Unions dig in for Delta fight

[Kev3188]

We just need to make sure it is the union we want...

And therein lies the rub... The easiest way to do that-getting everyone involved-is usually the hardest to achieve in practice.

YOU (in a general sense; not you specifically) create the union you want; the name on the door is secondary.

 

[justanadd]

We just need to make sure it is the union we want and not one being forced upon us like the last campaign.

It is very unlikely that there will be time to get another union on the ballot. We can't take a chance of losing the NW contract and the protections it provides. Such as preventing the outsourcing of flying to foreign nationals and the requirement that management negotiate a fence agreement that will protect both groups flying until we get a combined contract.

 

[aislehopper]

If the group as a whole truly wants to get rid of the afa, flight attendants will have to "not vote" in the election. After decertifying the afa, the proponents of a new union can start building its network. The afa is too strong with the DL group and is already entrenched in the NWA group. It would win any election with two unions on the ballot.

As for international flying, non union DL has no foreign national flight attendants.

 

[justanadd]

"not vote" in the election. After decertifying the afa, the proponents of a new union can start building its network.

Dangerous move - keeping the NW contract is too important

 

[justanadd]

As for international flying, non union DL has no foreign national flight attendants.

They will soon along with IFSR's - Inflight Service Represenatives (interpreter's).

 

[aislehopper]

They will soon along with IFSR's - Inflight Service Represenatives (interpreter's).

We already have Language of Destination (LOD) flight attendants on our aircraft. They are fully qualified Delta flight attendants who are already on our seniority list. I believe that at NWA your are starting to implement a type of LOD program as well.

If you review Delta's history with foreign national flight attendants, we had the largest number of them after we combined with Pan Am. Their numbers shrank until only the India based flight attendants were left. Once we went to India non stop, DL let them go.

 

[aislehopper]

Dangerous move - keeping the NW contract is too important

I could see you point if the NWA contract were a model example of what a flight attendant contract should look like. However, it is a concessionary contract. Sometimes no contract is better than a bad one.

 

[cooper43]

And therein lies the rub... The easiest way to do that-getting everyone involved-is usually the hardest to achieve in practice.

YOU (in a general sense; not you specifically) create the union you want; the name on the door is secondary.

The name on the door does matter if most of the dues you are paying that particular union is going to help organize other carriers. I would like my dues to go to my airline and not other airlines. All airlines should be able to have thier own union but still support each other in strikes or any kind of job action. Just like a relationship between two alliance members.

 

[justanadd]

I could see you point if the NWA contract were a model example of what a flight attendant contract should look like. However, it is a concessionary contract. Sometimes no contract is better than a bad one.

NWA has some of the best scope and LPP protections in the industry. You really need to look at the contract it is a lot more than just hourly wages. And again without a union or contract their is no fence agreement - something that will protect both groups flying.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Sometimes no contract is better than a bad one.

Not in this DL/NW instance!

 

[justanadd]

Sometimes no contract is better than a bad one.

An example of having a contract!

"United will also by laying off 213 flight attendants who are foreign nationals, based in Bangkok and Singapore. Those workers must be let go before any unionized members can be furloughed, as they are not members of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, according to the union."

 

[Hi-C-Camp]

An example of having a contract!

"United will also by laying off 213 flight attendants who are foreign nationals, based in Bangkok and Singapore. Those workers must be let go before any unionized members can be furloughed, as they are not members of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, according to the union."

I believe the contract at UAL states that there can be no more than 1% of foreign nationals in our ranks.. Also foreign nationals must be let go b/f any furloughs take place on union property. Whereas you dont have a contract, so DAL could say tomorrow, we are outsourcing 30% of all international flying and you wouldn't have a say no matter what... Also, if DAL furloughs, they can say we are going to rehire new hires instead of recall.. I just can't believe that you guys are that blind.. I can't help but laugh half of the time.. I can't tell you how many times i have cursed at AFA, but let me tell you something, they have saved and protected my job, in the event of furlough and also in other "misguided instances" that i would not have wanted to be at DAL representing myself at.. You can take that to the bank koolaid drinkers...

 

[cooper43]

If the Dems get the majority next year with a Dem in the white house, they said they would make it easier to organize. This sounds like good news and I think that unionization of a lot of industries will increase. This will be a major reason to get labor workers to vote for Obama.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Hi everyone--Just checked in and read some of this thread. With limited time, I will add the following:

The concensus I am hearing among NW friends of mine who are not exactly enthralled with AFA is to get a union (AFA in this case) voted in first, THEN, depending on how AFA does with our new group/contract negotiations, leave open the option to decertify AFA for another (hopefully better, more responsive) union. I know many will regurgitate the company line about how difficult it is to decertify/vote out a union. Remember, however, NW f/a's have done it twice in the past 5-6 years. First by voting out Teamsters for PFAA, then PFAA for AFA.

We have neither the time, nor the resources to fall for this fantasy of not voting in AFA and then trying to recruit for another union from the ground up...signing cards, etc. It could take many, many years.
Since the May election, I've done some thinking and I feel now, more than ever, that there are other alternatives to AFA, however, I don't think not voting in the next election (thus having no representation at all), then later trying to organize 21,000 f/a's around a new union from the ground up is good strategy.
Just my .02

 

[Kev3188]

If the Dems get the majority next year with a Dem in the white house, they said they would make it easier to organize.

Not if the NMB rules are changed before then like NW/DL wants...

With all due respect, how many more reasons are you going to come up with to stall this process?!