US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/13- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Richard]

Time for a new thread on the pilots' labor issue.

While the great majority of you have observed our last warning on the previous thread, some of you have come close to challenging us, which would have meant the entire thread would have been closed for a while....

You may comment all you want on the ISSUES, but NO PERSONAL COMMENTS REMARKS or posts targeting one specific poster...discuss the ISSUE not the POSTER.

The same policy will apply to this thread...one personal attack could get the whole thing shut down.

To those who are capable of following the rules, thank you.

To those who are not.....I strongly suggest you read the rules of the board again and THINK before you post.

Thank you.

 

[Freebird]

For those east pilots not as fortunate seniority-wise, they are also the most motivated to accept LOA 93 rather than give up any seniority they've earned and hand it over to relative newcomers to the industry.

LOA 93? Bring it on!



Thats Funny, "Relative Newcomers" do you mean the pilots who have more LOS than someone hired before them? The pilot hired in the late 80's who's been active for what 7-8 years when the merger took place?

Nic saw that it would be a "windfall" for the East to get DOH. It's over. He ruled. It was accepted. A contract WILL pass.

Relative Seniority ruled the day and will continue to rule in any and all future contracts. Period.

LOA 93, You're Living the dream, right?

 

[aquagreen73s]

"Winning Addington is the worst case scenario for the West pilots..."

There. It's over. And it's still the worst case scenario for the west.

Actually, it's "worse" for the West than that! We won the RICO suit as well! Oh my the agony! If we had only lost Addington AND lost the RICO, then we'd be in fat city!

 

[88 B.T.D.]

That kitchen table test is going to be very hard to get past. The east posters can say all they want , but LOA 93 is taking a huge toll.

I read on another board that a 5 year Jetblue captain makes 130 an hour up to 75 hours and then time and a half kicks in. With a 95 hour line, his blended hourly rate ends up being 150 an hour.

A 5 year jetblue guy on the EMB making more than most east captains.

Have you seen the Alaska contract? If any of you vote yes for any contract with something less than either of these 2 you are really selling out.

Do you seriously think the company has any plans of offering this kind of money without gutting the rest of the contract before a cooling off period?

My standards are higher and when polled will tell them realistically (AB, 737): 5 year FO-105 10 year FO-115 5 year CO-155 10 year CO-170. If you see these rates, West vacation, and a no furlough/active replacement per Transition agreement, you will probably pass by a few percentage points.

 

[hp_fa]

But what is the actual productivity and other stuff in that contract? (I don't know.) It is like Southwest in that their compensation and benefits are at the expense of having different scheduling and productivity items in their contract. My point is that you can't expect pay without productivity. I admittedly don't know the East pilot contracts, but I have read references to it here many times.

 

[Flippin43]

On American Idol, you see the wannabe contestants scream their lungs out, ruining eardrums and frightening small children. The Judges inject some reality. Then we see the contestants swear that the Judges don't know anything and that they, the contestant, are actually the greatest and they really can sing.

As you see them leave, Ryan Seacrest slips them a piece of paper with usapas phone number on it, telling them usapa will fix it for them since the Audition wasn't Binding.


Flip

 

[cleardirect]

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED in No. CV 08-1633
PHX-NVW in favor of the Plaintiffs and the class of all pilots employed by US Airways, Inc., in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005, that Defendant US Airline Pilots Association and its officers, committees, representatives, agents, and all persons in active concert and participation with them are permanently enjoined and ordered to:

A. Immediately, and in good faith, make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and implement a single collective bargaining agreement with US Airways that will implement the Nicolau Award seniority proposal unmodified, according to its terms;

B. Make all reasonable efforts to support and defend the seniority rights provided by or arising from the Nicolau Award in negotiations with US Airways; and

C. Not negotiate for separate collective bargaining agreements for the separate pilot groups, but rather negotiate for a single collective bargaining agreement for both pilot groups that incorporates the Nicolau Award. This injunction does not restrain USAPA from pursuing its rights under Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act, consistent with the previous sentence.

Just as a reminder there is a PERMANENT injunction on Defendant US Airline Pilots Association and its officers, committees, representatives, agents, and all persons in active concert and participation with them are permanently enjoined and ordered to:

So some of your dreams, theories, predictions that it will be 10 years 15 years whatever is merely dust in a tornado. The court order of “good faithâ€￾ would be violated by a delay of that length. A careful reading and a clever lawyer cold make the case that persons in active concert and participation could be meant to include the line pilot. While it would be difficult to put individuals in jeopardy the line pilot is represented by usapa. I would envision the judge ordering the us marshals to pick up a couple of named national officers to answer a few question from a jail cell.

Though a judge can not force anyone to vote for or against a contract I could see a judge’s order forcing a contract to be placed on the ballet for a vote. Judge Wake for some reason may not believe Seham when he tells him the contract would be turned down. The judge might want some evidence such as a vote. No violation of law to required a union to bring a contract for a vote. He is not telling you how to vote but just to vote on something.

Then we will see just how “resolvedâ€￾ the east pilots are to VNIIMN. Keep voting no but if the judge says the union will place a contract for vote every two months the east pilots may finally begin to understand that every contract will include the Nicolau seniority list. Nowhere in law could anyone justify a 10 year delay as being in “good faithâ€￾. My guess is on the outside one year but more likely 6 months before the judge decides his good faith has run out.

Just about the time the Ninth has ruled, the LOA 93 grievance results are known, the RICO suit could be dismissed AGAIN, and possibly the MDA suit dismissed by summary judgment.

Just so we know when those are all done and do not satisfy the east. Could someone tell us what the next delay or hope or straw is going to be?

I know the east pilots will start to demand that ALPA comes back and that will delay any implementation until that is finished. But judge Wake we just had a CBA change and we need time to get the NC up to steep and put the structure in place. We are going to need X years before a contract can be ready.

Stranger things have happened.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

VNIIMN

Vote No if it mentions NIC?

Very nasty incidence in managing NIC?

Velocity net inertia induces mexican narcotics?

 

[skyflyr69]

More to come, judge rules ALL parties must PRESERVE ALL data in regards to East pension termination.

Thank goodness !!! Our dues at work finally.

 

[Waketurbulence]

More to come, judge rules ALL parties must PRESERVE ALL data in regards to East pension termination.

That is pretty typical in ANY lawsuit...really not a bombshell.

Good luck though...sincerely.

 

[VAflyGal]

More to come, judge rules ALL parties must PRESERVE ALL data in regards to East pension termination.

Thank goodness !!! Our dues at work finally.

Um, not to be obtuse, but could you please translate this to flight attendant speak? I'm not sure what "preserving all data" means but my warped mind is picturing some old ladies in a courthouse basement canning some dot-matrix printout from an Apple IIC computer.

Will this lead to West outrage and some other lawsuit by some other angry party or does this help the entire pilot group at large?

Shanks.

 

[VAflyGal]

VNIIMN

Vote No if it mentions NIC?

Very nasty incidence in managing NIC?

Velocity net inertia induces mexican narcotics?

I've also wondered what these Dan Brown style Roman Numerals mean. How does one get indoctrinated into this "cool club of cryptic posters?"

Very normal intelligence is missing now?

Yep, sounds about right...

 

[hp_fa]

Will this lead to West outrage and some other lawsuit by some other angry party or does this help the entire pilot group at large?

The West is not involved with this suit and it is, I believe, be paid for entirely from a special assessment/collection of East pilots.

 

[boeingplt]

VNIIMN

Vote No if it mentions NIC?

Very nasty incidence in managing NIC?

Velocity net inertia induces mexican narcotics?

Of course, the antithesis is WSMMIIMN (would sell my mother if it means nic)

 

[cleardirect]

I've also wondered what these Dan Brown style Roman Numerals mean. How does one get indoctrinated into this "cool club of cryptic posters?"

Very normal intelligence is missing now?

Yep, sounds about right...

Not my code. Just speaking the language the natives understand.

This is a rally cry from the east. I think that they are going to be disappointed when they see the outcome of a vote.

VNIIMN= Vote No If It Means Nicolau