US/AA merger settlement imminent!

[IORFA]

If you stop engaging the troll he will go away! If you block him and his posts, I promise your enjoyment of this board will increase 10 fold.

 

[Bob Owens]

It also doesn't change that the DOJ's statements that LFCs are needed to provide a competitive balance is factually inaccurate and also legally indefensible in the US airline market which is deregulated and in which the government cannot pick winners and losers in the market based on price.


 

Really? Didn't they allow AA and TWA to merge, didn't they allow DL and NWA to merge? Didn't they allow UA and CO to merge? Didn't each of those mergers create a new winner as far as being the biggest carrier? You have been saying all along how DL is in such a great position that they are going to beat everyone else out there, why all this concern over who AA divests its assets to? If anything shouldn't any objections come from the shareholders for not maximizing the return on those assets?  
 
 

AA/US doesn't have the right to carve up the industry as it sees fit, which is clearly the intent it wants and what was echoed by the well-recorded statements saying that legacy carriers were not likely to win a bid regarding any assets.
 

Who said they are? But wouldn't you agree that they have the right to do with their assets what they wish? And if they are divesting and its in their interests to divest those assets that they do so where those assets wont be used against their interests as effectively as the would be with what you yourself have attested is a much stronger competitor?

 

[robbedagain]

Bob...as long as its delta its ok for them to conquer the usa but to hell w all the other airlines. I put a question to wt on anthr thread n im still waiting but me thinks he just a lit bit upset that delta is nbr 3 or 2 and that no one took him up on his bet....

 

[swamt]

If you stop engaging the troll he will go away! If you block him and his posts, I promise your enjoyment of this board will increase 10 fold.

Excellent point indeed...

 

[LD3]

An official at the DOJ sees DL's chances at getting any slots as slim.... http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/11/17/airline-merger-settled-let-the-fighting-begin.aspx

Time will tell, but small town USA can thank the DOJ for any future lost service...

 

[robbedagain]

Ld thanks for that link very good n interesting read. Nowhere did it say dl will challenge it or file suit but they are less likely to win dca n lga slots but a battle is going go brew btwn b6 n wn time will tell

 

[WorldTraveler]

We all knw the us aviation has been de regulated since 78.. my question to u wt is this.. lets say if this whole merger is reversed n dl n nw were mergin now n lets say nw was the biggie at dca would u be cheering n gung ho happy for it or be against it the way u are now? Again just wanting to knw how u would react if say the merger was reversed?

It is a matter of principle so yes if it is wrong, it is wrong regardless of who is involved.
The reason why there was virtually no overlap and no divestitures in the DL/NW merger was because DL moved first, got the best choice, and had the least competitive problems.

There are many of us who have said for years that an AA/US merger would produce antitrust problems and wouldn’t solve near as many of the strategic problems for AA as other mergers and their subsequent followup initiatives have done.

So, yes, I would be against it if it were wrong which is why I am speaking out against the slot divestiture procedures at DCA even though DL never intended to compete for slots to large cities and I never said they would.
The principle is that the government should not be picking winners and losers in the industry which is what they are doing.

Even though DL will likely remain number 2 at DCA even after the divestitures and ramp up of operations by WN and B6, there will be small cities that will lose service and there will be other carriers – UA, VX, F9 and others – who will be much more negatively impacted than DL.

If you stop engaging the troll he will go away! If you block him and his posts, I promise your enjoyment of this board will increase 10 fold.

How about instead you just figure out how to intelligently engage in the discussion and set the putdowns aside?

Other participants of this forum – and even AA employees – have repeatedly said the same thing so apparently it isn’t a hill that some of them find too hard to climb.

Really? Didn't they allow AA and TWA to merge, didn't they allow DL and NWA to merge? Didn't they allow UA and CO to merge? Didn't each of those mergers create a new winner as far as being the biggest carrier? You have been saying all along how DL is in such a great position that they are going to beat everyone else out there, why all this concern over who AA divests its assets to? If anything shouldn't any objections come from the shareholders for not maximizing the return on those assets?

Who said they are? But wouldn't you agree that they have the right to do with their assets what they wish? And if they are divesting and its in their interests to divest those assets that they do so where those assets wont be used against their interests as effectively as the would be with what you yourself have attested is a much stronger competitor?

Size is not the issue, Bob. The issue is for the government picking winners and losers and deciding what cities should gain service and which should not. That is against what deregulation did.
The role that DL said it wanted to play in the slot divestiture process is to ensure that small cities retain service to DCA. The DOJ has indicated that they don’t care if some cities lose service – AA/US have already said some will - but you can bet they won’t say which ones until the merger closes and the slot divestiture process has taken place so some city and state can’t come back and demand a redo to get their service back.
I fully expect that there will be another round of slots passed out by the DOT to increase service to small cities.

Bob...as long as its delta its ok for them to conquer the usa but to hell w all the other airlines. I put a question to wt on anthr thread n im still waiting but me thinks he just a lit bit upset that delta is nbr 3 or 2 and that no one took him up on his bet....

No, the principle is fair and aggressive competition.
Remember, DL has increased its network significantly since its BK and merger. DL has done it by running a very good business and by aggressively competing in markets such as to/from NYC which were traditionally the domain of other carriers, including AA.

If AA can grow post merger and fill in the holes in its network and take share from other carriers, more power to them.

I would be quite happy to report that AA has regained share in key markets or that it has managed to successfully grow in markets where it has traditionally been weak, but so far that has not happened.

And once again, it is rather ironic that people are rooting for DL to NOTE gain any of the assets.... which would seem to validate precisely what I have been saying that DL is a significant competitive threat to AA.

If DL weren't such a threat to AA, then it is hard to see why some people are carrying on the way they are about this deal.

It also doesn't change one iota that Dl will continue to grow its network where it needs to including in key AA and US markets regardless of whatever happens with the divestitures.

Success in the marketplace will come much further beyond the date the official merger date.

 

[767one]

so the merger is about politics? I thought the Justice dept. was charged with enforcing antitrust law.

WT,
I"m sure you're kidding. Almost everything important is about politics. Sad to say but politics have very little to do with doing what is right for the country. It's all about making the other party look bad and making your party look good.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[767one]

if that is the case then who is to say that DL can't buy the appeal process? 
 
Perhaps they are using the cash they are saving by buying used M90s and current generation 330s to buy justice instead of 787s?.
 
Do you truly want to live in a country where justice is for sale to the highest bidder?

Wt,

Like it or not it's been that way since the founding of this country. He who has the most expensive team of lawyers or sends the money in the right direction wins.

Cheers,

Bob
if that is the case then who is to say that DL can't buy the appeal process? 
 
Perhaps they are using the cash they are saving by buying used M90s and current generation 330s to buy justice instead of 787s?.
 
Do you truly want to live in a country where justice is for sale to the highest bidder?

 

[Bob Owens]

Size is not the issue, Bob. The issue is for the government picking winners and losers and deciding what cities should gain service and which should not. That is against what deregulation did.
 

Deregulation was about pricing, not service, in fact one of the arguments against deregulation was that small cities would lose service.

The role that DL said it wanted to play in the slot divestiture process is to ensure that small cities retain service to DCA.
 

Please, Delta could less about whether or not small cities lose service, they want to insure that they keep the competitive edge you boast about.
 

No, the principle is fair and aggressive competition.
Remember, DL has increased its network significantly since its BK and merger. DL has done it by running a very good business and by aggressively competing in markets such as to/from NYC which were traditionally the domain of other carriers, including AA.
 

Delta bought both Pan Am and Northwest. Pan Am had a huge operation in NY, and Delta doesn't employ even half of what Pan Am did in New York 25 years ago. Are you claiming that Delta continues to service all the smaller cities that those airlines serviced prior to being gobbled up by Delta? I'Il agree that Delta may have added cities with the purchase of NWA and Pan Am but that "added service" is disproportionately to big cities in Europe and Asia and not small domestic cities.
 

 

[MetalMover]

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/11/17/why-the-dojs-clipping-deltas-wings.aspx
 
 
I await WT's diatribe.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Bob Owens,
how many of TW's employees work for AA now? DL didn't hire many of PA's employees because DL didn't take over the hangar, the HDQ building, or the Latin America ops each of which included a large number of employees.

You and everyone else can rage all you want about what DL did to Pan Am but the simple fact is that many of the PA employee have retired, no one except for on here seems to care about it, and DL hired more PA employees than did any other airline, esp. UA who bought far more of the most valuable parts of PA than DL.

Why don't you rage against what UA did to PA?

PA didn't fly to many domestic cities at all... that was part of the problem. DL serves more small cities from NYC today than PA ever did. And yes DL picked up scores of small cities from NW and continues to serve them.

DL's interest in small/medium size cities is because there is money to be made flying there. Are you suggesting that US didn't care about serving the small cities attached to DCA other than for prestige and size? Please, Bob,

767 Bob,
your comments about politics are true... but I find it ironic that anyone here should suggest that DL should succumb to politics as normal while also complaining about it with the labor movement.

You are either for justice and equality in all cases or not at all. It isn't justice and equality if you pick and choose how and when you support it.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob Owens,
how many of TW's employees work for AA now? DL didn't hire many of PA's employees because DL didn't take over the hangar, the HDQ building, or the Latin America ops each of which included a large number of employees.

You and everyone else can rage all you want about what DL did to Pan Am but the simple fact is that many of the PA employee have retired, no one except for on here seems to care about it, and DL hired more PA employees than did any other airline, esp. UA who bought far more of the most valuable parts of PA than DL.

Why don't you rage against what UA did to PA?

PA didn't fly to many domestic cities at all... that was part of the problem. DL serves more small cities from NYC today than PA ever did. And yes DL picked up scores of small cities from NW and continues to serve them.

You are either for justice and equality in all cases or not at all. It isn't justice and equality if you pick and choose how and when you support it.

My guess is that AA employs more TWA workers than DL does PA workers. Didn't think I was "Raging" about it, just threw it out there, seems to be a touchy subject with you. The fact is that when DL merged with both Pan Am and NWA smaller cities saw less service from the new DL than they did when all three were in business, now you are claiming that DL is the champion of small cities. We all know that DL does not care about small cities, they want to retain the competitive edge you have been bragging about on this forum for some time. Maybe the DOJ believes you are right, DL does still have a competitive edge, so they certainly don't need more, you are right, the government is not in the job of picking winners and losers but rather to insure that the competition continues in perpetuity and that's why carriers that are considered disadvantaged in those markets are being offered those assets.

Justice and equality, please, you have admitted time and time again how even if AA didn't divest DL was still a superior company than AA.

 

[Kev3188]

...now you are claiming that DL is the champion of small cities. We all know that DL does not care about small cities, they want to retain the competitive edge you have been bragging about on this forum for some time.

Exactly.

Somewhere on this site is a list of the small cities that have been dropped since the NW/DL merger.

 

[robbedagain]

Wt you have to remember that when delta brought pan am it did hurt them my dad was one of many delta employees who had to move to keep job or take furlough he told our fam that in 1994 he went from orf to dca I do knw from a friend of mine whose dad worked for delta said that pa european ops hurt dl but the bombing of flight 103 also sealed the fate of pan am