US/Delta Slot and Facility Swap at LGA

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways will not sell connections out of LGA, but US Airways will sell more connections from LGA out of DCA to 15 new markets and other current cities. And, US Airways will still sell connections from LGA through BOS.

For example, I spoke with a US Airways customer yesterday who flew from DCA to PHX. Instead of going non-stop to get a lower fare she flew from DCA to LGA to CLT to PHX.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[shaka]

USA320pilot,

Thank you for your remarks....truly insightful.

I think MWAA will move one of the carriers to the south pier. Probably United because they only do 1/2 the passengers that American does out of DCA. Frontier will go to the Banjo as will Alaska and Air Cananda. The South pier will house Delta/NWA, Continental and United. Since Delta is cutting its flights from 89 to 55 at DCA according to a press release seems as though the South Pier will be able to handle those 3 carriers and US Air and American will take the center pier.


However, I would think it is important to keep United close to US Air in the center pier because of the code share.

Your thoughts much appreciated.

 

[back2CLT]

I still don't understand what people don't grasp here:

If you run mainline to LGA, you need to serve big markets inside the perimter, which means you are competing with American, Delta, JetBlue and Continental in the NYC market. Cincinatti, Cleveland, Detroit, Baltimore, Columbus, Nashville, Raleigh, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, etc etc are all served by multiple carriers, in most cases at least 3 of the 4 mentioned. It's insanely cheap to fly to NYC, even next day, from any major market.

The only cities that have moderately high fares are smaller markets, which don't generate the passengers to justify mainline service. Due to higher operating costs, even with the moderately higher fares, most of these flights aren't profitable. The fares still aren't high enough due to at least 1 other competitior on almost every route.

DCA on the other hand has a much higher competitive advantage, given the premium to fly their as opposed to IAD or BWI is greater than LGA is to EWR or JFK. In fact, I prefer flying to EWR and taking the train, as opposed to taking a cab from LGA because I don't need to worry about traffic.

There are far fewer compeitiors in the market offering competition to major markets. There is usually not more than 1 or 2 competitors to major markets, meaning fares are higher. Combine that with the extreme preference for DCA, and fares are tremendously higher to DCA than to LGA.

Honestly, it seems that people on here think its ok to treat the New York market as some sort of loss-leader, and in some respects I understand that, but in an industry with as volatile earnings as an airline, I think its prudent to focus on financials as opposed to perception.

Let'd face it, US Airways is 4th in New York market share. Remaining 4th (or falling to 5th) isn't really going to hurt the brand, as much as dominating DC will help their brand.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Back2CLT,

Back2CLT said: "Honestly, it seems that people on here think its ok to treat the New York market as some sort of loss-leader, and in some respects I understand that, but in an industry with as volatile earnings as an airline, I think its prudent to focus on financials as opposed to perception. Let'd face it, US Airways is 4th in New York market share. Remaining 4th (or falling to 5th) isn't really going to hurt the brand, as much as dominating DC will help their brand."

USA320Pilot comments: I agree with you and your point is well taken. DCA has higher yields than LGA and US Airways will gain even more GSA business with service to many new state capitals. US Airways President Scott Kirby said in an interview, "The truth is we can better utilize the slots at National, and Delta can better utilize our slots at LaGuardia."

Airline consultant (one of the most respected people in the business), Darryl Jenkins, said the deals appear to be good for all the airlines involved. I agree, however, to provide a customer experience I expect from US Airways I strongly believe the Company must find a way to consolidate all LGA and DCA flight operations under one roof.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[RowUnderDCA]

eh, I don't care about consolidated facilities at LGA, but at DCA, it's probably a good idea.

I'd think you could make the banjo attractive to American as a dedicated facility. There is lots of potential to redevelop and reconstruct gates and ramp at the location of American's former gates. The curb wouldn't be ideal, but American could basically have all of it. And it's stylish!

Then LCC, UAL, CO and AC would locate to the two north piers (Terminal C), Delta would have the south pier (Terminal B). CO's old gates could be some of the smaller carriers that would also be accommodated amongst the 'alliance' carriers.

Unless LCC gets broken up or sold to AMR and/or UA gets shattered or any other reconfiguration, then who knows.

 

[shaka]

I do not think any of the major carriers will ever relocate to the banjo at DCA.

Those facilities are viewed as very inferior to the other terminal and passengers are not big on the "A" Concourse.

 

[Barrister]

PineyBob I agree with that statement. Spot on.

Don't worry Piney we are giving Delta fits on the PHL-ATL routes with our RJs.....NOT

 

[nycbusdriver]

And the Delta Shuttle Terminal....has nothing to speak of. And I think it just might piss people off to have to take a bus to get to the main terminal. What a ripoff.

Boo Boo Boo!!!

The idea of the shuttle is to provide transportation among the three large cities of the "northeast corridor," Washington, New York and Boston. I don't think anyone using the shuttle as it was designed will have a problem with "buses" to the main terminal. Why would they need to go to the main terminal? Shuttles aren't really intended to provide connecting service.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Tetorboro is there for the taking....

If TEB had the infrastructure and approval to support airline traffic, SWA would have been there years ago.

 

[FutureUScapt]

And, I’m fearful US Airways will use DCA’s Banjo Terminal on the south side of the field and bus passengers from Gate 35 to the former NWA gates like the company does with the Commuter World. Now US Airways will have two bus operations, one to the Commuter World and one to the Banjo Terminal, its main concourse, and the use of gates 23, 24, 25.

I’m hopeful US Airways can work out a deal with Republic to obtain gate 26, which is currently used by Frontier or some other option can be worked out with the MWAA and United or American on some kind of move, but DCA is going to have its challenges.

I truly doubt that US would be looking at any scenario involving them using the Banjo terminal, though that may be an unfortunate possibility in the interim. As it is now, US currently uses gate 26 when F9 is not there though as you suggest, I expect it would be quite easy to move them elsewhere.

eh, I don't care about consolidated facilities at LGA, but at DCA, it's probably a good idea.

I'd think you could make the banjo attractive to American as a dedicated facility. There is lots of potential to redevelop and reconstruct gates and ramp at the location of American's former gates. The curb wouldn't be ideal, but American could basically have all of it. And it's stylish!

Then LCC, UAL, CO and AC would locate to the two north piers (Terminal C), Delta would have the south pier (Terminal B). CO's old gates could be some of the smaller carriers that would also be accommodated amongst the 'alliance' carriers.

If you simply swap AA for CO and AC at the center pier, then that really won't end up giving US any additional gates.



Remember that if UA or AA is moved over to A, their club will also likely need to be relocated. This shouldn't be a big deal as NW has (or soon will) vacate their WorldClub in Terminal A.

Four gates (2-5) will be vacated when NW moves over with DL. UA currently has access to 3 gates in the center pier (27,29, & 31) while AA and Eagle currently have 5 (28,30,32-34). Either one could likely make the move to A though if it's UA, F9 could probably move over there as well.

 

[shaka]

As mentioned in an earlier post..NONE of the Major Carriers at DCA will move over to the A concourse. NO WAY...NO HOW.

THis includes American, Delta, United, Continental or US Air.

THey will all remain in the "prized" area of the airport.

 

[back2CLT]

The idea of the shuttle is to provide transportation among the three large cities of the "northeast corridor," Washington, New York and Boston. I don't think anyone using the shuttle as it was designed will have a problem with "buses" to the main terminal. Why would they need to go to the main terminal? Shuttles aren't really intended to provide connecting service.

My corporate travel agent once routed me BOS-DCA-GSP one with the BOS-DCA leg being the shuttle. I was sort of confused by it, but apparantly it allowed for the earliest arrival at Greenville of any other option....perhaps there were earlier flights that were full going through CLT, or EWR on CO or IAD on UA.

Anyway, I think that BOS-DCA-Somewhere using the Shuttle will become more common given the guarantee of good connections and the new expanded selection of cities/frequencies. I did prefer flying BACK to BOS through DCA on the Shuttle, because I never had to worry about missing my connection.

 

[flyus2]

I truly doubt that US would be looking at any scenario involving them using the Banjo terminal, though that may be an unfortunate possibility in the interim. As it is now, US currently uses gate 26 when F9 is not there though as you suggest, I expect it would be quite easy to move them elsewhere.



If you simply swap AA for CO and AC at the center pier, then that really won't end up giving US any additional gates.



Remember that if UA or AA is moved over to A, their club will also likely need to be relocated. This shouldn't be a big deal as NW has (or soon will) vacate their WorldClub in Terminal A.

Four gates (2-5) will be vacated when NW moves over with DL. UA currently has access to 3 gates in the center pier (27,29, & 31) while AA and Eagle currently have 5 (28,30,32-34). Either one could likely make the move to A though if it's UA, F9 could probably move over there as well.

US is supposed to get 3 more gates over where we have 23,24,& 25. When asked at the meeting if there was a contingency plan if we can't get those gates, the answer was we will get the gates

 

[US AIRWAYS FAN]

As mentioned in an earlier post..NONE of the Major Carriers at DCA will move over to the A concourse. NO WAY...NO HOW.

THis includes American, Delta, United, Continental or US Air.

THey will all remain in the "prized" area of the airport.

None of the airlines can make that call. The WMAA can move an airline as they see fit and they are the ones who make the decision on where the airline will be going at DCA if there is a move.

I can't find the document right now but there was an article on the WMAA website under the DCA section on how they assign gates and they re-evalute which airline gets X amount of gates and who might need to be moved. IF (and that's a big if) WMAA says that a certain airline needs to go to the A terminal....then they will need to go. If I can find a link to this document I will post it. I am not sure where it has gone to.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Delta, US Airways trade slots in New York, Washington

In a note to clients, Daniel McKenzie, an analyst at Next Generation Equity Research wrote: In contrast to deteriorating fundamentals at some other legacy carriers, (US Airways) fundamentals are improving. Less NYC flying & more international flying a good move for LCC, which lacks the frequent flyer loyalty to make NYC work as it should. Delta strengthens its brand, size and scale in NYC, and conversely bolsters corporate loyalty at the expense of (American) & (Continental).

See Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot