy all the time.

 

[Elevation]

Just please don't confuse ALPA leaders with USAPA leaders. We are 2 very distinct groups. One has very little support and one has overwhelming support. Care to guess which one?

If you have so much support against ALPA why don't you recall the idiots in there and put your own idiots in charge?

 

[sharktooth]

If you have so much support against ALPA why don't you recall the idiots in there and put your own idiots in charge?

Um, you don't listen very well, do you.......

 

[luv2fly]

And how many non-DOH mergers has that "plethora of case law" overturned under the RLA......

Jim

Excellent point. Does the USAPA feel the Nic award will be oveturned as a result of decertifying ALPA, and if so, what precedent does it base that expectation upon?

 

[nycbusdriver]

If you have so much support against ALPA why don't you recall the idiots in there and put your own idiots in charge?

Have a nice snooze, Mr. Van Winkle?

 

[nostradamus]

Excellent point. Does the USAPA feel the Nic award will be oveturned as a result of decertifying ALPA, and if so, what precedent does it base that expectation upon?

No, the nic award will never be over turned. ALPA will be gone. Our working relationship amongst the pilots will be decided by an agreement via a joint contract.

 

[sharktooth]

Excellent point. Does the USAPA feel the Nic award will be oveturned as a result of decertifying ALPA, and if so, what precedent does it base that expectation upon?

and you don't listen very well either. Why does anyone think "nic" needs to be overturned? Rendering it "moot" would be most efficient and elegant. I mean, why bring out the big guns when all one needs to do is park the obscenity into a permanently locked closet.

Have a good day.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Does the USAPA feel the Nic award will be oveturned as a result of decertifying ALPA, and if so, what precedent does it base that expectation upon?

I can only repeat what is on the USAPA website.

"USAPA will assert its right under the Railway Labor Act to negotiate over the terms of any seniority integration. Under the RLA, seniority is a mandatory subject of bargaining."

"A successor union, such as USAPA, has the legal right to negotiate changes in the terms and conditions of employment, including seniority."

"Moreover, the USAPA Constitution enshrines what the courts have recognized as a the labor movement's institutional and legitimate interest in pursuing seniority integration on a date of hire basis."

"And, unlike ALPA which is constitutionally committed to implementing the Nicolau award, USAPA is constitutionally committed to using its full resources to obtain seniority integration on a date of hire basis."

" USAPA merger policy is designed to address issues moving forward, and as such is not intended (initially) to attempt to re-order previously accepted seniority lists. That said, one of the cornerstones of USAPA is creating a structure in which the pilots finally have control over their own futures. Changes such as re-ordering the list, should the pilots desire, can certainly be made under the structure we are creating."

"Among USAPA’s specific differences: All bidding (seat, equipment, base, monthly, etc) strictly by date-of-hire"

"AND, (despite anything you might hear elsewhere), by forming this Union we also gain our best legal precedent for setting right, either by litigation or negotiation, the recent seniority award"

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You really should stop being "surprised" that the minority isn't clamoring to get behind such a union.

Jim

What's your alternative then? Stay with ALPA? Sorry not going to happen. Just because our unity finally surfaced after all these years, why is it that you can't understand that? If we are the majority, then so be it. As we know, things can change. As they often do quite frequently in this business. So my disdain for ALPA is shared by many including those out west, only not right now. Sorry, the common denominator for everything is ALPA! Which is in the process of screwing itself while it's trying to protect itself.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I can only repeat what is on the USAPA website.

Jim

It has been there since day 1. So once again, what is your point?

There are also many supporters since day 1 who just want to see ALPA gone. I have posted in the past that from my personal perspective, no matter what happens to Nic, I just want to see ALPA off the property. If Nic can be legally rendered moot, I'll support that too. Just so long as ALPA is gone.

What part of seeing ALPA voted off the property don't you seem to understand? Or is this some kind of test to see my/our resolve?