US Airways to keep $200M codeshare deal with UAL - for now

[Freighterguynow]

If US leaves Star or terminates its partnership with UA, they can forget about my business.

Well, they'll get mine BACK.

I can't tell you how many times I tried to connect out of Asia via SFO or LAX only to sit 4 or more hours in the airport waiting for a UAL flight to PHL. All the while, two or more US Airways flights had departed with open seats. Seems the connection via LAX-PHL (despite being a "codeshare" was cheaper on UAL than AAA in the travel computers; leading our travel desk to force me on United.

No more, I book anyone but the codeshare out of PHL now: usually American.
Oh, I live in PHL and I spend $5 - $10,000 per month on airfares.

 

[LCC_#1]

The hell there isn't.

Why exactly do you think US is starting non-stop service to Stockholm and Lisbon?

Hint: Stockholm is a hub for SAS. Lisbon is a hub for TAP Portugal.

Can you guess what those two airlines have in common?

If you answered "They're Star Alliance carriers," you win this RTFC coupon I have sitting on my desk.

Planes are getting leased and crews are getting hired back so that US Airways can capitalize on its transatlantic Star Alliance connections.

You are wrong on this one..sort of.

Maybe the destinations were tweaked for that pupose, but then PIEDMONT AIRLINES had plans to expand in many of the same cities that the now US Airways flies and are starting to fly. These destinations are 20 years late thanks to the small mindedness of then CEO Ed Colodny who dropped widebody orders and claimed that we would be THE domestic carrier, dropping any hopes of PIEDMONT's vision of internationally flying. Hence only ten 767's in the fleet.

Over the years, the different ceo's started seeing the light and remember that the entire reason for the the UA/US merger was to make US Airways into a GLOBAL carrier and Wolf knew the only way to do that was to merge with UA. When that failed, we did next best...alliance with United and STAR ALLIANCE.

You can spin it the way you want, but US wanted to expand into Europe waaaaay before UAL and STAR were in the equation. It's that we were behind the ball game and had no credit to truly expand. As long as we are IN STAR, Lisbon and Stokeholm only make sense, but to say it's THE reason...nah...been here long enough to know the history.

 

[whlinder]

Oh I how I have missed this...

There is reason to believe the alliance could die and be replaced by another transaction.

So the Star Alliance is going to die?

 

[US AIRWAYS FAN]

Even if UA wanted to throw US out of start. This would have to go in front of the board. LH is a founding member and so is AC and US has code shares with LH and I think soon to be with AC.

UA is not going to be the straw that breaks US. AC and LH will weigh in their thoughts. Sorry I don't believe this is all going to come down to UA. There are other founding members here.

US also code shares with JK (SpanAir.

I don't see US getting kicked out of *A

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

UAL supported US's application into the Star Alliance, but UAUA now has no authority to "kick out" LCC's membership. In fact, if you remember, other members of the Star Alliance had major problems with UAL's performance and dealings during their extended Ch.11 proceedings. UAUA may be the questionable member here considering our relationships with Lufthansia and Air Canada. The statement in the press was simply more editorializing by a poorly informed "reporter".

You are completely wrong! In fact, United CAN kick out LCC if they decide they don't like what LCC has to offer. I'd love to see your link that LH was having "major problems" with UAL. I do remember the complaining about US because of their terrible inflight accomadations though. United IS the star alliance....if you don't believe that, let LCC try to make a move that UAUA doesn't like and see what happens for yourself.

 

[ClueByFour]

Even if UA wanted to throw US out of start. This would have to go in front of the board. LH is a founding member and so is AC and US has code shares with LH and I think soon to be with AC.

UA is not going to be the straw that breaks US. AC and LH will weigh in their thoughts. Sorry I don't believe this is all going to come down to UA. There are other founding members here.

US also code shares with JK (SpanAir.

I don't see US getting kicked out of *A

UA is key to everything the *A does. LH is a close second.

UA sponsored US into Star. Nobody sponsored HP (or it's certificate) into Star, and that's why you can count on the fact that if UA wanted US out of Star, they'd be gone.

United probably wants US in Star. US should want to be in Star, since short of a minor miracle it'll be years before LCC can develop a network with the kind of reach of UA alone, much less the remainder of the *A.

 

[LCC_#1]

You are completely wrong! In fact, United CAN kick out LCC if they decide they don't like what LCC has to offer. I'd love to see your link that LH was having "major problems" with UAL. I do remember the complaining about US because of their terrible inflight accomadations though. United IS the star alliance....if you don't believe that, let LCC try to make a move that UAUA doesn't like and see what happens for yourself.

More the reason to change course and DUMP UAUA and STAR.

STAR and UAUA are a money sucking hole with a hierchy of the ones keeping the money (can you say Luftansa?) and those bending over to take it up the arse. (Can you say US Airways and Air Canada a close second and UA third?) Where is the money? Yeah, yeah, blame it on the screwed up American airline industry. Blame it on fuel prices. Wow, Luftansa must have a great deal with fuel because they have made a shiitload of profits. Hum...something smells fishy.

I DO NOT want ANY airline having the kind of power that you claim UAUA has, ESPECIALLY UAUA. If that IS the case, I as an employee truly RESENT that and feel it is time to get out now US Airways...or keep lubing up. Oh, but I forgot about all that feeding TA traffic. Please.. <_<

 

[BuffaloJoe]

I think domestically they should discontinue code share.

I flew UA 430 from SJC-ORD then supposed to fly 470 from ORD-PHL. 430 we started to takeoff then all of a sudden a ground hold was put on. We sat on the side of the runway for nearly 3 hours, not quite 3 hours but close. We were never givin an option of going back to the terminal and tried to reschedule.They were told that the ground hold would be lengthy 3-3 1/2 hours. The pilot said that the time always changes and usually for the better and he didn't want to loose his slot so we sat in between runways in SJC for nearly 3 hours. I knew that the rest of the connections would be late but we were in the last eastbound bank to head home from ORD. There was also a 2pm SJC-DEN flight that was realitively empty that I could of made givin a return to terminal. That would conect with a flight to PHL which had seats. I was on my cell phone with c/s in the plane. The group behind me were traveling to NYC. Watching the entire film, "Walk the Line", while sitting on the ground. We took off about 4:05 SJC time and made some time up just to be 2 Hours 10 minutes late arriving ORD. Still that left us there in ORD. Our flight to PHL was luckily the next gate and was arriving at the same time we did. We deplaned and the time was another 1 1/2 hours later, I figured that was to hold for other connections as well. We then went to a bar and had a slice of pizza, then returned to the gate. Then they had posted a 12:50am time for departure. I decided that I walk to the customer service counter to see what's going on, and by the time I got there UA cancelled the flight. They said they had a crew, but was a maintenance issue. The plane was at the gate. You tell me that there was no other A319/320 RON in ORD that they could have used?

OK here is my reason for NO to UA domestic codeshare. The past week and a half went by and that flight was on time or within 30 minutes of scheduled time 1 time. It consistantly gets delayed or cancelled. I wish I would have done my homework, but I thought UA was reliable.
Making those type flights codeshare with US attached, is bad for US as well. I understand that problems occur, but this is a pattern that is not good.

US is heading up and can't wait for US to serve PHL-SJC nonstop.

 

[hp_fa]

There is reason to believe the alliance could die and be replaced by another transaction.

Here we go again with mysterious stuff.....

Just what is "the reason to believe", other then a ouija board or Miss Cleo?

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

Are all things in life based around YOU or just when it comes to airlines? United consistently outranks US in on-time reports, so it must simply be about YOU.

If the pilot were to go back to the gate and the ground hold (which affected ever single airline that night) was lifted, would you then complain because United was at the gate instead of inline and now you missed your take-off? Ground delays are a reality and affect all the airlines equally. :down:

 

[LCC_#1]

Here we go again with mysterious stuff.....

Just what is "the reason to believe", other then a ouija board or Miss Cleo?

HP_FA

This is one man's opinion. It doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. So before anyone blast me, it is my O*P*I*N*I*O*N.

When Stephen Wolf took over US Airways, he talked about how we had to clean up our image, be the carrier of choice...as opposed to necessity, and become a global airline. To do this, he renamed us US Airways, ordered up to 400 airbuses to update the fleet, and ordered 30 widebodies to expand. he cleaned up the company and improved service considerably. The COST, however, was for the employees to give back to bring down our cost. Well, actually, it was more of a threat. I think Wolf was prepared to do what would eventually come our way thanks to 9/11.

I feel when Wolf was in charge of the daily operations, we were ran the best in the 19 years here. Our product was great and the airplanes were sharp. Then Gangwall took place and THATS when I saw the decline.

As our image improved and we were making money, we became attractive to potential buyers. All of us knew that it would take us YEARS to build any resemblence to a global carrier, so it only made sense when the proposed US/UA merger was announced. They had the global network AND STAR. There you have it...A Global carrier overnight.

Meanwhile, Wolf and Gangwal put ALL their eggs in the UAL basket. They had NO Plan B should THIS plan falter. BTW, Gangwal was quoted as saying this..What US Airways failed to understand was the growing resentment that the employee owned UAL felt about having this crammed down their throats. This angered many because as owners, they felt they had no say and I can't blame them. Also, many felt the asking price was too high and that United didn't NEED US Airways. Then came the DOH issue that turned the pilots and f/a off COMPLETELY. Things were looking bad at UAL as they were having their own labor issues. Why add to it with a merger. UAL management, I think feeling they alienated the real owners, asked the employees what they thought and well...the rest was history. UAL lost their will and didn't fight in DC for it, making US Airways look desperate at best for a savior. At the end of the day the govt was not impressed and it looked like they would work to block the deal. There was too much slick dealings going on that suggested that US/UA were unwilling to give back much that overlapped , giving them an edge over their competitors.

Meanwhile, during the process, a few overzealous US employee (one an A320 captain) said enough stupid things to cause a stir and after a while there were circles with US Airways written in it with a red line across the name...stickers given out and place all over ORD. Imagine the horror and embarrassment of seeing this. After awhile, it just seemed that UAL saw us as pest, but somehow felt badly for us, so they came up with an alternative. We would not be allowed to go to the prom WITH UAL, but they would make it possible for US to GO to the prom...so they invited us to join STAR....teeth grinding and all.

As all this went down the drain,again the alternative was to have UAL invite US into the STAR ALLIANCE which would kind of make us a global carrier in a less notible way. OK, here we go again. BA saved us before, but at least they gave us money. UAL was giving us...sloppy seconds.

The reason I say that is that in the time that we have been connected to UAL, there has been basically no true coordination of gates, inflight service, PR..nothing...nada!! We would mention UAL in our magazine and clearly mark where the UAL passengers on our flights should go. Our flight boards would have, for example US189 and right under it the UA flight, say UA589. Meanwhile, if you hop to a UA stronghold hub, you would see nothing.

Somewhere alone the way UAL managemnent instilled an attitude that we are just doing this because...and it appears that part was left blank. If you look on the UAL website, we are mention with the other STAR partners but nothing different even though we have this big alliance. The route map is nice enough to have our hub names in blue but the time tables only acknowledge that that United flight is operated by US Airways.

In the beginning, US Airways was happy to plaster UAL everywhere. Besides the flight boards, you don't see the UAL name around much.

As US entered Ch 11 and our management team SLASHED our service to embarrassing levels, I feel this turned UA and STAR off. More and more, most of us at US feel UA would prefer us to just go away. Our planes are chipping paint, the interiors are filthy, inflight sucks...hell, we can't even put the damn Star Alliance sticker on right. Can you blame UA for distancing from US?

US made no attempt to understand that that they were driving customers TO United and away from US. Isn't the dollar amount greater on the airline you originate with? UA continued a lavish F/C service. They offered real meals in coach at the time. Their movies intl AND domestically were free. They gave free booze internationally. At the time, our obituary was being prepared. It wasn't pretty.

Now we are becoming a LCC and while UA had TED, they are still more inline with the service Luftansa offers, so are we too cheesy for STAR or just for UAUA? I don't think UAL ever really put much heart into out alliance. It shows all over the system.

So now we are with you guys and overlap ALOT more than before merger. We gave up the west coast once and since our headquarters is BASED out west, I just don't think DOUG will give in to any threatening bullcrap that UAUA may feed them. All of a sudden we are invading the west coast prom and it sounds like UAUA has the potential to just shut the prom down.

If UAUA has THAT much power, do you REALLY want to be associated with the likes? If we are going to have to answer to a fellow formal CH 11 carrier, I fear for our livelihood. If they DO have the power to pull the plug, it isn't worth being under their potentail threats. It's time to cut and run. If we were THAT important to UAUA, they would be kissing our butts to stay and so would STAR. The headlines tell me....oh...oh...ok..uh..for now...well...I guess.......we'll put up with them. Pretty!!

I have NO LOVE LOST FOR UNITED!! Their employees will sing a different song and I'm sure many will come here and tell THEIR side and twist mine. I could care less. We made ALOT of mistakes but I think it has taken alot of years for US to finally see that it's no fun to just be put up with. And that's how it feels with UAUA...like they are collectively shaking their heads, rolling their eyes and letting out a huuuh!!

Any benefit to staying in STAR will NOT be UAUA...if there ARE actually any. Oh I forgot I can now go from Greenville, NC thru Charlotte to Bejing "seamlessly". Yeah!!

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Are all things in life based around YOU or just when it comes to airlines? United consistently outranks US in on-time reports, so it must simply be about YOU.

If the pilot were to go back to the gate and the ground hold (which affected ever single airline that night) was lifted, would you then complain because United was at the gate instead of inline and now you missed your take-off? Ground delays are a reality and affect all the airlines equally. :down:

Just go Look at the HISTORY of those two flights? 1 day a month on-time? Numerous times cancelled. and the rest, you get in by daybreak. When I am paying for a ticket, it is about ME, I am a CUSTOMER. Something that that they need to address. I am aware that there are problems with every airline. But when there is a PATTERN with certain flights being cancelled and delayed, I would think that would require attention. PHL-ORD route is supposed to be one of UA's Business First routes.

Going back to the gate, I would of had more options. I and Others were better stranded in San Jose instead of some place in the middle. My flight was not the only one cancelled that night. But I could of been able to do that DEN connection or either opted to travel back the next day. Or even I was willing to fly back via SFO, 2 red-eyes to choose 1 UA 1 US. I was willing to pay out of my wallet the cost of transfering between the airports, but that would have been very minumun, $6?

Weather delays are understandable, such as today. UA 430 is still in SJC as of 7:15p ET/4:15p PT.

But the point I am making is not just the flight that day I was on, its the pattern of the flights in question. 430/470. being consitantly delayed and cancelled. Weather has not been that bad to do that so often.

 

[LCC_#1]

United consistently outranks US in on-time reports, so it must simply be about YOU.

REALLY?

Then how come I have received $50 for the last 4 months for being at the top of the list in OTP in our tier group, which includes UAUA.

Let's see .... 30,000 people have the check stubs PROVING the incentive awards for the last 4 months. That's $200x30,000. I highly doubt Doug Parker would lie and bite millions.

Please do your homework before you mouth off. You just made a FOOL and LIAR out of yourself.

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

If that is truly the reality (don't have time or desire to look up so I will take your word for it) then United should address that particular flight. Yes, YOU are the customer BUT so are all the other people on those planes and it is the responsibility of the Captain to ensure that they are given the best chance of reaching their destination in a timely manner. Therefore, had the Captain gone back to the gate to accomadate you and the other people who were already connecting so they didn't really care about this particular flight, and the slot was lost, then it would be his responsibility to explain why he chose to abandon his slot.

I just went to the Dept of Transportation and you are correct. US did beat UAL for ontime and I appologize for my error.

 

[LCC_#1]

AGAIN, Deleted by Moderator

REALLY?

Then how come I have received $50 for the last 4 months for being at the top of the list in OTP in our tier group, which includes UAUA.

Let's see .... 30,000 people have the check stubs PROVING the incentive awards for the last 4 months. That's $200x30,000. I highly doubt Doug Parker would lie and bite millions.

Please do your homework before you mouth off. You just made a FOOL and LIAR out of yourself.