USAPA Files

[john john]

That is exactly what the AFA did.

The former Shuttle f/a's are on the US Airways list in order of their original Eastern DOH. And the former Empire f/a's still maintain their original DOH.

Apparently, the AFA believes that DOH is the right way to go, all of the time. Not just when it benefits "me" and screws the other guy, as is the case with ALPA.

The agent group went DOH at Eastern when we bought the Trump Shuttle

 

[AAA73Pilot]

If you are furlough are you active?

That is being determined in court. Furloughed or active at MDA.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ah, I see. So my postings on this MDA v. East dispute, where I am saying it appears to me the East side has a stronger legal footing than the MDA side, shows I am biased against the East. Got it.

Try MDA vs. ALPA. Yep, just by virtue of this post. So once again why are you?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Bear is objective in his posts and many readers can easily pick up on that. When you are blinded by so much emotion it may be a little more difficult to see this, however.

No she's not. So once again I guess it's on which side of the fence you sit.

Question for you (again). Was Mid Atlantic Airways staffed by furloughed mainline pilots? Yes or no answer. Although, I did gain quite a bit of insight in your shell-game, where-is-the-ball-now response as well as your tremendous effort of history convolution. Needless to say I am stunned at how your pilot group completely sold out the junior guys in that MAA deal. What a complete abortion of pilot unity and it should freighten all of us on the west to be even associated with you morons now. And I use the word moron after careful consideration but I cannot think of a better demonstration of self-serving, anti-union behavior in the piloting profession as what you guys are responsible for with the MAA deal. A complete black-eye on the industry as a whole. Pathetic.

Not a yes or no answer. Furloughed, most but not all. I said somewhere a long time ago, one pilot I know never missed a paycheck. It was a complete lack of unity, disinformation and outright fear. The ALPA spin meisters made sure of it. As you are currently doing. Why you're selectively attacking ALPA and defending it at the same time only demonstrates to me your self serving attitude of "I've got mine". Is the MDA deal just as bad as all the other grievances? In my eyes you bet!! That's why we want ALPA to just go away. Pathetic, moronic? Absolutely!! All under ALPA's fine leadership.

Before you claim it was the injustice brought about by your MEC leaders at ALPA (some of which are still in office today), I don't remember any of you or your ilk demonstrating in front of ALPA headquarters in protest of the MDA operation. You and many of your USAPA kind espousing unionism and "fairness for all" are nothing but a collection of hypocrites.

USAPA Hypocrites? Nice try. It's about time someone stood up to ALPA's double dealing, corruption and all around good ole boy network. You should be thankful we're giving our pilots a new union. By your post it means the old one doesn't work, never has and never will. Thanks for pointing out some of ALPA's flaws. Can't wait to ask Pollock your question. Why didn't we demonstrate on the MDAs behalf? Maybe your buddy Junebug can answer those same questions since he's now on the ACPC to save ALPA.

 

[Bear96]

Try MDA vs. ALPA. Yep, just by virtue of this post. So once again why are you?

I'm not following. Weren't MDA and East both part of ALPA? Aren't MDA pilots complaining about how they were treated unfarily by the East MEC? Or do they also have a grudge against, say, UA and America West pilots (and other ALPA pilots and MECs besides East) for how the MDA situation was handled?

What is your basis for saying I am biased against East? It appears to be about my opinion of the Nic award -- ONE event. Can you point to any other examples, unrelated to the Nic award and fallout, where I have supposedly been biased against East?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ah, I see. So my postings on this MDA v. East dispute, where I am saying it appears to me the East side has a stronger legal footing than the MDA side, shows I am biased against the East. Got it.

Read your post again. It is MDA vs ALPA. All things ALPA. So once again why are you anti east? You always have been. Why is that?

 

[Bear96]

Read your post again. It is MDA vs ALPA. All things ALPA.

? So the MDA pilots have a gripe not against just what was USAirways (i.e., East), but against UA, and DL, and NW ALPA pilots for how the MDA seniority situation was handled?

So once again why are you anti east? You always have been. Why is that?

"Always have been" anti-East?

Once again, from my previous post: What is your basis for saying I am biased against East? It appears to be about my opinion of the Nic award -- ONE event. Can you point to any other examples, unrelated to the Nic award and fallout, where I have supposedly been biased against East?

You are putting the cart before the horse. Bias means an opinion is formed based on prior feelings about a party instead of evaluating the situation and forming an objective opinion. Therefore you are saying the position I have taken about the Nic award is because of some prior hostility I have "always" had against East, instead of because of my honest opinion that the facts and the law are not on the East's side. So again, can you please point to an example of this prior (pre-seniority arbitration) hostility I supposedly had against East?

 

[EastUS]

Bear is objective in his posts and many readers can easily pick up on that. When you are blinded by so much emotion it may be a little more difficult to see this, however.

Question for you (again). Was Mid Atlantic Airways staffed by furloughed mainline pilots? Yes or no answer. Although, I did gain quite a bit of insight in your shell-game, where-is-the-ball-now response as well as your tremendous effort of history convolution. Needless to say I am stunned at how your pilot group completely sold out the junior guys in that MAA deal. What a complete abortion of pilot unity and it should freighten all of us on the west to be even associated with you morons now. And I use the word moron after careful consideration but I cannot think of a better demonstration of self-serving, anti-union behavior in the piloting profession as what you guys are responsible for with the MAA deal. A complete black-eye on the industry as a whole. Pathetic.

Before you claim it was the injustice brought about by your MEC leaders at ALPA (some of which are still in office today), I don't remember any of you or your ilk demonstrating in front of ALPA headquarters in protest of the MDA operation. You and many of your USAPA kind espousing unionism and "fairness for all" are nothing but a collection of hypocrites.

quote name='prechilill' "Mid Atlantic pilots were all on furloughed status while flying the EMB-170. The final list sent to the arbitration panel had them correctly listed in a furloughed status. End of story."

Followed almost immediately by:

"Needless to say I am stunned at how your pilot group completely sold out the junior guys in that MAA deal. What a complete abortion of pilot unity and it should freighten all of us on the west to be even associated with you morons now."

"I cannot think of a better demonstration of self-serving, anti-union behavior in the piloting profession as what you guys are responsible for with the MAA deal. A complete black-eye on the industry as a whole. Pathetic."

Hmmm...If I've got this right? = Demanding Nic's naturally not "self-serving, anti-union behavior"?.... and you're fully defensive about the hose job Alpo geniuses did to the Mid Atlantic folks, but yet are utterly insistent that they were but "furloughed" unfortunates that needn't be considered on your notions of any "list"? It seems that you're fully fine with selling out senior pilots for your own gain via Alpo, and simultaneously have some problems against wishing for any redress for "junior" folks that Alpo hosed....interesting moral structure at work therein. Let's make sure that the Mid At were "correctly listed in a furloughed status" for your personal benefit...as you're clearly a pro union and brotherhood sort of the first order. You've provided yet another truly fine example of Alpo "thinking".

"What a complete abortion of pilot unity..." "A complete black-eye on the industry as a whole. Pathetic."

 

[AAA73Pilot]

? So the MDA pilots have a gripe not against just what was USAirways (i.e., East), but against UA, and DL, and NW ALPA pilots for how the MDA seniority situation was handled?

Nice try again. If you won't / can't answer the question, just keep upping the ante. If the ALPA leadership loses then everyone of the listed carriers are affected. Individually, no gripe. Collectively as ALPA, I hope you get the point. But I doubt it.

As for your opinions and comments, they have always been slanted to be anti east, all things east including USAPA. So once again, why the anti east stance?

 

[sharktooth]

Answered where? I didn't see an answer.

So here is a simple question for the USAPA advocates: if DOH is sacrosanct, why does it not apply to the Shuttle pilots?

Is it because the Shuttle pilots got their slotting through an ALPA process? But wait, isn't that what the AWA pilots got too . . .

Um, a little problem with your post.

The Shuttle dudes were not grandfathered into the US DB retirement plan and there was an issue as to whether the Shuttle dudes had signed away their DOH from Eastern, either issue well removed from any continuity with they AWA integration with US. To say that one is the same as the other requires ignoring significant issues.

 

[700UW]

let me ask again, what the Empire pilots?

 

[prechilill]

and you're fully defensive about the hose job Alpo geniuses did to the Mid Atlantic folks, ."

Look in the mirror if you would like to see who was responsible for the MDA abortion. It wasn't anyone at national but pilots wearing the USAir uniform. Where was your "resolve agains the ghastly injustice" back then? Where was the outrage against Herndon and your ALPA MEC? Silence... I can't seem to find any posts on this board (thank god for the archives!) which even comes close to the outrage you and your kind are expressing over a decision made in a process you agreed to.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Where was your "resolve agains the ghastly injustice" back then? Where was the outrage against Herndon and your ALPA MEC? Silence...

Yep, your right......silence. So where was the resolve? Good question. Lack of unity I propose, this pilot group hasn't been unified since 1989. Just one issue of many that individually couldn't do it. Finally, after so many years we are unified. Which is what you can't understand.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Look in the mirror if you would like to see who was responsible for the MDA abortion. It wasn't anyone at national but pilots wearing the USAir uniform. Where was your "resolve agains the ghastly injustice" back then? Where was the outrage against Herndon and your ALPA MEC? Silence... I can't seem to find any posts on this board (thank god for the archives!) which even comes close to the outrage you and your kind are expressing over a decision made in a process you agreed to.

All the contracts and LOAs are approved and signed by ALPA National. That puts ALPA in the hot seat, not the MEC. If the MDA guys paid dues and were not provided representation, then they have a case.

 

[EastUS]

Where was the outrage against Herndon and your ALPA MEC? Silence...

Be of good cheer on that score. There's a ready abundance of such outrage currently present...and LONG overdue by many years. Your entire position on the Mid Atlantic business is one of purely personal opportunism. You're fine with having them "properly" classified as "furloughed" for your own benefit, and would happily staple them and ANYONE/EVERYONE below your most junior sorts...of which you're apparently one of. If you would care for a small picture of what's wrong with Alpo...You would do well to look in the mirror. You would love to blame each and every line pilot for the continuous surrenders and perpetual obscenities created by Alpo sorts, during their cloistered, and mysterious "processes"....Good luck getting anyone out here to buy that BS.

It's far past time for a change.