HPearlyretiree
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- Nov 6, 2002
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Your poll question is of the "have you stopped beating your wife" variety.
Take the political rant somewhere else
Take the political rant somewhere else
US Airways has chosen to stand against the American people ….
- Thread starter freedom
- Start date
OP
freedom
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- Feb 15, 2006
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #17
Hey , don't blame me .... i'm not the one who chose to inject our company's name in the illegal immgration issue .... talk to doug parker ... If he's going to use our company to push his poltiical or economic views , well then as a worker i've got a right to share mine and push back ..
nycbusdriver
Veteran
Jeez!
On another USAirways thread Arizona, and Phoenix in particular, is constantly painted as an economically vibrant paradise.
Which is it?
SparrowHawk
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- Nov 30, 2009
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NO you take your sorry arsed apologies elsewhere!
For YEARS we've been listening to the head drunk of US Airways pontificate. Time to let his words speak for themselves. Why should I interrupt?
His credibility with me is zero and with comments like this it degrades to less than zero. He (Parker) is devoid of morals, values, ethics and his comments prove it. No need for me to interrupt.
ChockJockey
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- Dec 18, 2008
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Hark, read ye my omnibus reply, or skip it. I don't care, I'm not doing this for the critics.
Let us be clear: our dissension with legislative action on the state level does not translate to our being “pro-illegal immigration.” To the contrary, we believe Congress must address border security, identity theft, sound and implementable employment verification systems and policies and the creation of a meaningful guest worker program. Therefore, we urge the Legislature to redirect its energy by joining us in pressing the federal government for meaningful immigration reform. Together, we can get results.
As such, simply because these several CEO and business representatives don't agree with the roughshod, amateurish, wasteful way that the Arizona Senate is pursuing the issue doesn't mean they're derp derp pro-illegals as much as you'd like to make them out to be.
lol
People seem to forget that we're talking about a social group that's inhabited and has meandered around this part of the country even before there was a United States. When there were fields to be picked, they came and went, ebb and flow, and when Arizona's decades-long construction boom lit up in the 1950's the developing class and construction people were delighted at the availability of cheap labor, and so long as business was booming, no one really cared all that much that so many of these people didn't have papers. People complain because illegals keep wages down (although I think Wal-Mart's got them beat in that respect), but they also kept the cost of living down as well...
Come 2008 and the housing bubble bursts, and it burst here in AZ pretty hard. Suddenly state revenues went down. Profits went down. Construction ground to a halt. The jobs dried up, and then disappeared. Scapegoats were needed, and distractions! And suddenly, those who'd for generations picked our food, built our skyscrapers, poured our concrete and put down our freeways and highways with the strength of their backs and sweat of their brow were invaders. Criminals! ILLEGALS!
For so long we couldn't live without them, and now, suddenly, we can't afford to have them around, and by God, patriotic Americans are doing something about it!
Flagrant hyperbole, though entertaining, is terribly misleading. For shame. Complete and utter Federal inaction? There's no Border Patrol? No Customs? No DEA? The FBI's not doing anything around the border? Obama didn't deploy National Guard troops while they were hiring and training more BP agents? No bilateral cooperation with Mexican authorities? No recently disclosed drone flights over Mexican territory tracking the cartels? The Federal government is spending $0 on the border every year eh?
The problem most people have with Arizona's SB1070 and its subsequent legislation along the same line is on Constitutional grounds. Specifically, the 1st, 4th, and 14th Amendments (heard of them?) as well as the Supremacy Clause. The one thing that's frightened me more than anything about all this immigration stuff is how many people (most, if the polls are to be believed) would gladly weaken their own rights and civil liberties if it meant taking those rights and liberties away entirely from others. The most common psychological error people make when considering political and social issues is in assuming that those issues for which they think about the most or feel the most passionately are necessarily the most pressing, vital, and vastly important issues of the day. Can you really say that you consider illegal immigration, which Arizona has lived well enough with for the duration of its life (and has even been declining somewhat), is such a massively deadly problem that you're willing to have to prove your citizenship every time you do business with a state or every time a cop asks you? What do you say comrade?
What happens when the politicians and media serve up the next social/poltical crisis (terrorists/Muslims/homegrown radicals), what will you then sacrifice to solve it?
First off, Parker didn't draft this letter, he just put his name to it. You might want to read it again though I understand with the patriotic flute and marching drum music that's probably blaring in your head it may be difficult to concentrate.
Do you know who's probably complaining least about teenage employment being so low? Teenagers. You think most of these kids want to dig ditches eight hours a day when it's 115 degrees outside? How many teenagers do you know that have years if not decades of construction and farm experience? Do you think that this the PS3 generation is so thoroughly bummed at not having the esteemed position of cleaning up the champagne vomitus from around the commode in the Ladies room at the Black Angus?
Protip: Most Americans don't want the jobs illegals are doing, that's partially why there was a demand for illegal labor in the first place.
Dear readers, friends, the above snippet is a perfect example demonstrating why so many today are absolutely in love with Taking a Stand Against Illegal Immigration™. It's empowering. Choosing a side and solidifying firm convictions, and convincing oneself, that yes, in these times of tumult and economic uncertainty, we have seen the enemy, and he used to make our burritos! People love to take sides and fight valiantly for that side they know to be Good and Right: the side they happen to be on(*cough* pilot's thread *cough*). It's a logical and predictable cathartic displacement and venting of frustration that must be necessarily aimed at another group for the sole purpose of making one feel better about his own convictions and place in the world. And one blows a perceived threat out of proportion in proportion to the amount of psychological comfort he needs to derive from addressing it.
Next caller.
Maybe it's not what these people don't understand but what they do understand. If very suddenly the 11-13 million illegal immigrants in the country disappeared, what do you think the economics effects would be? Yes, they are here I L L E G A L L Y but they also spend a lot of money on consumer goods and service as well. States love to talk about how much it costs them to educate, medicate, and incarcerate illegal immigrants, $2.2 billion in Arizona alone, and yet, they say nothing about what State revenues are from illegals, granted this because that can't be easily ascertained. People want the illegals to disappear; so be it, just be careful what you wish for.
And how exactly do we "stop" them, especially the fact that many have and do risk death to get here, and can we really say the complete foolproof method of doing so including physical barricades, enforcement and equipment is going to cost less than simply including them in our society?
Next caller.
Straw man argument. None save for a few nuts on fringe are advocating 100% open and unpatrolled borders. Most reasonable people see the need for border security. As you pointed out earlier, the larger problem is Federal inaction, not to say the President hasn't attempted to push the issue, but Congress seems to have more pressing concerns at the moment. Until that time the several states can pass unconstitutional laws until they're blue in the face but until there's comprehensive national immigration reform they're just spinning their wheels, wasting their time, and making life more difficult for all their residents.
And you're right, we're Americans gosh-dangit, we shouldn't have to be constantly reminded of the vagaries of the third world. Although, I do have to say, I find it funny when people in the richest, most obese and over-entertained country in the history of the world complain about people coming in trying to get a piece of the pie.
What do you think is going to happen when you have a few hundred thousand people who are afraid of the police, are afraid to go to hospitals, are denied even basic education, are allowed no opportunities, i.e. no future? Especially with the booming drug trade (a whole other can of worms) and a state filled with firearms? Instead of wasting time on multiple versions of crappy state legislation we should be pressuring Congress to finally take up immigration reform. We should make it so that all residents feel that they can trust the police in working with them (thus making neighborhoods safer and isolating the cartels). We're sending our soldiers and marines half way around the world to get blown up trying to secure freedom and rights and democracy for people that don't even really want it and yet we're unwilling to give those blessings of freedom and education which are already rare in this world to the people washing the dishes at the Pei Wei down the street? How about giving them a buy-in to our society so they feel they have a reason to work with it and protect it.
In conclusion, I support Mr. Parker's endorsement of said letter.
Edit: Don't forget to check the red minus "dislike" button over here --->
I first take issue with the subject of this post. It suggests to me that maybe you didn't read the entirety of the letter, in which is included:
Let us be clear: our dissension with legislative action on the state level does not translate to our being “pro-illegal immigration.” To the contrary, we believe Congress must address border security, identity theft, sound and implementable employment verification systems and policies and the creation of a meaningful guest worker program. Therefore, we urge the Legislature to redirect its energy by joining us in pressing the federal government for meaningful immigration reform. Together, we can get results.
As such, simply because these several CEO and business representatives don't agree with the roughshod, amateurish, wasteful way that the Arizona Senate is pursuing the issue doesn't mean they're derp derp pro-illegals as much as you'd like to make them out to be.
Oh heavens! If only they knew freedom! A veritable horde of Mexicans streaming across the border in waves!
lol
People seem to forget that we're talking about a social group that's inhabited and has meandered around this part of the country even before there was a United States. When there were fields to be picked, they came and went, ebb and flow, and when Arizona's decades-long construction boom lit up in the 1950's the developing class and construction people were delighted at the availability of cheap labor, and so long as business was booming, no one really cared all that much that so many of these people didn't have papers. People complain because illegals keep wages down (although I think Wal-Mart's got them beat in that respect), but they also kept the cost of living down as well...
Come 2008 and the housing bubble bursts, and it burst here in AZ pretty hard. Suddenly state revenues went down. Profits went down. Construction ground to a halt. The jobs dried up, and then disappeared. Scapegoats were needed, and distractions! And suddenly, those who'd for generations picked our food, built our skyscrapers, poured our concrete and put down our freeways and highways with the strength of their backs and sweat of their brow were invaders. Criminals! ILLEGALS!
For so long we couldn't live without them, and now, suddenly, we can't afford to have them around, and by God, patriotic Americans are doing something about it!
Flagrant hyperbole, though entertaining, is terribly misleading. For shame. Complete and utter Federal inaction? There's no Border Patrol? No Customs? No DEA? The FBI's not doing anything around the border? Obama didn't deploy National Guard troops while they were hiring and training more BP agents? No bilateral cooperation with Mexican authorities? No recently disclosed drone flights over Mexican territory tracking the cartels? The Federal government is spending $0 on the border every year eh?
The problem most people have with Arizona's SB1070 and its subsequent legislation along the same line is on Constitutional grounds. Specifically, the 1st, 4th, and 14th Amendments (heard of them?) as well as the Supremacy Clause. The one thing that's frightened me more than anything about all this immigration stuff is how many people (most, if the polls are to be believed) would gladly weaken their own rights and civil liberties if it meant taking those rights and liberties away entirely from others. The most common psychological error people make when considering political and social issues is in assuming that those issues for which they think about the most or feel the most passionately are necessarily the most pressing, vital, and vastly important issues of the day. Can you really say that you consider illegal immigration, which Arizona has lived well enough with for the duration of its life (and has even been declining somewhat), is such a massively deadly problem that you're willing to have to prove your citizenship every time you do business with a state or every time a cop asks you? What do you say comrade?
What happens when the politicians and media serve up the next social/poltical crisis (terrorists/Muslims/homegrown radicals), what will you then sacrifice to solve it?
Hot dog! Is that why the stock market was up today? These 120 jobs will make great 2nd and 3rd jobs for the single moms out there and the former professionals that are $100,000 underwater in their styrofoam and chicken-wire tract homes. It brings a patriotic tear to my eye...
First off, Parker didn't draft this letter, he just put his name to it. You might want to read it again though I understand with the patriotic flute and marching drum music that's probably blaring in your head it may be difficult to concentrate.
Do you know who's probably complaining least about teenage employment being so low? Teenagers. You think most of these kids want to dig ditches eight hours a day when it's 115 degrees outside? How many teenagers do you know that have years if not decades of construction and farm experience? Do you think that this the PS3 generation is so thoroughly bummed at not having the esteemed position of cleaning up the champagne vomitus from around the commode in the Ladies room at the Black Angus?
Protip: Most Americans don't want the jobs illegals are doing, that's partially why there was a demand for illegal labor in the first place.
Dear readers, friends, the above snippet is a perfect example demonstrating why so many today are absolutely in love with Taking a Stand Against Illegal Immigration™. It's empowering. Choosing a side and solidifying firm convictions, and convincing oneself, that yes, in these times of tumult and economic uncertainty, we have seen the enemy, and he used to make our burritos! People love to take sides and fight valiantly for that side they know to be Good and Right: the side they happen to be on(*cough* pilot's thread *cough*). It's a logical and predictable cathartic displacement and venting of frustration that must be necessarily aimed at another group for the sole purpose of making one feel better about his own convictions and place in the world. And one blows a perceived threat out of proportion in proportion to the amount of psychological comfort he needs to derive from addressing it.
Next caller.
People like this argument because it seems clear cut at a glance and requires a minimum expenditure in brain power.
Maybe it's not what these people don't understand but what they do understand. If very suddenly the 11-13 million illegal immigrants in the country disappeared, what do you think the economics effects would be? Yes, they are here I L L E G A L L Y but they also spend a lot of money on consumer goods and service as well. States love to talk about how much it costs them to educate, medicate, and incarcerate illegal immigrants, $2.2 billion in Arizona alone, and yet, they say nothing about what State revenues are from illegals, granted this because that can't be easily ascertained. People want the illegals to disappear; so be it, just be careful what you wish for.
Most illegals do pay taxes of one form or another. If they've ever shopped at a convenience store or Home Depot they've paid sales tax. Those who, as freedom puts it "pull down paychecks" are paying income tax and therefore state income tax as well as FICA, etc. What's more, a good number of them don't file returns to get refunds because they're afraid to do so, which means that some have paid even more than their share. Why do you think the IRS doesn't check returns against citizenship data? How do I know this? I worked for a stint at a place that had more than 100 of them on the payroll.
And how exactly do we "stop" them, especially the fact that many have and do risk death to get here, and can we really say the complete foolproof method of doing so including physical barricades, enforcement and equipment is going to cost less than simply including them in our society?
Next caller.
Oh it's you again.
Straw man argument. None save for a few nuts on fringe are advocating 100% open and unpatrolled borders. Most reasonable people see the need for border security. As you pointed out earlier, the larger problem is Federal inaction, not to say the President hasn't attempted to push the issue, but Congress seems to have more pressing concerns at the moment. Until that time the several states can pass unconstitutional laws until they're blue in the face but until there's comprehensive national immigration reform they're just spinning their wheels, wasting their time, and making life more difficult for all their residents.
And you're right, we're Americans gosh-dangit, we shouldn't have to be constantly reminded of the vagaries of the third world. Although, I do have to say, I find it funny when people in the richest, most obese and over-entertained country in the history of the world complain about people coming in trying to get a piece of the pie.
Deal with it how? Cutting off education and basic health care to people that are nonetheless participating in the economy? Do you think after what they've gone through to get here and the ties and family they have here they're just going to up and leave because you won't let them go to school or into a hospital? You can make life for them as miserable as possible but so long as it's marginally better than Mexico you shouldn't expect them to go anywhere. It's not like they're unwelcome guests that are going to take the hint and politely take leave.
What do you think is going to happen when you have a few hundred thousand people who are afraid of the police, are afraid to go to hospitals, are denied even basic education, are allowed no opportunities, i.e. no future? Especially with the booming drug trade (a whole other can of worms) and a state filled with firearms? Instead of wasting time on multiple versions of crappy state legislation we should be pressuring Congress to finally take up immigration reform. We should make it so that all residents feel that they can trust the police in working with them (thus making neighborhoods safer and isolating the cartels). We're sending our soldiers and marines half way around the world to get blown up trying to secure freedom and rights and democracy for people that don't even really want it and yet we're unwilling to give those blessings of freedom and education which are already rare in this world to the people washing the dishes at the Pei Wei down the street? How about giving them a buy-in to our society so they feel they have a reason to work with it and protect it.
In conclusion, I support Mr. Parker's endorsement of said letter.
Edit: Don't forget to check the red minus "dislike" button over here --->
ChockJockey
Veteran
- Dec 18, 2008
- 1,393
- 1,350
Herein again is another part of the larger problem. It seems that almost no one is capable of consuming some piece of information, a quote, and article, a letter, concerning this issue without snatching it up, frantically waving it around like a child and putting massive spin and drama on it. When you blow things so far out of context how can you ever expect to be taken seriously? As one of the self-proclaimed foremost economic thinkers on the boards I'm sorry to say...I'm sorry to say I expected a little more from you. :unsure:
HPearlyretiree
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- Nov 6, 2002
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The usual blather from you. Don't have an argument, so you call him a drunk.
Do you know what the AZ bills were in the House and Senate? Ones that would deny US citizenship to anyone born in AZ from foreign parents. That is a state law attempting to change the Constitution. Its a silly waste of time that is not even enforceable. And, it got voted down.
Actual intelligent debate about immigration is needed, not a bunch of bumper sticker statements based on emotion.
But, you just wanted to vent at Parker...you don't like Parker, then don't freaking fly US, its a sick obsession with you, and it got old several years and a few name changes ago. waaaaaah!
SparrowHawk
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- Nov 30, 2009
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HPearlyretiree
Veteran
- Nov 6, 2002
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Figures that you are a Paultard. Will he ever get above 6% in his next campaign?
BTW, Pearce tried to have a friend give a presentation before the AZ Senate today...he was dis-invited. Too many ties to white supremacy groups and neo-nazis.
This is what republicans and democrats are fighting in Arizona....creeps like Pearce.
Pierce's White Power Friend
Good luck on the campaign trail! LOL Will this be the 4th time crazy old Ron has run a doomed race?
Black Magic
Veteran
- Jan 4, 2008
- 937
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ChockJockey I don't care how much they contribute to the economy with their share of paying taxes, ect. Don't forget how far worse of a burden they are with milking the our system healthcare, schools, crimes, and other handouts. And in the end it is null because they have no rights to be here in the first place as they are illegal! Sneaking across the border and setting up a family/work does not entitle you to citizenship no matter how long you have been here! Its rewarding illegal behavior.
There are 100's of thousands of legitimate people from all over the world that are on the waiting list with skills to contribute and become citizens legally. Its unfair to them and is a mockery to the system.
Go to any other country in the world and the local law enforcment has the right to ask you for identification of citizenship. It should be no different here and I have no problem showing proper documentation.
Check out mexico's illegal immigration laws and be blown away at the hypocrisy at the enforcment. They have the right to put you in jail no questions asked if there is an issue.
The federal system has failed arizona. The whole thing is a pawn as the democrats want to give these illegals amnesty to have more votes to help sway the power. Its all corrupt.
There are 100's of thousands of legitimate people from all over the world that are on the waiting list with skills to contribute and become citizens legally. Its unfair to them and is a mockery to the system.
Go to any other country in the world and the local law enforcment has the right to ask you for identification of citizenship. It should be no different here and I have no problem showing proper documentation.
Check out mexico's illegal immigration laws and be blown away at the hypocrisy at the enforcment. They have the right to put you in jail no questions asked if there is an issue.
The federal system has failed arizona. The whole thing is a pawn as the democrats want to give these illegals amnesty to have more votes to help sway the power. Its all corrupt.
OP
freedom
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- Feb 15, 2006
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- Thread Starter
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- #26
1. Your point about the intent of the letter ….
I can read just fine .. Let me paraphrase the letter for you were not PRO illegal , just dont do anything OK ?
YEAH ok chamber of commerce and CEO signatories well just let the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT solve this problem ..oh thats right , their INACTION lead to the problem were faced with today in the first place …. Do you know what the government response to illegal immigration was BEFORE Arizona rose up ? Almost NILL …
2. Your second point about a horde of Mexicans streaming across the border …
Well yes they are , if you consider that 70 % of illegal immigrants in this country are Mexican nationals and that there are 11 million illegal immigrants within our borders … thats almost one tenth of the entire Mexican population , and 11 million is a LOW estimate …
3. History lesson on migration and workers …
Wow , I had NO idea that we had always had migrant workers , my goodness what a surprise that is ! Funny how they NEVER GO HOME anymore ..see thats the IDEA behind migrant workers , when theres work they come , when theres no work they GO HOME …
4. Your rant on how people are using illegal immigrants as scape goats for our bad economy ..
Gee Im surprised you think my intelligence is THAT low … they didnt CAUSE the economic crisis , lets get that straight so were all on the same page … but they DO contribute to budget short falls , and they ARE holding down jobs that Americans would like to be working ..
5 … your highly observant point that my comment on federal inaction was a HUGE exaggeration ..
Ok , so I neglected to mention the terrific job ICE does day in and day out … sure under president obama more illegal immigrants are being deported than at any time in our nations history .. But they arent really TRYING .. Half a million a year is weak … I could do better in six months .. Guess what the president and the democratic party want to do in order to solve this problem ? Comprehensive immigration reform , AKA amnesty , pay a fine learn some English and POOF youre a legal citizen jumping the whole line that several MILLION people all over the globe have been waiting in to come here legally ..not to mention the fact that if we grant ANOTHER amnesty more people will come because this is the SECOND time weve done it ( 1983 granted amnesty to 3 million illegal immigrants ) …
6 .. Your fears about SB 1070 , the constitution and individual freedom …
I love it when people go all CONSTUTION , LIBERTY , FREEDOM on me …. Yeah Ill tell you what , you go on and spew that non sense , meanwhile why dont you tell that to the victims of sexual abuse perpetrated by illegal immigrants
5 sex offenders caught by border patrol
Oh I know , why dont you argue how important individual liberty is to this mans family , he was recently killed by an illegal immigrant
http://wusa9.com/news/article/141837/373/Drunk-Driving-Suspect-In-Crash-Illegal-Immigrant
Im sure that this young girl who was raped will absolutely enjoy your speech about freedom
http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-alien-accused-of-raping-idaho-teenager-peru-it-s-more-free#ixzz1Go50aG00
I could keep going on and on and on , anyone remember that NUN in virgina who was killed by that one illegal immigrant who had been caught and released twice before and had an order of deportation ?
You know , if all I have to do is quickly pull out my drivers license in order to prove my identity , something I end up having to do every day anyways and it will STOP THE MADNESS , then hey , Im all for it and you can go on and scream SOVEIT RUSSIA till the cows come home ..
7 …. You making light of 120 new jobs being created ….
Your right , its ONLY 120 jobs , and their POOR PEOPLE JOBS , who would want them anyways right ? Not like there are any poor people in this country , because all of us are rich and no one works for less than 50 thousand dollars a year anyways , thank you for brining me to my senses … how silly of me to be concerned with lower class people , we should deport them too while were at it eh ?
8. Doug parker didnt write the letter he only signed it ….
OH ok then ! His name must have just slipped on to the paper by accident , you are hence forth resolved from all responsibility then Doug ! We live in a world without consequences anyways right ?
9. Here you make a point about how AMERICAN children are too LAZY to get jobs and work …. You also imply that CONSTRUCTION is a lowly job like picking fruit out of the fields ..
Let me tear that up real fast , so your telling me that in my state of Arizona , there isnt ONE teenager whos looking for a job then ? Because you know if even ONE of them is , your argument is disgusting , you dont think there are families out there that are struggling and need everyone working ? Or that some kid doesnt want to get a car or go to college ? Sorry dude , but not everyones parents can afford to pay for college ..
Also I dont really care that you consider construction to be the same as laboring in the field , but I know some people who WOULD care , laid off construction workers .. Blue collar workers just like you and me … they USED to have decent paying jobs until they had to start competing with people willing to work for less , and they can ALWAYS work for less when their willing to live 20 to a bedroom and not pay taxes ..you know chock jockey , were lucky because illegal immigrants cant get jobs on the ramp , but if they could , I bet youd be signing a different tune right fast …
10 ….for point number ten you insinuate that picking on illegal immigrants gives people like myself purpose and makes me feel better about myself ..
Wow , I REALLY wish that were true .. Do you know what its like to watch reason pass you by time and time again ? To look at the world and say but thats not right , why arent we doing what were suppose to ?
I find the illegal immigration fight to be draining .. Time and time again when people like myself rise up to make rational points about the societal costs of illegal immigration ,health care , education , jobs , etc , we are smacked down over and over again , or worse yet derided as racists . I know how things work , politicians want to stay in office and become more powerful , business men want to keep their costs low so they can make more money for themselves .. Some days it makes me wonder , why bother fighting at all … but at the end of the day I always remember that Im obligated to fight for a country that educated me and kept me safe … its my responsibility to ensure that the next generation of Americans gets a decent shot at life …and thats why I fight…
11 … ah the old straw man argument that we dont know how much they contribute so we shouldnt wish to get rid of them ..
Yeah , Im sure they contribute A LOT …. To their HOME COUNTRIES …. Come on now , be sensible , they live multiple people to a room , they go 8 in a car , they spend the absolute least amount of money in our country that they can … remember that last economic boycott ? Because I dont … they have almost no major economic power …
If you want , we can play the MATH game …. Lets say the average cost of giving birth is about 8 thousand dollars …. Go ahead and factor in food stamps for the next 18 years , along with medical treatment for the kid … then figure at least 4 for your average illegal immigrant family .. Oh but now because the child was born here their an American , and it would be so mean off us to object to these costs !!
Heres a new york times article about some chick whos 8 months pregnant and trying DESPERATELY to get into to the country to give birth ..
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/us/politics/05babies.html
Whats really sad is that this goes on ALL the time , day in day out , women trying to cross over in order to give birth in our country … what we have is MASSIVE abuse of our laws and charity …how is this behavior right ? Please , justify it for me …
12 … nice diversion , bravo ! You called my argument a straw man tacit with YOUR straw man argument ..
You refuse to admit that theres a carrying capacity for this country .. Then you go on to pass the buck by saying the federal government will have to solve this and not the states …. I think you infer we need to just be patient and give it sometime … LOL !!!!! Yeah like that will work LOL !!!!
I have news for you , there wont be compressive national immigration reform , there will just be ENFORCMENT ..
13 …. Your finish is well written ….
… I dont think you care about Americans … people like me , like the other posters on this board arent special to you … were not family so to speak … were just people who live in a defined area governed by certain laws …being an American doesnt mean anything to you does it ? Politics is a fun game for you …At the end of the day , I dont think you really care if the lives of Americans are made easier or harder by the burden of illegal immigration ..
What about the Americans in Arizona who are dying right now because they need medical treatment that they cant afford ( due to ACHCSS being shut off because of you guessed it , over abuse by illegal immgrants ) ..
What about the American teenagers who DO want to work ? WHY CANT they get jobs at PEI WAY ? Why cant they become construction workers ? WHERE ARE THEY SUPPOSE TO WORK ?
What about the americans who get killed or suffer harm each year from people who shouldnt even be here ?
You dont get the entire point of problem …. Its not that we dont like the illegal immigrants or that we HATE illegal immigrants … its that right now , WE HAVE FAMILY TO TAKE CARE OF , and family comes FIRST …
Dont call me Shirley
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- Aug 20, 2002
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OP
freedom
Veteran
- Feb 15, 2006
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- #28
250 jantioral jobs open up after ICE raid
yes we WILL take those jobs , thank you very much sir can i have some more manfacturing jobs , 600 of them
go on and google the raid ...
there go 200 at a bakery ! ah more jobs!
Why pay unemployed veterans to do constuction when you can get illegal immgrants cheaper!
maybe YOU can be our ambasador to the illegal immgrants and ask them nicely ONLY to work in the fields , that way there are still jobs open for unemployed american citizens ..
tell me shirely , have you ever seen a man who's done roofing all his life l( 20 years ) look at you with hollow hopless eyes as he recants his story of how his bussiness used to be great in califorina making plenty of money , and now he can't even find work because all the illegals have taken it ? but hey , who cares right ? as long as it's not happening to us it doesn't matter and we can afford to toss our fellow americans to the wolves ...
ChockJockey
Veteran
- Dec 18, 2008
- 1,393
- 1,350
Citizenship? When did I say anything about citizenship?
I agree, they've broke the law, it's a shame, just awful, but now that's settled we have to deal with the reality that there's 12 million of them here and we have to come up with some sort of a solution, whether that's authorizing 150,000,000 search warrants for every residence in the country to find them and weed them out or giving them amnesty so we can all frolic together in the fields.
Skilled people from Europe and the South of Asia on the list to enter the U.S...so they can pick tomatoes?
And I say you have failed Arizona by not capitalizing it, it is a proper noun.
So when George W. Bush tried to implement a guest worker program during his administration it was actually a Democratic plot? What Obama is promoting doesn't differ much from what his predecessor was. This isn't something that's magically immune to bipartisan effort, there's actual common ground. The hard part is getting Congress to take up the issue which they won't until they're finished fighting about the budget.
leprechaun
Senior
Dougie's dream, the entire airline staffed by illegals, sub minimum, no benefits.
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