US Pilots Labor Discussion 5/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Kittyhawk]

I'm starting this thread to start a discussion among the rest of the groups to express how they feel over this embarassing and very public fued between our pilots (and to a lesser degree, our FAs). I understand the west view of how the east ignored binding arbitration, fired ALPA and started a new representation, in hopes of getting Nicolau overturned. I also understand the east view of date of hire is the fairest way to approach the transition, no pilot wants to sit right seat to a person that was in diapers when he/she started with the company. Pilots in the industry are ofter looked at as leaders, instrumental in setting the standard for the rest of the employee groups. US pilots are viewed as fighting siblings and cry babies, unable to meet as professionals to discuss there differences and find common ground.

We, as in the rest of the company, ask that you put your differences aside, start fresh, and come up with a solution that you can live with. GET IT DONE!!! If you continue to shove Nicolau down the throats of the east and seniority down the throats of the west than you will be fighting this until the attrition moves the majority of the current pilot staff out, and that will be decades away. Stop this us vs them attitude, it is not good for your careers or the rest of us at USAirways who want to have some pride in our jobs. And stop using the company as a reason for lack of progress, if the company has been successful in keeping the pilots from uniting, than shame on you for letting it happen.

MOD NOTE: This is a good start to the new pilots' thread--a reminder ALL forum rules still apply.

Some ground rules for this thread:
- No pilot bickering over who is right or wrong.
- No finger pointing, thats what got us in this mess to begin with.
- Keep in the spirit of explaining a view, and what we can do to move past the current situation.

 

[NAPAUS]

This "Spot ON". The pilots need to stop laying blame with mgmt and GROW-UP and be adults. Get it done folks, its way overdue! I continue to be embarrassed to have ever worked for US.

 

[Richard]

Sorry folks, I neglected to reopen this thread.

Carry on...within the rules of course.

 

[Metroyet]

We, as in the rest of the company, ask that you put your differences aside, start fresh, and come up with a solution that you can live with. GET IT DONE!!!

This can only happen if there are two sides. USAPA removed that. You can't hold a single party negotiation. All that's left is the courts. They say Nic. What else is there to do?

 

[Freebird]

This can only happen if there are two sides. USAPA removed that. You can't hold a single party negotiation. All that's left is the courts. They say Nic. What else is there to do?

Cleary and his band of degenerates can step down -OR- accept the Nic, and move on. Get us a contract.

Simple. We dont need the courts to tell us that the DOH pipedream is a joke and a total waste of time for ALL EMPLOYEES of US Airways.

 

[Freebird]

I'm starting this thread to start a discussion among the rest of the groups to express how they feel over this embarassing and very public fued between our pilots (and to a lesser degree, our FAs). I understand the west view of how the east ignored binding arbitration, fired ALPA and started a new representation, in hopes of getting Nicolau overturned.

aka Lack of commitment to an agreement. See ; Welching on a bet/deal




I also understand the east view of date of hire is the fairest way to approach the transition, no pilot wants to sit right seat to a person that was in diapers when he/she started with the company.

NWA/DAL and CAL/UAL dont agree. If East pilot went to Jetblue, he'd start at the bottom. What happened here is called Relative Seniority.

Pilots in the industry are ofter looked at as leaders, instrumental in setting the standard for the rest of the employee groups. US pilots are viewed as fighting siblings and cry babies, unable to meet as professionals to discuss there differences and find common ground.

We met. Couldn't agree. Hired an Arbitrator. He did his job. What part do the East pilots not understand here?


We, as in the rest of the company, ask that you put your differences aside, start fresh, and come up with a solution that you can live with. GET IT DONE!!!

It is done. Ask Cleary to drop the appeal, accept the NIC and direct the NAC to negotiate. He's going to lose/look bad either way. Why delay it?


If you continue to shove Nicolau down the throats of the east and seniority down the throats of the west than you will be fighting this until the attrition moves the majority of the current pilot staff out, and that will be decades away.

We arent shoving the NIC down anyones throat. Ask the East MEC about how they directed the Merger Commitee to 'shove' DOH down our throats. Ask USAPA how they intended to 'shove' DOH down our throats, thus costing them a DFR suit.

Ask em. In the meantime, Have Cleary put a contract up for a vote, IT WILL PASS, and we can move on....including you.


Stop this us vs them attitude, it is not good for your careers or the rest of us at USAirways who want to have some pride in our jobs. And stop using the company as a reason for lack of progress, if the company has been successful in keeping the pilots from uniting, than shame on you for letting it happen.

Most of the East guys I am in contact with are nice guys (to your face), its the AFO's who have a hard time accepting reality. Only USAPA is using the company as an excuse.

You see, it ALL comes back to the EAST pilots for not living up to their agreements. Blame them.


MOD NOTE: This is a good start to the new pilots' thread--a reminder ALL forum rules still apply.

Some ground rules for this thread:
- No pilot bickering over who is right or wrong.
- No finger pointing, thats what got us in this mess to begin with.
- Keep in the spirit of explaining a view, and what we can do to move past the current situation.

Why do you ask that we ignore the 800 lbs Gorilla called USAPA? They are to blame for this mess. Am I wrong? No.

 

[Coach Cabin]

.....We, as in the rest of the company, ask that you put your differences aside, start fresh, and come up with a solution that you can live with. GET IT DONE!!! If you continue to shove Nicolau down the throats of the east and seniority down the throats of the west than you will be fighting this until the attrition moves the majority of the current pilot staff out, and that will be decades away.

And if they absolutely CAN NOT find a way to resolve their differences, what would you suggest? Maybe binding arbtration?

 

[OTTER574]

I'm starting this thread to start a discussion among the rest of the groups to express how they feel over this embarassing and very public fued between our pilots (and to a lesser degree, our FAs). I understand the west view of how the east ignored binding arbitration, fired ALPA and started a new representation, in hopes of getting Nicolau overturned. I also understand the east view of date of hire is the fairest way to approach the transition, no pilot wants to sit right seat to a person that was in diapers when he/she started with the company. Pilots in the industry are ofter looked at as leaders, instrumental in setting the standard for the rest of the employee groups. US pilots are viewed as fighting siblings and cry babies, unable to meet as professionals to discuss there differences and find common ground.

We, as in the rest of the company, ask that you put your differences aside, start fresh, and come up with a solution that you can live with. GET IT DONE!!! If you continue to shove Nicolau down the throats of the east and seniority down the throats of the west than you will be fighting this until the attrition moves the majority of the current pilot staff out, and that will be decades away. Stop this us vs them attitude, it is not good for your careers or the rest of us at USAirways who want to have some pride in our jobs. And stop using the company as a reason for lack of progress, if the company has been successful in keeping the pilots from uniting, than shame on you for letting it happen.

MOD NOTE: This is a good start to the new pilots' thread--a reminder ALL forum rules still apply.

Some ground rules for this thread:
- No pilot bickering over who is right or wrong.
- No finger pointing, thats what got us in this mess to begin with.
- Keep in the spirit of explaining a view, and what we can do to move past the current situation.

usapa under mike clearly, randy mowrey, steve bradford and assisted by corrupt legal counsel lee seham was formed to break FEDERAL LAW.

Please give all on this chat room a definition of final and binding and where that should lead?

 

[nycbusdriver]

We dont need the courts to tell us that the DOH pipedream is a joke and a total waste of time for ALL EMPLOYEES of US Airways.

Except it is only the west pilots that have resisted DOH. It's already settled for all the other organized labor groups at USAirways, and they have DOH. I would call that far from being a waste of time. It's more like the trend.

 

[OTTER574]

Except it is only the west pilots that have resisted DOH. It's already settled for all the other organized labor groups at USAirways, and they have DOH. I would call that far from being a waste of time. It's more like the trend.

Seems dal-nwa didn't go the so-called-trend/gold standard/lee seham BS and for a reason.."It's already settled" is called the GEORGE NICOLAU award. It's done, complete and finished and carved in stone thanks to usapa founders/lee seham. But hey, keep your BS alive for a few more laughs. Damages will be pending and continue to add as we go forward to the damages trial. Approaching $500,000 and counting for my family and I and will be paid by usapa or any other union that represents US.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Seems dal-nwa didn't go the so-called-trend/gold standard/lee seham BS and for a reason.."It's already settled" is called the GEORGE NICOLAU award. It's done, complete and finished and carved in stone thanks to usapa founders/lee seham. But hey, keep your BS alive for a few more laughs. Damages will be pending and continue to add as we go forward to the damages trial. Approaching $500,000 and counting for my family and I and will be paid by usapa or any other union that represents US.

The post I was responding to referred to USAirways, not the industry. But the REAL pipe dream in all of this is the damages you westies are envisioning. Want to see some usually somber bankers get a belly laugh? Just go down to the bank and attempt to get a loan based on that half million you are so sure you are going to get.

 

[Phoenix]

Except it is only the west pilots that have resisted DOH. It's already settled for all the other organized labor groups at USAirways, and they have DOH. I would call that far from being a waste of time. It's more like the trend.

Touche'!

It appears you have exposed the West's argument is based on the sharp departure from the trend, as depicted on their hockey stick graph! Al Gore only dreamed of such a dramatic departure from the trend.

 

[OTTER574]

The post I was responding to referred to USAirways, not the industry. But the REAL pipe dream in all of this is the damages you westies are envisioning. Want to see some usually somber bankers get a belly laugh? Just go down to the bank and attempt to get a loan based on that half million you are so sure you are going to get.

No loan will be attempted my friend. My family and I live quite comfortably and I was taught never to trust others with our fate. Learned a long time ago not to trust a fool's errand so much like usapa and its corrupt ways.

Damages are pending and you will pay.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Except it is only the west pilots that have resisted DOH. It's already settled for all the other organized labor groups at USAirways, and they have DOH. I would call that far from being a waste of time. It's more like the trend.

It was the east pilots that resisted their legally binding agreement. How hard is it to understand what "binding" means?

Really? Blame the west for standing up to a group determined to destroy them?

 

[traderjake]

Want to see some usually somber bankers get a belly laugh? Just go down to the bank and attempt to get a loan based on that half million you are so sure you are going to get.

The same applies to the money we were not paid due to contract concessions.