US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[veritasaequitas]

OK Norma Rae, we heard your inspiring soapbox speech. Now, join the real world and accept reality.

3 responses to the same post from the same guy! FTW!

The reality is, no matter what the 9th, or the honorable Judge Wake finds, it is separate operations until a combined contract. What part of this do you not understand. I know you were a former gate agent for America West airlines and retired many years ago at an early age.,

Maybe you do not have the full understanding of the transition agreement,, which results in the ignorance of your understanding of the actual reality of the situation and is manifested by your corresponding statements on this matter.

 

[nic4us]

Within 2 yrs, if this piece of crap is still afloat, the east is going to be hiring HUNDREDS. Have you figured this out? We get the raises anyway, maybe the LOA 84 money, and you guys are out there looking in. And do you think any of these new guys are going to be interested in any of you jumping on them? Not with what they have coming, without you.

Actually, first the east would be recalling hundreds, 142 of which happen to be out of seniority West furloughs. Further, if the company does not recall them ahead of former east new hire furloughs, I would expect a grievence from usapa.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

The reality is, no matter what the 9th, or the honorable Judge Wake finds, it is separate operations until a combined contract. What part of this do you not understand. I know you were a former gate agent for America West airlines and retired many years ago at an early age.,

Maybe you do not have the full understanding of the transition agreement,, which results in the ignorance of your understanding of the actual reality of the situation and is manifested by your corresponding statements on this matter.

Not a gate agent, I worked in the HQ. Retired from the airline to bigger and better things. But this isn't about me, so refocus on the topic.

What part of "binding" don't you get?

 

[BoeingBoy]

it is separate operations until a combined contract.

Well, EoA (and somebody else - Hate or EastUS maybe?) says that USAPA will be gone if the 9th affirms Wake's ruling, so how long do you think it would take the company to impose a combined contract?

Then BS says the new hires will vote with the East but those new hires will be predominately be on Gp II (making all of about $60/hr) so will wait years for the attrition to increase their pay (after being furloughed 3 years and counting). They might just want a raise a little faster since they're going to be below everybody else no matter whether it's Nic or DOH. Why vote down a raise just to keep a shrinking group of pilots who can't live up to their agreements happy?

Everything I see indicates that once the 9th and LOA 93 arbitrator rule things will move along, leaving some in the dust.

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

Amazing, the drive to get the contract you think you need, to get what you want. We are going to deny you, pure and simple. Twist it anyway you wish, use any analogy you desire. You are not going to get it.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility for the BPR to agree to a side letter amending both east and west contracts to incorporate the Nicolau award as the list for the filling of vacancies and displacements and then put out a contract for a vote without this sticking point, if they were under sufficient outside pressure. They have proven their willingness to amend the west contract with the Age 58 bypass, why not implement Nicolau behind closed doors in order to avoid whatever ramifications may be coming their way as a result of the Addington suit?

Just a little perspective- that's how a screwball idea looks coming inbound.

 

[Freebird]

Don't be so certain about the protection of the Transition Agreement. Seriously, if that all you have to hang on to you're dreaming. USAPA's delay tactics...are not in compliance with the injunction and neccesity to bargain in good faith. Dont be surprised if the T/A is super ceded by the courts, abolishing you of your 'shelter'.

In the meantime, have your Napolean put up a contract to vote on and prove the East steadfast resolve. It' more like the Iraqi army.

Oh and B.S., seriously, 3 posts in a row. One more for you;

USAPA =.Leading the blind nowhere, but making good time !!!

 

[john john]

I know you were a former gate agent for America West airlines and retired many years ago at an early age.,

That is an oxymoron

 

[fr8tmastr]

What is really amazing, is how many people want a contract, any contract, no matter what is in it. This is the exact mentality that results in the race to the bottom.
What is the point of a new contract if our working conditions get worse, or the pay raise does not keep up with inflation? Pounding your chest screaming look at my new contract wont pay your bills.
I know the West want a contract, any contract so Nic will be implemented. But as sure as you all seem to be that the 9th will affirm your position, what is the hurry? We all have a crappy contract now, and will continue to work under the same crappy contract for the foreseeable future. "I want a contract now", well you have one now. Why not let the net one actually improve our lives a little bit.

 

[luvn737s]

What is really amazing, is how many people want a contract, any contract, no matter what is in it. This is the exact mentality that results in the race to the bottom.
What is the point of a new contract if our working conditions get worse, or the pay raise does not keep up with inflation? Pounding your chest screaming look at my new contract wont pay your bills.
I know the West want a contract, any contract so Nic will be implemented. But as sure as you all seem to be that the 9th will affirm your position, what is the hurry? We all have a crappy contract now, and will continue to work under the same crappy contract for the foreseeable future. "I want a contract now", well you have one now. Why not let the net one actually improve our lives a little bit.

Because no one contract is going to make massive improvements. Realistic people know that incremental gains are the best course to making improvements over time. We need to get past the joint contract in order to get onto the 2nd, 3rd, etc.

Fear is no justification for the status quo at all costs.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Not a gate agent, I worked in the HQ. Retired from the airline to bigger and better things. But this isn't about me, so refocus on the topic.

What part of "binding" don't you get?

In America West HQ. Quite a respectable position back then, was it not?

Separate operations until a combined contract was part of the transition agreement. What about that fact?

Bigger and better things? Your started at America West Airlines, what could of possibly be a step back from that?

 

[Phoenix]

Because no one contract is going to make massive improvements. Realistic people know that incremental gains are the best course to making improvements over time. We need to get past the joint contract in order to get onto the 2nd, 3rd, etc.

Fear is no justification for the status quo at all costs.

Oh. Who are we kidding. Nic at all costs would cause a massive improvement. Why merely shoot for incremental gains?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Separate operations until a combined contract was part of the transition agreement. What about that fact?

You had the same options under ALPA without paying millions for a failed attempt to discriminate against the west. Now you have even less as a result of hysteria, greed and narcissism.

 

[Poug Darker]

Actually, first the east would be recalling hundreds, 142 of which happen to be out of seniority West furloughs. Further, if the company does not recall them ahead of former east new hire furloughs, I would expect a grievence from usapa.

Yes, they should be recalled to reserve E190 FO spots on the east. Question is, will they take it? If they do, and then the west recalls, the next in line are the former east new hires who were in those 190 slots (check those payrates, folks!) who will now be recalled to the west to right seats on the 737 or 320.
Messed up, but that's it in a nutshell.
Cheers.

 

[CallawayGolf]

What is really amazing, is how many people want a contract, any contract, no matter what is in it. This is the exact mentality that results in the race to the bottom.
What is the point of a new contract if our working conditions get worse, or the pay raise does not keep up with inflation? Pounding your chest screaming look at my new contract wont pay your bills.
I know the West want a contract, any contract so Nic will be implemented. But as sure as you all seem to be that the 9th will affirm your position, what is the hurry? We all have a crappy contract now, and will continue to work under the same crappy contract for the foreseeable future. "I want a contract now", well you have one now. Why not let the net one actually improve our lives a little bit.

Right. Far better to wait for an incompetent fake union with zero credibility and zero negotiating power to finally waste enough money chasing a futile legal pursuit and come to their senses. Years from now they will produce the same contract you could have had now. Yep, illogical course of action will feed the family far better that moving forward with a reasonable contract with at least an incremental increase in pay. Sounds like you may be listening to the same caliber of financial advice as USAPA does at legal advice. Brilliant!

 

[veritasaequitas]

You had the same options under ALPA without paying millions for a failed attempt to discriminate against the west. Now you have even less as a result of hysteria, greed and narcissism.

What is the cost for a West Pilot, for a gold badge backer? What are the monthly cost of the other colors?