US Pilots Thread 11/24-12/1-Discuss Pilot Labor Issues Here

[Metroyet]

PHILADELPHIA DOMICILE UPDATE
November 28, 2008

. To have achieved the admiration and respect, not only of our own pilots but of the pilots from American, Southwest, AirTran and many others in such short of a period of time, is proof that standing up for what we believe in is more than just a cause. It is about what is right for the pilots of US Airways.

The Biggest Lie of them all

USAPA and their reprehensible behavior are universally reviled by everyone I know at other airlines.

 

[Mtnman928]

The Biggest Lie of them all

USAPA and their reprehensible behavior are universally reviled by everyone I know at other airlines.

You must not know that many people at other airlines!

I've had just the opposite experience in my jumpseating adventures as well as with most other airline people that ride mine.

MM

 

[nycbusdriver]

Looks like they missed their chance to compromise. Now they find their so-called union in court. People like me are going to make sure that USAPA is going to answer for the deception. Sooner or later USAPA's lies will catch up with them. Just ask Bill Clinton how that works.

Bill Clinton left office with very high approval ratings, and a budget surplus. He lied about inconsequential matters, and the public saw through the Republican B.S. attempt to make something out of it. With that in mind and your Clinton example, I suppose the USAPA lies you are referring to are along the lines of "Stephen Bradford takes two teaspoonsful of sugar in his morning coffee, when in reality he SAYS he take his coffee black."

 

[cleardirect]

Bill Clinton left office with very high approval ratings, and a budget surplus. He lied about inconsequential matters, and the public saw through the Republican B.S. attempt to make something out of it. With that in mind and your Clinton example, I suppose the USAPA lies you are referring to are along the lines of "Stephen Bradford takes two teaspoonsful of sugar in his morning coffee, when in reality he SAYS he take his coffee black."

Bill Clinton may have left office with high approval ratings. That is just someone’s opinion. For a time Hitler had high public approval ratings also. But Bill Clinton also left office as an impeached president and a known liar.

I find it interesting that you qualify Clintons lies as inconsequential. That you have to make the distinction of degrees of a lie. That Clinton had to ask what the definition of “is“, is.

I don’t know that USAPA has “liedâ€￾ , more they were up front. What USAPA has done is over promise and under deliver. To me a far greater sin. The sad part is they did that to the east pilots yet you guys are still pie eyed and enamored with the direction they are going. The west saw the cliff they are trying to drive over and never got on the train.

The good part is coming though. USAPA had better be careful what they say in a court under oath. A little white lie could have big consequences. I think the judge is going to see through USAPA’s BS.

 

[pilotn79]

Bill Clinton left office with very high approval ratings, and a budget surplus. He lied about inconsequential matters, and the public saw through the Republican B.S. attempt to make something out of it. With that in mind and your Clinton example, I suppose the USAPA lies you are referring to are along the lines of "Stephen Bradford takes two teaspoonsful of sugar in his morning coffee, when in reality he SAYS he take his coffee black."

I prefer integrity over popularity. Any questions?

 

[Phoenix]

You must not know that many people at other airlines!

I've had just the opposite experience in my jumpseating adventures as well as with most other airline people that ride mine.

MM

The reliability of jumpseaters grateful for a ride might be about as good as junior at grandma's house commenting on how good the lutefisk tastes.

Even so, there is not one single argument one can make in favor of the NIC that is premised on what is best for the profession of aviation.

 

[Mtnman928]

The reliability of jumpseaters grateful for a ride might be about as good as junior at grandma's house commenting on how good the lutefisk tastes.

Even so, there is not one single argument one can make in favor of the NIC that is premised on what is best for the profession of aviation.

I was also referring to MY jumpseating on various airlines including United, American, Southwest and Continental. They of course could have turned me away or chewed my ear off in the cockpit. But no, they kept the atmosphere friendly and made me feel welcome, comfortable and usually said they hoped things turn out for the best. I don’t recall any of them speaking ill of USAPA or threatening to me to commuter H*ll in anyway. With every experience I was treated professionally and felt at home on their jumpseat though I was never offered any Lutefisk. :unsure:

MM

 

[BoeingBoy]

Even so, there is not one single argument one can make in favor of the NIC that is premised on what is best for the profession of aviation.

Kinda hard to imagine that the pilot group which threw the MDA folks under the bus by allowing the E170's to be sold out from under them is suddenly worried about "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Who ratified contract changes making them among the lowest paid in the industry is worried about "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Who ratified higher pay caps to offset some of that low pay, which resulted in their fellow pilots being on the street longer, are suddenly worried about "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Who accepted the lowest vacation accrual in the industry, which also resulted in their fellow pilots being of the street longer, suddenly worrying about "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Much easier to see a common thread - what's best for me...

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

Thank you for describing what happened under alpa (airline pilot association) union leadership. You forgot to add sir that they gave away a lot of your retirement pay and health benefits.

This why The Us Airways pilots voted alpa out.

Please save me the its your alpa not alpa national bs. This alpa leadership left many retired pilots bitter, lonely and staying up all night pathetically posting on a message board 24 hours a day.

 

[BoeingBoy]

This why The Us Airways pilots voted alpa out.

Thanks, I forgot that for a moment. A majority using it's voting power to change CBA's in an attempt to force it's will on the minority could certainly be considered doing what's in the best interests of the majority - not necessarily "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Please save me the its your alpa not alpa national bs.

I will - it was the majority of rank & file pilots who voted that brought all those to an airline near you. You know, the one's now so interested in "what is good for the profession of aviation." It's just a shame that they weren't as concerned about the profession when they cast those votes...

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

Kinda hard to imagine that the pilot group which threw the MDA folks under the bus by allowing the E170's to be sold out from under them is suddenly worried about "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Who ratified contract changes making them among the lowest paid in the industry is worried about "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Who ratified higher pay caps to offset some of that low pay, which resulted in their fellow pilots being on the street longer, are suddenly worried about "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Who accepted the lowest vacation accrual in the industry, which also resulted in their fellow pilots being of the street longer, suddenly worrying about "what is best for the profession of aviation."

Much easier to see a common thread - what's best for me...

Jim

Well, Know-of-All-Things,

Look in the mirror. You were a proud active member of ALPA when all of this transpired. What did you do to ameloriate the situation at the time?

 

[cleardirect]

The reliability of jumpseaters grateful for a ride might be about as good as junior at grandma's house commenting on how good the lutefisk tastes.

Even so, there is not one single argument one can make in favor of the NIC that is premised on what is best for the profession of aviation.

Maybe you could explain how disregarding binding arbitration is good for the aviation industry.

If USAPA sets the president that arbitration can be ignored. What happens to all of the deals past and future? The union over at Delta wins a contract arbitration. Management chooses to ignore it because they can. The flight attendants win an arbitration. America uses the USAPA case to say that binding does not really mean binding. They want to try negotiation now.

Watch the latest crew news. Parker went to great pains to twist the arbitration that it was an ALPA to ALPA arbitration. The next question went to Hemenway. He said that if section 29 went to arbitration it would be between USAPA and the pilot. Using their logic the company could ignore that arbitration because it did not involve them.

I find it ridiculous that USAPA can think of themselves as having the moral high ground in this situation.

 

[nostradamus]

." It's just a shame that they weren't as concerned about the profession when they cast those votes...

Jim


Why don't we break down the voting results by bases. Some bases were voting yes on every ballot put in front of them.

 

[Megasnoop]

Bill Clinton may have left office with high approval ratings. That is just someone’s opinion. For a time Hitler had high public approval ratings also. But Bill Clinton also left office as an impeached president and a known liar.

I was thinking about not posting anymore, but Clears latest off-the-wall, off-topic reply is too target-rich to pass up. Clinton DID leave the oval orifice with high ratings, not just "someones" opinion, but numerous national polls. Hitler, on the other hand, left office with fairly low ratings.

I find it interesting that you qualify Clintons lies as inconsequential. That you have to make the distinction of degrees of a lie. That Clinton had to ask what the definition of “is“, is.

goes to show, it really IS "the economy, stupid!", not who you never had sex with. Clinton also lost his law license for lying under oath. Thats called perjury.

I don’t know that USAPA has “liedâ€￾ , more they were up front. What USAPA has done is over promise and under deliver. To me a far greater sin. The sad part is they did that to the east pilots yet you guys are still pie eyed and enamored with the direction they are going. The west saw the cliff they are trying to drive over and never got on the train.

And who doesnt overpromise and underdeliver? Were only 9 months into USAPA. 2 huge TA disputes in the works, a win in both could bring everyone back from furlough. Of course youll spin it somehow as anothr usapa defeat. In the 2 1/2 years ALPO administerd the TA, how many disputes won in arbitration? zero. OBTW, having DOH in your constitution is not a lie, it is stated policy. If usapa cant deliver it wont be for not trying.

The good part is coming though. USAPA had better be careful what they say in a court under oath. A little white lie could have big consequences. I think the judge is going to see through USAPA’s BS.

The good part? Lie about what? Your west sabotage? Your intimidation of those who want to join? Your on-going jumpseat war? Clear, hard to figure where your mind is in stuff like this. The snooper