Us Airways / Behind The Scenes: Machinists

[cavalier]

I find it interesting that the CWA and the company are going back to the bargaining table this week.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

I find your behavior disturbing knowing who your audience on these boards is.

 

[PITbull]

So far managment has not laid out their own concession #3 contribution!


That will have to be presented BEFORE any ratification vote....

Also, Labor's returns needs spelled out in major detail, in exchange for our third investment in SAVING this airline and mangment's butts.


or the entire T/A will be killed!

 

[tadjr]

WestCoastGuy:

You could be right in that for your work group the cuts could be deeper than $13.10 in bankruptcy court.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

P.S. By the way -- I believe the $13.10 per hour wage rate was an "opener". Nonetheless, I find it interesting that the CWA and the company are going back to the bargaining table this week.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Why would you find that interesting? The CWA has ALWAYS said they were willing to sit down with management and talk. Nothing new or exciting or sinister here, no matter how much spin you want to put on it.
The sad thing is that MANY people I have talked to WOULD have been willing to make more cuts to keep it going, but after the fiasco of "negotiations" from the management team this time around, and the lack of movement on managements part, and the extremely watered down version of the buyout and lumping it in with the rest of the contract "offer", many arent even willing to listen any more. If this is the companys "opening" offer and they're trying to use it to scare people, it isnt working. All it is doing is p*ssing off those who WERE willing to listen. The longer the company wants to play with this cr*p proposal, the more people are going to become hard line against ANY more cuts. If the company truly has a "better" plan, they better show it soon, cause this one isnt going to fly. :down: :down: :down:

 

[WestCoastGuy]

Very well said, TADJR...I think most of us have the exact same view and feelings.

 

[PRATT4056]

I too hold firm that we should NOT open our contract for a number of reasons:

1) Blatant violation of our contract which is a testament to the "good faith" the company exhibits to its maintenance employees. Why should we talk to these LIARS????

2) Failure of the company to reduce the non-labor costs (besides fuel). BTW, What exactly are the non-labor costs comprised of?????

3) Failure of management to disclose what exactly will be their portion of sharing the pain?????

4) Continued threats from CCY.....if we don't make a deal then...blah, blah, blah. I say let the judge decide and govern our management. Then there will be no more monkey business......just business.

-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------How about doing us in this airline industry a favor and stop taking paycuts you are leading this industry to welfare wages. Everytime you give them more of your paycheck the rest of the airlines follow with this race to the bottom. If you are going to loose your medical, dental and only make 10 bucks per hour its time to shut them down nobody could live off that. And I dont want to hear that IAM slogan at least we have a job. And they mention america west for your wages. Well I have seen their planes and they are falling apart literally. Thats what low wages Produce JUNK.

 

[700UW]

And I dont want to hear that IAM slogan at least we have a job. And they mention america west for your wages. Well I have seen their planes and they are falling apart literally. Thats what low wages Produce JUNK.

Excuse me the IAM is the only union not discussing concessions.

And I believe ALPA has led the way.

And if it was not for the paycut, US would not be in business right now.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cav:

US Airways is preparing for a bankruptcy filing and has indicated to the SEC there may be another “judicial restructuringâ€. The company has talked about this with the ATSB, the major creditors, and has the liquidity to not require DIP financing. If the company enters bankruptcy do you believe your work group will be better or worse off if you have to provide argument on why your work group deserves pay and benefits higher than America West for a failed company?

Pitbull:

I agree that there needs to be meaningful returns including profit sharing, stock options, and other incentives. In addition, I believe management should share the cost cut burden too.

Tadjr:

What’s interesting is watching the restructuring play out. For example, if the IAM “concession stand is truly closed†than why is there a need for the IAM general VP to meet with the AGC’s? What is there to talk about? According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette the IAM “intends to discuss the US Airways situation†the Board of Arbitration Opinion & Award on the outsourcing of A320 maintenance work “could bring the IAM to the bargaining table depending on the outcome.â€

These are the type of developments that are interesting watch after you witness the rhetoric by a few people on this forum, especially with AMFA watching over the IAM’s shoulder.

Nonetheless, cuts are likely to come one way or another. Either they will be with mutually agreed upon contracts, court ordered agreements, or through liquidation.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[PITbull]

USA320,

It is unfair and not factual for you to say that U is preparing for another BK. Infact, Lakefield has said they are not interested and are not actively looking in "asset selling". Tell us this, how does a company justify BK, when the quarter 2 they report a $34 million profit????

Is Bankruptcy filing ONLY to abrogate agreeements like Lorenzo did? That is now against the law.

IF MANAGMENT IS PLANING TO GO INTO BANKRUPTCY, THAN THEY WILL LOSE CONTROL OF THE OPERATION AND BUSINESS.

ALSO, IF MANAGMENT PULLS A 1113 FILING AND ATTEMPTS TO ABROGATE, AFTER WE NEGOTIATE IN BANKRUPTCY AGAIN, THERE WILL BE NO EMPLOYEE SPIRIT LEFT AND THE EMPLOYEES WILL NOT PRODUCE IN ORDER TO TURN THE CO. AROUND FOR ANY KIND OF PROFITABILITY OR SURVIVALBILITY!

Creditors lose; ATSB loses; RSA loses; GE Capital loses; Bank of America loses; managment loses; employees lose!

So, what is the point of Bankruptcy again??? So, that everyone loses?


.

With your scenerio, negotiations is a moot exercise.

 

[WestCoastGuy]

Either they will be with mutually agreed upon contracts, court ordered agreements, or through liquidation.

I DO agree with your assesment about the pay cuts. I doubt very seriously if the company is interested in "Mutually Agreed Upon". Obviously the work groups will not agree to their demands to "Sign the Paper." That leaves the other two alternatives....as one American Hero said...."Lets Roll". And we'll see who blinks first.

 

[700UW]

Tadjr:

What’s interesting is watching the restructuring play out. For example, if the IAM “concession stand is truly closed†than why is there a need for the IAM general VP to meet with the AGC’s? What is there to talk about? According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette the IAM “intends to discuss the US Airways situation†the Board of Arbitration Opinion & Award on the outsourcing of A320 maintenance work “could bring the IAM to the bargaining table depending on the outcome.â€

These are the type of developments that are interesting watch after you witness the rhetoric by a few people on this forum, especially with AMFA watching over the IAM’s shoulder.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot

Once again you post something on which you have no idea, about, I informed you on a previous post and you still post false information verbatim once again.

Why do you insist on making things up when you are not an IAM member and do not know anything about how it works, why do you make things up that are not true?

READ IT AGAIN:

Once again your lack of how the IAM operates shines like the sun.

GVP Robert Roach and the five US Airways General Chairmen meet regularly about once a month or via conference call.

So don't try to imply or take anything out of it. It is a normal course of duties and they are meeting prior to a whole District 142 Staff and Executive Board meeting that will take place this upcoming week.

And the Aribtor Bloch is not expected to render his decision no earlier then end of August as the post-hearing brief's rebuttals were not due till yesterday. So it is not immediatley before any decision is issued.

So keep trying.

Can you understand it now?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Pitbull:

Just like last time US Airways executed a dual track approach to its restructuring. The company tried to restructure outside of the court’s protection and when it became apparent they could not, they filed their petition with the bankruptcy court.

The same thing holds true today. You cannot enter bankruptcy without pre-planning, especially in the airline industry, and expect to exit Chapter 11.

I agree the company is not actively looking at selling assets and did I say they did. If the airline is forced to sell assets to avoid a loan guarantee default, then you may see some non-core assets divested, but where in this thread did I say they were gong to sell assets?

In regard to your comment regarding Frank Lorenzo, where did I say that? If the company files and if any union does not have a new TA, then I believe they will file a S.1113/S.1114 motion too. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly you said on this forum that your union was preparing itself for bankruptcy, immediately after the MEC met with Bruce Lakefield last month.

I agree that nobody wants to see the airline end up in Chapter 11 again, but if all stakeholders do not participate in the new business plan, then I believe that is exactly what will happen.

Let’s remember two things here: each union has its own choice of whether or not they want to avoid a S.1113 hearing and that this is “just a jobâ€￾. There is life after US Airways, whether the company survives or not.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[tadjr]

BIG
NOT as Big
littler
small

I thought I was looking at an eye chart there, Pitbull! Freaked me out!

 

[javaboy]

question.... is the prevailing concern about only the per hour rate? (13.10 surely is not the mechanics wage rate are we referring to the non technical employees?)

in that regard are these people or other IAM's concerned about thier pensions? as well in BK everything is on the table not just wage rates,

i suspect that would include medical benefits (both the amount and who is entitled (read here retired folks).

again for head count reduction the money spent on the lawyers could be spent on employee buyouts? agreed there isnt as much cash going around (apparently enough for a 14month employee to get 5.0 million) thus gotta believe other people some who would leave for pass prviledges others might go if they got reduced cost medical benefits ect... might be an easy sell than the tough guy act in courts.


officially have any headcount reductions been announced (note here pilot bid award just closed) in conjuction with the flight schedule reduction at PIT this fall?

just looking for frontline information (not rumors)

thanks

 

[tadjr]

Tadjr:

What’s interesting is watching the restructuring play out.

I agree its interesting alright.

I am not IAM so I dont really care how/what they do to their contract. It isnt my concern and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it so I let them handle it their own way. Much like the rest of the posters here wish others would do.

I have stated my feelings and concerns over the contract I do have a say in- CWA. Good luck to the rest and may you do whats best for you.

 

[Res]

I couldn't agree more, some of us would've worked towards a small giveback of some sort but now after insulting the entire CWA work group, and seeing what has taken place at the Ato's...I agree and as do most of my co-workers...we'll take our chances with the judge..or unemployment...mentally we are drained....and couldn't feel more unappreciated for our daily effforts to try and explain why 1 ticket agent has 200 pax in lines, why PSA flts have been cancelled and ur rescheduled for the fourth time, why it took 25 minutes (this is on a good day) to speak with someone, that we'll still be flying in Dec and why to give us ur money....and the list goes on I really don't think management has a clue.