...ahhh, (euphemism), 'they're stretching the truth,' and if'en you voted 'yes', you get to receive the full brunt of 'unintended consequences....'
...standby
United To Consider Acquisitions
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...ahhh, (euphemism), 'they're stretching the truth,' and if'en you voted 'yes', you get to receive the full brunt of 'unintended consequences....'
...standby
Jamake is a UA F/A.
UA currently has zero F/As out on furlough, and in fact recently hired / is currently hiring around 2000 new ones.
Therefore Jamake picking up more hours has no impact in the way you are suggesting.
AMR/nwac
CAL/ual
LUV/pieces
LCC/peices
Good luck to all concerned.
USA320 PILOT/bulscu...
You have been assimilated. :down: now you are on ignore merger boy.
JBG
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
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I have no idea.
I was responding to the suggestion that somehow Jamake was keeping someone out on furlough because he was picking up extra time.
He isn't.
(BTW, if there were still F/As out on involuntary furlough, I would agree that it would be inappropriate for the remaining F/As to be picking up any extra time.)
I am not very familiar with the mechanics' situation.
UAL's 10-Ks reveal that about 6,305 mechanics and related were eliminated. UAL trimmed 48% of its mechanics.
At 12/31/01, UAL had 13,106 mechanics and related;
At 12/31/04, only 6,801 mechanics and related remained.
http://ir.united.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=83680...CZhdHRhY2g9b24=
http://ir.united.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=83680...CZhdHRhY2g9b24=
I suspect that this years' 10-K (not yet filed) will show additional reductions in the mechanics ranks during 2005.
oouuuu, ouuuuchhhh!
...Get ready, it's a comin and it ain't gonna be pretty.
1st Qtr triggers....
AMR/nwac
CAL/ual
LUV/pieces
LCC/pieces/airbuses and more airbuses
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
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My point exactly! His outlook is rosy and his glass is half full and he only works 15 days a month and gets to see all exotic destinations. As pointed out, 2000 f/a's will be hired. How many mechanics aren't even working 15 days a month for anyone!
Typical case of "I got mine"
spacewaitress
Senior
- Aug 27, 2002
- 468
- 0
I think that what we ended up getting seemed pretty good. Especially for the very junior and very senior. I'm one of the guys that am in the middle and will theoretically be able to meet about 65% of my promissed pension...If I work here till 60. That won't happen though, I don't think as I hope to be in a nursing program in a year. I think it'd be great if they started giving leaves again and I got my nursing gig going and worked here too. The company is in flux these days so it may not be so inconceivable.
So ... what are you saying he should do? Go to work angry every day and be miserable all the time? Quit as some sort of protest that there had to be layoffs in other work groups?
I think he made it clear the present situation works for him at this time, as apparently it does for the other tens of thousands of UA employees who remain. I actually took a different path and realized the F/A job was no longer worth it for me in this "new environment," and so I quit. But I am not sure what you point is with Jamake or how you think he (and all the other remaining UA employees) should be reacting to the current situation. We all have different tolerances, opportunities and choices. All he said was it still works for him, and when it no longer does he may consider something else. I am not sure what he can do about the mechanics that remain laid off.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
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What I am saying is that he should not make asinine and selfish comments like how he only works 15 days a month and gets to go to all exciting destinations.All while mass suffering continues for airline employees.
It is fine to have an upbeat attitude about the current situation going on in the airline industry, but look at cost. Noone will ever see all of their promised pensions.
How foolish can people be to be happy to get only 65% of their promised pensions instead of the 100% they spent their lives working towards.
All the concessions, bankruptcys and threats of bankruptcys are meant to break the unions. Airlines have succeeded in demoralizing us and breaking us. We are done in this industry and Jamake is just ecstatic to go to far and exotic destinations in only 15 days a month.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM!
Because in the years ahead, airlines, and companies in general will then say, "hey we don't have to give these employees anything! no 401k, no medical! They come to work and they get paid! That's it!
And then Jamake will be able to say at least he is still working 15 days a month and still going to exotic destinations.
His glass may be half full now, but look ahead and you can see the trend to eliminating all benefits has already begun in the name of ooutsourcing!
Now, a little bit about myself!
I was one of the Eastern Airline workers who told Frank Lorenzo to go to hell. I risked 20 years and went on strike to end the "new airline order" and new arrogant greedy management that was plagueing the industry at that point. I, and many of my former co workers would gladly do it all again in a heartbeat if given the chance. I get roughly half my promised pension when EAL folded.
So in response as what course to take in these times!
SHUT EM DOWN!
Do you remember when working for an airline was the most enviable employment?
Thanks to attitudes like Jamake's, we can all be lucky just to have jobs!
Oh please. Enough of the martyr syndrome from airline employees. If you really feel your employment situation can be described as "mass suffering," DO something about it already, for heaven's sake! Why would you continue to stay in what you believe to be an abusive relationship?
Yup, until enough people refuse to work under those conditions, management will continue to see what they can get away with. Unfortunately, there seems to be no shortage of people willing to work for "the airlines" for less and less.
Unfortunately, over the past couple of years, it has become very obvious that airline employees in fact are NOT willing to go through an EAL situation again. How many actual strikes have there been since the concession carnage began five years ago? Zero.
I agree that that is one viable alternative in some situations. Unfortunately, not enough airline employees agree with you and me, as has been proven over and over during the last five years. Airline employees have sent one unmistakeable message to management: Take what you want! We may btich and moan a lot, but when it comes down to it, we aren't going anywhere!
Are people like Jamake part of the problem? To a degree, yes. But no more than the other thousands of airline employees who remain. Yet you single out Jamake.
Hopeful, are YOU still working for UA under these supposedly deplorable conditions?
If so, how are you any less to blame for the current state of affairs than Jamake is?
Jamake is only guilty of articulating what all other airline employees are obviously thinking: things really aren't all that bad, because we're still here.
JAMAKE1
Veteran
Bear, thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth as well as going to bat for me. The point I was trying to get across was that as a United worker, I do not feel as though I have been "raped" or "decimated." Those who DO feel betrayed by the company, certainly have valid reasons for harboring such feelings. Considering we spent 3 years in bankruptcy, the fact that we have retained MOST of our work rules and duty rigs, combined with the fact that we have ratified a reasonable pension replacement agreement, and the fact that I did receive equity in the newly emerged company equaling several thousand dollars, the POINT I was merely trying to get across is that it really isn't quite so bad. There are still opportunities (within my workgroup, at least) to make up for our earnings shortfall. And so for myself, it is STILL a workable gig and while I am personally not bitter and angry, I am by no means implying that others are wrong for feeling that way. The great news is that we have options. For the time being, I am opting to stick with it for a little while longer.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
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Happy to still be alive, Jamake? I bet you're the type who cheers and goes over to one of the execs flying in first class and congratulates them with bringing UAL out of bankrutcy and for getting themselves 8% of the company!
What did you get, Jamake! The option to continue flying 15 days a month and a reasonable alternative to a pension that you worked long and hard for!
I said before, your optimistic outlook is admirable. but with that attitude, these greedy fat cats will continue to take advantage of the worker.
I am with AA right now. Lost 20 years at EAL.
Why do I stay in this business? Do the math.
20 years at EAL and 16 at AA.......
Need a few more years to retire. To date AA hasn't gone after our pensions. But they will. But I don't see them continuing to be the one remaining holdout while the rest of the industry has lost their traditional defined benefit plan.
And believe it or not, I would be willing to go on strike and do it all again.
Am I the only one to see that airline management has not "shared in the sacrifice?"
I read about what has happened at USAIR, UAL, NWA and DAL and at AA I lost roughly $20,000 a year with all concessions figured in.
If I were younger, I would not be here right now.
The mind and spirit are willing, but the body is not.
Im surpised at you Bear for mocking my reference to airline employees' suffering! Do you know that were quite a few suicides when EAL went on strike and consequently belly up? Never mind the divorces.
What would you call the losses after years and decades of service to oue respective airlines?
At least I can say, I did my part with a job action against the airlines. What can many others say?
So, if no one is willing to make a stand against greedy airline management, then this entire bulletin board should not allow unhappy employees and turn the whole think rose colored.
You guys took in the shorts, a=nd the fat cats got 8% of the company after being refused 15%.
Where is the outrage?
Let me give you a scenario of the recent events at AA. Thanks to the pilot group, they saved AA about $80,000,000.00 in fuel. One engine taxis, not starting the APU until 10 mins before departure and ensuring that ground power was available upon arrival.
$80,000,000.00 in fuel savings alone. What a savings!
But AA recently announced the stock performance plan for the top 1000 managers in the company which is estimated at $79,000,000.00
No outrage on the pilot's part!
That is the problem.. People talk a good game, but don't have the balls to show their outrage.
SO, yes, people like Jamake are part of the problem.
But if anyone thinks that there won't be further concessions and outright losses, should meet Jamake in those marvelous exotic destinations he visits every 15 days.
What did you get, Jamake! The option to continue flying 15 days a month and a reasonable alternative to a pension that you worked long and hard for!
I said before, your optimistic outlook is admirable. but with that attitude, these greedy fat cats will continue to take advantage of the worker.
I am with AA right now. Lost 20 years at EAL.
Why do I stay in this business? Do the math.
20 years at EAL and 16 at AA.......
Need a few more years to retire. To date AA hasn't gone after our pensions. But they will. But I don't see them continuing to be the one remaining holdout while the rest of the industry has lost their traditional defined benefit plan.
And believe it or not, I would be willing to go on strike and do it all again.
Am I the only one to see that airline management has not "shared in the sacrifice?"
I read about what has happened at USAIR, UAL, NWA and DAL and at AA I lost roughly $20,000 a year with all concessions figured in.
If I were younger, I would not be here right now.
The mind and spirit are willing, but the body is not.
Im surpised at you Bear for mocking my reference to airline employees' suffering! Do you know that were quite a few suicides when EAL went on strike and consequently belly up? Never mind the divorces.
What would you call the losses after years and decades of service to oue respective airlines?
At least I can say, I did my part with a job action against the airlines. What can many others say?
So, if no one is willing to make a stand against greedy airline management, then this entire bulletin board should not allow unhappy employees and turn the whole think rose colored.
You guys took in the shorts, a=nd the fat cats got 8% of the company after being refused 15%.
Where is the outrage?
Let me give you a scenario of the recent events at AA. Thanks to the pilot group, they saved AA about $80,000,000.00 in fuel. One engine taxis, not starting the APU until 10 mins before departure and ensuring that ground power was available upon arrival.
$80,000,000.00 in fuel savings alone. What a savings!
But AA recently announced the stock performance plan for the top 1000 managers in the company which is estimated at $79,000,000.00
No outrage on the pilot's part!
That is the problem.. People talk a good game, but don't have the balls to show their outrage.
SO, yes, people like Jamake are part of the problem.
But if anyone thinks that there won't be further concessions and outright losses, should meet Jamake in those marvelous exotic destinations he visits every 15 days.
OP
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- Jan 14, 2004
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #90
It is sad that your life has been difficult in the airline industry Hopeful but you really are throwing flames at the wrong people. When AA threatened bk, your people greased up their own butts and took it faster than any of us already in bk. The work rules (for AA f/a's) is horrible. UAL has nothing as bad as those work rules. After seeing AA f/a's lose everything, our f/a's decided to take bigger paycuts to retain our workrules. Remember, ours were forced IN bankruptcy but your airlines took them OUT of bankruptcy. I'm thinking that you should probably go to the AA board and flame people seeing that the biggest concessions were taken from them.
