US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 12/16-22

[nycbusdriver]

Yup,

It's working beautifully too I might add.

USAPA will be gone, BK'd, or fundamentally overhauled by Summer 09. Assuming this airline is still around then.

You may be correct. One thing to keep in mind, though.

If USAPA leaves for whatever reason by Summer, 2009, we will be a NON-UNION shop until at least the Spring of 2010. The NMB rules do not permit another election for two years after the previous one. If anyone is under the impression that ALPA will automatically come back, be assured that is not the case.

Once the union is gone, Parker has carte blanche to change our working conditions at will because there will be no contract in place. Without a CBA, the contract goes bye-bye.

At long last, the west will then get a taste of LOA 93 and worse.

Then, assuming we can even get enough ballots for a new election in 2010 and actually get a union on the property again, we get to start from square one on a new contract. That will likely take years.

But at least we will no longer have to worry about the TA and how to figure out how that works. We will no longer need to be concerned that the company is meeting minimum fleet size, since there will be none. Any and all unprofitable flying will go away immediately on the death of USAPA, along with the airframes.

And Parker alone will get to decide on how to handle seniority. Absent a union and a contract, he can just line us all up by height, or age, or weight and go from there.

And we will no longer have to worry about the Nicolau list. Yeah!

 

[Elevation]

And Parker alone will get to decide on how to handle seniority. Absent a union and a contract, he can just line us all up by height, or age, or weight and go from there.

And we will no longer have to worry about the Nicolau list. Yeah!

I think Judge Wake will give explicit instruction on how the Nicolau arbitration should be handled, so even Doug & co. would be clear on what they must do...whether there is a union or not.

 

[electricjet98]

If USAPA leaves for whatever reason by Summer, 2009, we will be a NON-UNION shop until at least the Spring of 2010. The NMB rules do not permit another election for two years after the previous one. If anyone is under the impression that ALPA will automatically come back, be assured that is not the case.

You may be right, but I wouldn't so sure about that. I would think that the "two-year limitation" it to keep an existing union from continually being challenged by another. If a union, in this case USAPA, were to disolve there would be no reason for that protection. I don't know if this question has come-up before...It may need to go directly to the board for resolution.

Once the union is gone, Parker has carte blanche to change our working conditions at will because there will be no contract in place. Without a CBA, the contract goes bye-bye.

Once again you may be assuming too much. It's quite possible that "status quo" would lock-in the current agreements. Administering would be a problem. Of course, that's all dependent on your first assumption being correct.

At long last, the west will then get a taste of LOA 93 and worse.

LOA 93? As in Joint Contract ala Hemenway letter? I guess that would be one way to have the court mandate the Nic's immediate implementation!

Basically, a whole lot of questions that nobody here has the definitive answers to.

 

[hp_fa]

Once the union is gone, Parker has carte blanche to change our working conditions at will because there will be no contract in place. Without a CBA, the contract goes bye-bye.

If that were to occur isn't that a really good reason for USAPA to accept Nicolau and move on rather than potentially allowing that scenario to occur?

 

[Metroyet]

You may be correct. One thing to keep in mind, though.

If USAPA leaves for whatever reason by Summer, 2009, we will be a NON-UNION shop until at least the Spring of 2010. The NMB rules do not permit another election for two years after the previous one. If anyone is under the impression that ALPA will automatically come back, be assured that is not the case.

Once the union is gone, Parker has carte blanche to change our working conditions at will because there will be no contract in place. Without a CBA, the contract goes bye-bye.

At long last, the west will then get a taste of LOA 93 and worse.

Then, assuming we can even get enough ballots for a new election in 2010 and actually get a union on the property again, we get to start from square one on a new contract. That will likely take years.

But at least we will no longer have to worry about the TA and how to figure out how that works. We will no longer need to be concerned that the company is meeting minimum fleet size, since there will be none. Any and all unprofitable flying will go away immediately on the death of USAPA, along with the airframes.

And Parker alone will get to decide on how to handle seniority. Absent a union and a contract, he can just line us all up by height, or age, or weight and go from there.

And we will no longer have to worry about the Nicolau list. Yeah!

All True. Remember this, If any of this happens, the East pilot group is singularly responsible for all of it. You guys have done more to damage this profession than any management group in history.

 

[luvthe9]

All True. Remember this, If any of this happens, the East pilot group is singularly responsible for all of it. You guys have done more to damage this profession than any management group in history.

Spoken from a group with on the property, that's rich!!!!

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

If that were to occur isn't that a really good reason for USAPA to accept Nicolau and move on rather than potentially allowing that scenario to occur?

DING DING DING..........WE HAVE A WINNA !~!~!~!!!

 

[Metroyet]

Spoken from a group with SCABS on the property, that's rich!!!!

I know!! I used to think that crossing a picket line was the worst thing a fellow pilot could do to another...until I met USAPA. :down:

A new form of terrorism.

 

[johnnyfleet]

Question for the East.


Do you think most east pilots would accept the Nic if there were provisions made for all East attrition?

 

[fatherabraham]

Question for the East.


Do you think most east pilots would accept the Nic if there were provisions made for all East attrition?

Would be UGLY, but I do not think the house would come down. With a Nic cramdown (as is), all bets are off.
FA

 

[cactusboy53]

You may be correct. One thing to keep in mind, though.

If USAPA leaves for whatever reason by Summer, 2009, we will be a NON-UNION shop until at least the Spring of 2010. The NMB rules do not permit another election for two years after the previous one. If anyone is under the impression that ALPA will automatically come back, be assured that is not the case.

Once the union is gone, Parker has carte blanche to change our working conditions at will because there will be no contract in place. Without a CBA, the contract goes bye-bye.

At long last, the west will then get a taste of LOA 93 and worse.

Then, assuming we can even get enough ballots for a new election in 2010 and actually get a union on the property again, we get to start from square one on a new contract. That will likely take years.

But at least we will no longer have to worry about the TA and how to figure out how that works. We will no longer need to be concerned that the company is meeting minimum fleet size, since there will be none. Any and all unprofitable flying will go away immediately on the death of USAPA, along with the airframes.

And Parker alone will get to decide on how to handle seniority. Absent a union and a contract, he can just line us all up by height, or age, or weight and go from there.

And we will no longer have to worry about the Nicolau list. Yeah!

Who said we 'wanted' ALPA anyway. ALPA was the most logical choice for anyone on the west side, and anyone on the east side that knew that DOH would not fly and desired a pay raise (who knew that there were that few logical thinkers??).

If USAPA goes banko, we could usher in the Cactus Association for Transportation / Navigation International Plan (or CATNIP for short)!!

Parker is waiting for the Judge to TELL him how seniority is going to go. If Judge Wake returns a decision favoring the west, Parker will shake his head gently and tell Bradford..."Sorry Steve, I did my best. I going to have to follow the Judge's ruling. You understand, don't you??"

Just because a union goes out of business does not negate a Judge's ruling. Something tells me that this case will include instruction based a a variety of outcomes and future outcomes. Pity, it could have been as simple as returning to the negotiation table and hammering out a new contract when TIMES WERE GOOD. Oh well, that ship has sailed. Parker does claim that under the Kirby proposal, the company would still be in a position to move on in this economy.

WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET?? And NO, I'm not referring to a Capital One Card.

 

[luvthe9]

I know!! I used to think that crossing a picket line was the worst thing a fellow pilot could do to another...until I met USAPA. :down:

A new form of terrorism.

Spoken like a true .

 

[V1cut]

At the risk of "deepening the west resolve" I can tell you that aside from the top 517(+/-) that no East pilot will accept the Nic, period. It is and was the final straw for ALPA on the property, and for the FO's who have been in 22+ years of uninterrupted service to the company, they will not sit back and watch their seniority evaporate before their eyes without a bloody battle...it is all they have left after a career of concessions to keep USAir afloat....and while you on the West think thats unfair, that just too bad. Sans those continual concessions on the East, there would be no "East propping up the whole airline" right now...(SK quote).

Time will tell just how this plays out, but rest assured, the East pilots are every bit as serious as you West guys are about this. USAPA is far from being BK...despite your frothing at the idea. The rumor-mongering by you to try to "speculate it into reality" is just silly.

I know how much "love" there is between East and West...and how Parker is capitalizing on it...but thats just a price we are all going to have to pay for this issue. There's no backing down in the future from the East...and obviously not from the West either.

It is what it is.

Gotta go buy a nice Monza Red '69 427 'vette now...and put a red bow on it for my wife....bye..

 

[cleardirect]

You may be correct. One thing to keep in mind, though.

If USAPA leaves for whatever reason by Summer, 2009, we will be a NON-UNION shop until at least the Spring of 2010. The NMB rules do not permit another election for two years after the previous one. If anyone is under the impression that ALPA will automatically come back, be assured that is not the case.

You are correct. There would have to be an election. If it happens at that time or we have to wait is a big question that needs to be answered.

Once the union is gone, Parker has carte blanche to change our working conditions at will because there will be no contract in place. Without a CBA, the contract goes bye-bye.

Incorrect! Status quo prevails. The contracts and the T/A stays in place. Remember RLA contracts do not expire they become amendable. Nothing changes.

At long last, the west will then get a taste of LOA 93 and worse.

Then, assuming we can even get enough ballots for a new election in 2010 and actually get a union on the property again, we get to start from square one on a new contract. That will likely take years.

Not necessarily. USAPA did not start from square one. They used much of what was previously agree to.

But at least we will no longer have to worry about the TA and how to figure out how that works. We will no longer need to be concerned that the company is meeting minimum fleet size, since there will be none. Any and all unprofitable flying will go away immediately on the death of USAPA, along with the airframes.

Incorrect. The contracts stay in place. Enforcement becomes an issue. But there are many airlines that are not unionized and manage to enforce their contracts. We would set up a basic committee structure. Difficult yes but not without the ability to enforce contracts

And Parker alone will get to decide on how to handle seniority. Absent a union and a contract, he can just line us all up by height, or age, or weight and go from there.

And we will no longer have to worry about the Nicolau list. Yeah!

Incorrect! The judge will have the final word on the seniority issue. He has said so in a couple crew news now. He will be bound by what the judge determines.

 

[Phoenix]

..

Gotta go buy a nice Monza Red '69 427 'vette now...and put a red bow on it for my wife....bye..

Don't forget the golf clubs for the trunk and season tickets for the glove box.