United To Consider Acquisitions

[WorldTraveler]

JBG,
If you think DL is mismanaged because of Simplifares, then you are sorely misinformed. Even American Airlines which was one of the most outspoken against SF has come out and said it was a good thing and AA is making more money now than since. And that is coming from the carrier that tried unsuccessfully to rationalize fares itself. Only CO continues to call SF stupid but they seem to dead set that they will cut DL off since they like to announce new international cities like Berlin and Copenhagen just days after DL does it. Jumping into int’l cities on the spur of the moment is kind of ballsy. Besides, B6 is doing more to simplify CO’s fare structure at least out of EWR than anything DL did… and I don’t think B6 is anywhere near stopping.

Despite the pleasure with bashing DL, I do hope you realize that in several years in the late 90s, DL generated higher profits than UA did even though DL was about 20% smaller. Prior to 2001, DL has consistently been a more profitable airline than most other US airlines despite its network focus on connecting and Florida traffic - which says that perhaps those two strategies made a lot of sense until 5 years ago.

Jamake,
I commend you for making the best of your situation. Airline employees have got to see and accept the new reality of the industry and adapt or get out. It will never be the gravy train it once was. You have accepted and adapted and you will succeed.

NHBB,
I think you’re the one that seems fascinated on orchestrating an AA buyout of NW’s Asian routes despite the fact that it would require the complete failure of NW. There’s no one on this board that wants to sacrifice an entire airline to pick up a few routes. What motivates you?

 

[FWAAA]

NHBB,
I think you’re the one that seems fascinated on orchestrating an AA buyout of NW’s Asian routes despite the fact that it would require the complete failure of NW. There’s no one on this board that wants to sacrifice an entire airline to pick up a few routes. What motivates you?

What about me??

Bears isn't the only one. I'll be very happy when AA buys NW. Of course, AA won't keep it all, but it may hold onto more than just the NRT and China routes. MEM would be de-hubbed, as would MSP. DTW would be right-sized and more of NW's premium pax would be connected thru ORD and DFW.

I'll be equally happy when UA buys/merges with/combines with Delta.

We're long overdue for some consolidation and capacity reduction, and since UA and US didn't go under, either NW and/or DL needs to fail. Since that's unlikely, the next best thing is for them to combine with AA and UA, respectively. The legacy industry has shown an unwillingness to reduce capacity in the face of huge growth at WN, B6, FL and the other LCCs. Perhaps consolidation will bring necessary domestic capacity reductions. Then, simply breaking even won't be cause for celebration, because profits would be more likely they are today.

 

[Bulscu]

That's garbage. If UAL were going to liquidate months ago, they would have.

CAL did nothing to keep UAL's head above water, no matter how many cryptic posts you type.

What's the matter? Afraid UAL is going to staple you? Never fear, I've heard from some very reliable sources that United is going to go with the freight company, so you need to go find another dance partner. I hear Delta is looking.

THE CREDITORS ALREADY DECIDED WHAT HAPPENS TO UAL OVER 18 MONTHS AGO, WAIT, WATCH, LEARN...

HA HA HA....YOU ONLY "THINK" YOU'RE MARVELOUS...

THAT SAID, WE WELCOME YOU FOLKS OR AT LEAST MOST OF YOU!

...BEAUTIFUL

 

[jbguppy]

THE CREDITORS ALREADY DECIDED WHAT HAPPENS TO UAL OVER 18 MONTHS AGO, WAIT, WATCH, LEARN...

HA HA HA....YOU ONLY "THINK" YOU'RE MARVELOUS...

THAT SAID, WE WELCOME YOU FOLKS OR AT LEAST MOST OF YOU!

...BEAUTIFUL

Did USA320 pilot leave us airways??

Bulscu,

just because AMR has adopted some of the simplifare amounts doesn't make it a smart move for Delta. They are two very different companies with different financials. Delta was living on the revenue edge when they decided to reduce their own revenue. AMR has the cash to compete and can be more aggressive in their revenue strategies.

For DAL to slash their own revenues through simplifares during their biggest cash crunch and then go to their employees for more give backs was the single stupidest management move post 9-11 by any airline.

Please stop predicting who is going to merge with who or when - all you have is a guess - just like us all. You are just increasing the amount of people who will put you on ignore if you keep up your mantra.


JBG

 

[whlinder]

Even American Airlines which was one of the most outspoken against SF has come out and said it was a good thing and AA is making more money now than since.

I am curious where you saw this, I haven't read it anywhere. Link or a point in the right direction?

 

[Busdrvr]

I am curious where you saw this, I haven't read it anywhere. Link or a point in the right direction?

It worked GREAT for AMR since DAL lost so much money from it that they had to leave DFW...

 

[Hopeful]

I am not exactly a cheerleader when it comes to UAL management, but I will say this: While pay cuts indeed suck, I am grateful that I have a position that allows me to make up for my earnings shortfall. Most people in corporate America who have to take paycuts, have it IMPOSED upon them, with no way to make up for it, other than choosing to separate from the company. So while paycuts were unpleasant, I am grateful to have a job that allows me the opportunity to make it up, should I so choose to work more. During United's restructuring, I had the opportunity to take a voluntary furlough. During my time off, I worked in the real world (corporate America) as an Executive Assistant. The grass certainly wasn't any greener in the real world. And most working Americans do not have a pension, they have a 401K with some level of company match. So now I have a reduced pension AND a 401K with some company match. While you may choose to think that I am drinking some company Kool Aid, I choose to see my glass as half full, because I know it could of been much worse. And inspite of the pension dumps, pay cuts, etc. I still have a job that averages 15 days off a month and the opportunity to get paid for playing in places like Sydney, Shanghai, the beaches of Hawaii, or the great cities of New York and Boston. For me, it is STILL a pretty damn good gig. Enough said...

I take it you are either a pilot or flight attendnant.

It is one thing to start working for a company that does not have a traditional pension plan. But when you have worked most of your life having been promised a pension, the company should live up to their obligations.

It might be admirable to have the positive outlook you do, but when you say it could have been worse, how do you think the people on the street feel that their layoffs enable you to pick up more hours?
You are grateful that it wasn't worse, but your executives ask the same bankruptcy judge for a nice piece of the company after decimating the worker.

With your logic, down the road, companies will eventually say they don't owe any worker ANYHTING like medical benefits and eventually even a 401k match. But as long as you are happy working 15 days a month "playing" in exotic places, screw the next genreration and screw the folks who lost their once proud UAL airline jobs!

Yea, your glass of Kool Aid certainly is full!

 

[WorldTraveler]

I’m w/ JBG in wishing that the merger fascination would come to an end, particuarly as long as it is based on the need for someone to fail. I find the NW acquisitions by AA particularly objectionable because it would require ripping up most of NW; no other suggested merger would result in the same level of industry devastation. We do not need another AA/TW. Such cannibalism is bad for everyone in the industry and for the country as a whole.

The reality is that C11 has been a powerful force to stabilize the industry and give some carriers some breathing room to recover. C11 is not a panacea and some companies clearly have better reorganization plans. There will be some carriers today that will go back for another round – that is just statistically supportable from airline industry history and the current group of airlines is marching pretty much down the same path.

I believe the airlines that can improve revenue, cut costs, and shore up their balance sheet all at the same time have the best chance of emerging successfully and remaining viable. Cost cutting is usually a short term necessity to stabilize the company that translates into the ability to survive long-term but as everyone knows it is the fastest but also the most painful to do. Survival cannot depend solely on painful steps. CO’s survival is more attributable to their ability to improve their revenue and shore up their balance sheet than to cutting costs.

My optimism for DL is that they have the most balanced recovery plan of any of the legacies. They are growing revenue by a billion dollars (they say they can actually increase revenue by $2B but their creditors would allow only half of that amount to be put in the plan). They are cutting costs but employee cost cuts make up a smaller percentage of DL’s turnaround plan that UA or US (it’s hard to know NW’s final numbers since they are still in process). And finally, DL will shed more unsecured debt in bankruptcy than any other airline.

JBG,
I think you’re missing the point. AA acknowledges that Simplifares resulted in more revenue – not less. Even DL said the revenue loss was less than expected and turned positive very quickly. The reality is that consumers were leaving the legacy airlines in droves because they sensed they were being ripped off. While some fares are certainly lower, average fares are up which says the airlines have essentially been able to repackage their product so it looks more appealing and yet get more money for the same amount of service. That is a smart move in any business. And WH, I can't see I remember where I read AA's statements because I read and hear so much but more comments that regard finances are provided to the SEC because they have implications on stock prices.

 

[Bulscu]

Did USA320 pilot leave us airways??

Bulscu,

just because AMR has adopted some of the simplifare amounts doesn't make it a smart move for Delta. They are two very different companies with different financials. Delta was living on the revenue edge when they decided to reduce their own revenue. AMR has the cash to compete and can be more aggressive in their revenue strategies.

For DAL to slash their own revenues through simplifares during their biggest cash crunch and then go to their employees for more give backs was the single stupidest management move post 9-11 by any airline.

Please stop predicting who is going to merge with who or when - all you have is a guess - just like us all. You are just increasing the amount of people who will put you on ignore if you keep up your mantra.
JBG

AMR/nwac

CAL/ual

LUV/pieces

LCC/peices





Good luck to all concerned.

 

[whlinder]

It worked GREAT for AMR since DAL lost so much money from it that they had to leave DFW...

LMAO

They are growing revenue by a billion dollars (they say they can actually increase revenue by $2B but their creditors would allow only half of that amount to be put in the plan).

FlyI also *said* they would make money. It was in their 'plan'.

What exactly is DL's plan to grow revenue by 2bil?

And WH, I can't see I remember where I read AA's statements because I read and hear so much but more comments that regard finances are provided to the SEC because they have implications on stock prices.

Alright, I guess I'll have to take your word for it. Hopefully one of our AMR employees will stumble on this thread and they can confirm that this is the case.

 

[A737lvr]

For what it's worth... CAL mgmt. is saying "No merger" and correcting "miss quotes" adding what the end of the sentence said. They are stateing that CAL has a plan to remain independant. NO MERGER. With anyone! An independant plan. This news is the same as everything they pump out....take it for what it is... But they are saying "No merger" People at the top are saying it is not in the plan.
What you or I think may be different. CALTED, UNICAL, CONTINENTAL. As you know United is set to fail right now. What will they do to change that corse? Merge?

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

As you know United is set to fail right now. What will they do to change that corse? Merge?

Really? Any proof of that? I think UAL is going to PROSPER. (do you think if I type that everyday it will become fact?) The "ANALysts" have been predicting our failure for years now but somehow United keeps remaining a strong (and still #2) airline. United has been, and will continue to be a force to be reckoned with. Count on it!

 

[JAMAKE1]

I take it you are either a pilot or flight attendnant.

It is one thing to start working for a company that does not have a traditional pension plan. But when you have worked most of your life having been promised a pension, the company should live up to their obligations.

It might be admirable to have the positive outlook you do, but when you say it could have been worse, how do you think the people on the street feel that their layoffs enable you to pick up more hours?
You are grateful that it wasn't worse, but your executives ask the same bankruptcy judge for a nice piece of the company after decimating the worker.

With your logic, down the road, companies will eventually say they don't owe any worker ANYHTING like medical benefits and eventually even a 401k match. But as long as you are happy working 15 days a month "playing" in exotic places, screw the next genreration and screw the folks who lost their once proud UAL airline jobs!

Yea, your glass of Kool Aid certainly is full!

Look buddy. I consider myself a realist. An industry-wide correction has been going on for quite some time. Furthermore, U.S. companies are finding that they need to be leaner, meaner, and more efficient in order to compete in the global marketplace.

As a United Airlines worker, I take issue when some of you suggest that we've been "raped" or "decimated." We did what we had to do in order to attract equity investment so that the company could successfully emerge from Chapter 11. On some level, we're at the mercy of powers larger than United Airlines (read Wall Street).

If you think I am drinking Kool Aide because I am not choosing to be angry and bitter and "victimized", then so be it. I am just looking at the reality of the world we live in. In spite of all the concessions, and having experienced the corporate world beyond the airline industry, for me, my career with United is still workable.

I just wanted to merely point out that when people suggest that UAL workers have been "raped" or "decimated", I feel that they aren't speaking for me. One more thing. It could've been much worse. A judge could've abrogated our contract, the company could've liquidated or been sold off in parts, the pay cuts could've been deeper, and our work rules could've been gutted. None of those things happened. Yes, the gravy train may be over, but it still gives me the flexibility and opportunity to enjoy my life. And it STILL beats having to really WORK for a living....

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

Or even worse, we could have bent over like AA did for free. They totally gave up ALL work rules for nothing. (example: 14 hour GRU layovers vs UAL 42 hour layovers)

 

[IORFA]

Don't know about you, but I like being home 4-5 more days per month for the same money.