Southwest, Aa Not Worried About A New Us Airways

[UseYourHead]

76,

With exception of the last 3-4 years, a US Airways narrowbody captain made more than a widebody captain at UAL.

You did not get the contract and pay until you used the merger with US Airways as a bargining chip along with the slowdown of service.

320's comments are correct about the advantage of pay working at U vs.UAL; however, had we all been hired at UAL in 85 (I did not accept a job either), we surely would have zoomed up the list as you described...not a bad trade-off I would say.

Best of luck to you (and all of us), I really mean it!

Your dream of doing better at US than UA is a farce. First of all you couldn’t possibly know what your total earnings and compensation would have been at UA, so your $500,000 number is arbitrary and fictional. I know several 570’s who have been flying 767’s and 777’s internationally for many years before any concessions, at a far higher level of total compensation than you ever saw at US, even considering the loss of ESOP stock, and they beg to differ with your assertion.

[post="273705"][/post]​

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Could you please post or provide a link to those "financial community" reports?  Or at least name the people and/or organizations issuing them?  Otherwise, this appears to be yet another case of offering your unsubstantiated opinion as fact.

[post="273674"][/post]​

Cosmo: We have all come to know that the referenced poster wouldn't know anything about the financial community if it jumped out and slapped him on the face, and add to that the well renowned Zero Credibility facter ... you get Mr. E. D. Ought.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cosmo, PineyBob, & 767jetz:

Cosmo asked: “Could you please post or provide a link to those "financial community" reports? Or at least name the people and/or organizations issuing them? Otherwise, this appears to be yet another case of offering your unsubstantiated opinion as fact.â€

USA320Pilot comments: The information was obtained from people on Wall Street and it’s conversational. The creditor’s will likely not voice their intention until after the labor issues are resolved one way or another, which is exactly what happened at US Airways. Separately I had a FAA inspector on our jumpseat today who just had crossed the Pacific on United. He said that that his office was concerned about a United strike could occur next week.

PineyBob said: ‘Oh and BTW why is it OK for you to resort to insulting Clue USA320 when you preach civility? why the hypocrisy?â€

USA320Pilot comments: You’re right and I was wrong to purposely mispronounce ClueBy Four’s user name. The intent was to illustrate my opinion of his comments, but my approach was wrong and hypocritical. Clue, I apologize for purposely mispronouncing your name.

767jetz said: “Your dream of doing better at US than UA is a farce. First of all you couldn’t possibly know what your total earnings and compensation would have been at UA, so your $500,000 number is arbitrary and fictional. I know several 570’s who have been flying 767’s and 777’s internationally for many years before any concessions, at a far higher level of total compensation than you ever saw at US, even considering the loss of ESOP stock, and they beg to differ with your assertion.â€

USA320Pilot comments: I really do not understand why you come over to the US Airways board as a United employee only to dispute what I write. It’s sort of interesting and somewhat a compliment that you follow my posts around the Internet.

However, I take exception to your insults and misinformation. In regard to my career, let’s discuss the facts:

 At US Airways I was fortunate enough to be “A†scale and at United I would have been “B†scale.

 At US Airways I upgraded to Captain in four years at United I would have upgraded in eight years.

 At US Airways we took a pay cut in the early 90s and were paid back twice the amount of our concession plus stock options, which realized a capital gain. At United I would have taken a deep pay cut of about 25% for the ESOP, where the shares were cancelled and are worthless.

 US Airways had the highest pay and best working conditions in the industry, which provided me more time off and more time to work in the military.

By obtaining higher pay earlier I was able to take advantage of the “Bull Market†and rise in home prices, which I would have been unable to participate in if I was at United.

767jetz, I do not understand why you participate on the US Airways message board as a United employee. Then again, maybe I do considering what is happening at WHQ.

Nonetheless, you’re a bright man and congratulations on your B747 opportunity, but when it comes to finances I suggest you study the industry a little more. You have access to ALPA E&FA just like I do, therefore, it might me good for you to look at ALPA’s archives and do a pay and benefit comparison to check my math.

I have been very fortunate to be hired at US Airways over 20 years ago and I have reaped the benefits of this opportunity. However, to suggest I would be financially better off by being at United is nonsense.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[TheLarkAscending]

767Jetz Blah, Blah, Blah...

My educated guess would be that he visits to dispell the constant misinformation that you've continued to spew about his employer, the most recent being an op-ed piece you'd claimed to be the financial opinion of the Wall Street Journal. You have a great deal of nerve questioning his being here when you've intentionally baited United employees for years.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Lark:

Let’s be honest here.

The United employees cannot stand that their company was a takeover target of US Airways backed by RSA funding, which I broke on this website with my acronym of the UCT/ICT. Furthermore, they do not want to hear anything negative about their company and they come to the US Airways board to see what I write, probably to become more informed about their company.

Do I like United employee sentiment. No and here’s why.

In 1995 when United and US Airways were holding public merger talks due to the ESOP, Gerry Greenwald had every US Airways union leader fly to Chicago to give the United union’s merger terms. These terms included parking US Airways’ F28s, DC9s, and MD-80s. In addition, there would be thousands of furloughs, only on the US Airways side that included 1,000 pilots, there would be a pre-nuptial seniority list providing United employees with super seniority, and the United employees would have a no furlough clause. What happened? The US Airways labor leaders “shunned†United’s employment offer and the deal died.

Then two months later at the ALPA National BOD meeting the United MEC convinced the Delta MEC to use their collective “roll call†vote to change ALPA Merger Policy from DOH to the new protocol.

During the 2000 merger attempt UAL MEC chairman Rick Dubinsky tried to have a prenuptial agreement a condition of United’s bid to acquire US Airways. Dubinsky wrote about this effort in a letter to the United pilots in June of 2000. The MEC chairman tried again to bypass ALPA Merger Policy again and had Jim Goodwin present the pre-nuptial agreement to Stephen Wolf, but the US Airways CEO rejected the plan.

I have two points here: I do not respect people who think they’re better than others and deserve super seniority. In a corporate transaction each company and each employee is an asset that is designed to have a synergistic gain, which would otherwise be unavailable. Thus, if the whole is greater than the parts why should one employee group have super seniority with a pre-nuptial agreement? Are the United employees better people or employees that those at US Airways?

With that said, the pre-nuptial issue had nothing to do with my posts regarding the UCT, ICT, domestic alliance, Northwest discussions, or bankruptcy cases. I simply reported the news before it was made public because I believed readers would be interested in the news.

Meanwhile, United has serious problems and as I have said before I did not want our two companies to merge. I am very happy US Airways’ “executive suite†shunned United’s recent attempt to have US Airways’ new financial partners fund a merger between the Arlington- and Chicago-based company. I believe the new US Airways will be much better off than if US Airways and United had attempted another corporate transaction.

Finally, there would not be sparring between 767jetz, Busdrvr, Bear96, Fly, Cosmo, and Ohcaptainron and myself if the United employees would not visit the US Airways message board. The only reason there is this discussion is that the United employees post on the US Airways message board because I do not visit their board.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Lark:

Let’s be honest here.

Finally, there would not be sparring between 767jetz, Busdrvr, Bear96, Fly, Cosmo, and Ohcaptainron and myself if the United employees would not visit the US Airways message board. The only reason there is this discussion is that the United employees post on the US Airways message board because I do not visit their board.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I've never been anything but honest. Here is my latest dose:

Sparring would not occur if people didn't challenge your opinions, period. It doesn't matter whether they work for A or B company. You do not honor, appreciate nor respect the opinions of others if they differ from your own.

 

[BoeingBoy]

USA320Pilot,

It could possibly be that if you didn't apparently take such pleasure from putting a little dig at UA in your posts, those pesky UA folks wouldn't feel that it was necessary to defend their airline on this forum so much.

To be sure, I counted, and you've taken a little dig at UA 16 times this month alone - an average of over once every other day. And no, that doesn't count replies to those pesky UA folks or articles that mentioned UA.

Quite possibly if you knocked it off they would.....

Jim

 

[KCFlyer]

Cosmo, PineyBob, & 767jetz:

Cosmo asked: “Could you please post or provide a link to those "financial community" reports? Or at least name the people and/or organizations issuing them? Otherwise, this appears to be yet another case of offering your unsubstantiated opinion as fact.â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: The information was obtained from people on Wall Street and it’s conversational.

[post="273764"][/post]​

So, in other words - street gossip is fact just as long as the "source" is on Wall Street and wearing an Armani Suit and Alan Edmonds shoes?

 

[Oliver Twist]

I don't think GE has any ATMs.

[post="273532"][/post]​

Ohhhh -- That was a good one. Actually gave me a chuckle.

 

[madders]

I am fascinated with this WN vs US competition and who will win
Yeh WN is ahead and beating U a$$ now but after this merger is completed.
in my naive understanding all U have to do is equal WN domestic performance and U international operations and cargo will keep them in the game.

Like I have notice WN profits seems to be decreasing and U losses seems to be decreasing also ..


And by the way I do not think US have dissed old UAL ...I think they all know that Us/HP is the best combination..

Here is a thought :
I bet all these airline CEOs play golf on sunday and meet in a clubhouse somewhere..once in awhile...why do we bicker against each other like this??

 

[wnbubbleboy]

Here is a thought :
I bet all these airline CEOs play golf on sunday and meet in a clubhouse somewhere..once in awhile...why do we bicker against each other like this??

[post="273813"][/post]​

Maybe Kelly and Neeleman are talking codeshare alliance at the clubhouse to level the playing ground.

 

[767jetz]

USA320Pilot,

It could possibly be that if you didn't apparently take such pleasure from putting a little dig at UA in your posts, those pesky UA folks wouldn't feel that it was necessary to defend their airline on this forum so much.

Quite possibly if you knocked it off they would.....

Jim

[post="273786"][/post]​

Thanks Jim. You are exactly right.

Unfortunately he will continue to think he is an expert on matters pertaining to UA, even though nothing he ever predicts about the Elk Grove Village based airline EVER comes true.

PS, good luck to you and the many other good folks at USAirways.

 

[Busdrvr]

However, I take exception to your insults and misinformation. In regard to my career, let’s discuss the facts:

 At US Airways I was fortunate enough to be “Aâ€￾ scale and at United I would have been “Bâ€￾ scale.

 At US Airways I upgraded to Captain in four years at United I would have upgraded in eight years.

 At US Airways we took a pay cut in the early 90s and were paid back twice the amount of our concession plus stock options, which realized a capital gain. At United I would have taken a deep pay cut of about 25% for the ESOP, where the shares were cancelled and are worthless.

 US Airways had the highest pay and best working conditions in the industry, which provided me more time off and more time to work in the military.

By obtaining higher pay earlier I was able to take advantage of the “Bull Marketâ€￾ and rise in home prices, which I would have been unable to participate in if I was at United.

I have been very fortunate to be hired at US Airways over 20 years ago and I have reaped the benefits of this opportunity. However, to suggest I would be financially better off by being at United is nonsense.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="273764"][/post]​

While i could give a rats about you or "portfolio", you've made quite a few statements that I find rather amusing, and you "numbers" just don't add up (surprise).

I'm referencing ALPA's Sept 2000 Synopsis of payrates workrules and benefits.
According to this document:

-Payrates: UAL PRE-C2k A320 pay was roughly $8 an hour higher than U's A320 payrates
-Lineholder min guarantee: UAL 75, U 71 (61 for those choosing 75 hour cap)
-Reserve guarantee: UAL 75, U 72
-you seem to ignore the fact that while you got to be the mighty commander of your 130 seat jet quicker, you didn't get to make close to those rates as an F/O on the whale, or DC-10 which, prior to C2K ranged from approx $10-$30 less than U A320 Capt rates. so you could have spent that "4 extra years as an F/O" pulling down around 15K less a year to get 19-23 days off (to work for the military) and have layovers in Hong Kong, and London (although I'll bet you'd perfer Thailand) instead of Syracuse. Yippee for you.
-You've been citing that '$500,000' figure for some time now. I'd say it's just a little "dated" considering a 570 has been able to hold 767 Capt for 8-10 years (approx $30 more an hour than an U A320 Capt PRIOR to C2K), and 777/747-400 Capt for 4-5 years (currently $53 more an hour than a U A320 Capt). Realistically, that number should have been dropping by approx 50K a year since you first cited it, and since you're an immature 49, well, let's see, even by YOUR math.....
-workrules prior to C2K: 12 days off per month min at UAL, 11 at U. Duty and trip rigs look the same.
-as to the ESOP shares getting canned, I guess that's the same as you A fund getting canned, and I do seem to remember you being one of the leading voices that the UAL deal was a "done deal". Let's see, the stock was around 40 while UAL was offering 60... how much did you lose on that "sure thing"?

But since you made the point that although UAL offered better top pay because of the big iron, you were wuch wiser to go the route of U because of the "fast upgrade" to Capt, then wouldn't you agree that considering that rational chopice on your part to trade away big iron flying, it would have been perfectly appropriate to fence you from it permenately had a deal with UAL ever happened?

I REALLY hope the merger goes well, I cringe at the thought of the like of you ever again putting on a UAL uniform. Enjoy Scranton...

 

[a320av8r]

Don't forget the Air Canada part.
"Air Canada will participate in code sharing (with US/AW) to the maximum extent allowed by current bilateral agreements".
May we see some USA/ACA "focus city" in midwest Canada?
What about Air Wisconsin focusing a feed in mid-west too?

BTW a PSA pilot said that the CRJ-200's are going to Air Wisky but hasn't heard about to -700's yet. Don't know if it's true but it's a rumor.

 

[Cfm56]

Much talk of SW's "eroding hedges". You guys are missing the boat. An airline could lose a lot of money hedging fuel if fuel decreases significantly in price. The fuel hedging then becomes a liability. SW management feels that fuel prices may gradually come down in coming years thus the slow decrease (or "erosion") in the hedges. Ideally it'd be in proportion to the decreasing fuel prices....which would be another perfect call by SWA managment. In the event fuel prices don't go down, they will still be competitive....but they think fuel prices will slowly come down in the future.