Union Solidarity

[delldude]

bottom line though is we all need to work together no matter who we are.

 

[Mike W]

Delldude,
Youe are right on that point. We got bigger problems then who resides in the White House. Like who resides in the Crystal Palace!

 

[Dilligas]

Jeez Dilligas,
Since you put it that way,I think I'll go throw myself under a bus! LOL

Mike,

Sorry to hear that reality makes you suicidal. It is a harsh thing when one realizes that most of what you have been conditioned to believe is a fiction. And I assure you respectfully, it is.

If you have the curiousity or the intellectual energy to do some research, you will be astounded at what you discover.

I am a realist and a free thinker. Try it, you'll like it.

 

[Dilligas]

bottom line though is we all need to work together no matter who we are.

I agree, "dude". However, I feel that it must be working together on substance, not show. Pins, t-shirts, ribbons, and buttons just don't excite me.

I would love to see the employees of U, organized and salaried, and our valued passengers/customers unite against this abusive regime. The window of opportunity is very small.

 

[Teflon]

Bob, unions are necessary in the airline industry, go ask Mike W what happened to the non-union employees back in 1992.

I thank god we have a union, otherwise Dave would have had carte blanche when it came to concessions.

And I believe the Airbus issue is the spark the has ignited the solidarity amongst the workers at U.

Dave showed his true colors of doing whatever he wants and forgot about contract language.

 

[Mike W]

Bob,
First of all,I don't hate you.You don't know me so it's a bit presumptuous of you to even make that statement. There's a reason why this company is so heavily unionized. For a long time my work group,Fleet Service,and the Customer Service agents were non-union. When it came time for cut backs,we were the ones to get wacked because the management didn't have to negotiate a thing, they just took it. Back in 1995, if we hadn't voted for representation, I and six thousand of my co-workers would have been out on the street becuase US Air was going to contract out Fleet Service,just like Delta did. So, I'm afraid you're going to have a hard time convincing me that being a union member is not in my best interest.
This current regime has proven time and again that they are not to be trusted. The list of outright lies and half truths is long to say the least.When politicians call Siegel less than honest and use words like scoundrel,then you have to wonder. I think it falls under the category of "It takes one,to know one. What bothers me is that if Dave left tomorrow,it wouldn't matter. They no longer teach ethics in business school.

 

[Teflon]

Mike, why don't you tell Bob about PDOs, Part-time, loss of pension, no sick or vacation time and everything else Butch took away from your group.

 

[Mike W]

Teflon,
We have no one to blame but ourselves for that. We should have organized long before. I never thought I'd see the day when Customer Service would organize,so that should give some idea of how bad it's gotten. The bad part of all of this is, I love my job. I must, I'm currently commuting between DFW and my home in Northeast Ohio because CLE was turned into a Mainline Express station in June. With everything bad that has happened in the last few years,this is still a good job. I just don't trust or respect the people who are running this company.

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

This is where I will forever disagree with you. Social Security has been a "life saver" for many of the elderly past and present. Whether you believe it is an albatrosse and a total burden to our children...they too will one day grow old, and on and on and on. Many folks can not and do not invest. There are many situations in your life time that cause you do go deep into your savings and take it. With regard to Social Secuirty tax, you cannot tap on that under any circumstances. Unlike your 401K.

My father who owned and operated a restaurant for 40 years, and all his income went to raising 5 of us. He told me when he was living that social security was the best thing that ever happend for the lederly and retirees. My father was in the stock market most of his life. Unfortuantely, some years he did well, and other years, he lost his shirt. Personally as retirement vehicles, I have a 401K (that got desimated these past few years), a defined pension, a universal life policy, savings, and social security to retire on when the time comes. Some of the retirement investments I have are secured and some I can manipulate. So, I stand a good chance of living modestly when I retire so that I don't burden my children or the "state".

So, I will never ever agree with you on your point of investing your own money for retirement specifically if you think all should be in the person's individual hands for manipulation. I believe the safest way to plan for your "golden years" is to have a few vehicles in the fire. One solid element is the Social Security at 65. I've got 20 years to go so......

May it live on!

 

[Teflon]

Nice post PITbull.

 

[Dilligas]

Dilligas, <snip> Who proposed and signed FAST TRACK?

George Walker Bush.

Your post implies Fast Track is something new that "Dubya" concocted. It's not, it has been around a long, long time...

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V117/N33/labor.33w.html

excerpt:

President Clinton hinted on Saturday he may offer modest concessions to labor groups to help win support for his controversial "fast-track" trade legislation but said he intends to push hard for the measure, even if they remain opposed.

<snip>

"Fast-track authority, which essentially would guarantee that Congress will act quickly to approve or reject any new trade accord and not try to amend specific provisions, has long been demanded by U.S. trading partners before they will begin negotiations.

The authority has been granted to both Republican and Democratic administrations since 1974, but it expired in 1994, after approval of the North American Free Trade Agreement with Canada and Mexico.

The administration tried to renew the fast-track authority in 1995, but the bill failed in the Republican-controlled Congress because of a dispute over a bid by liberal Democrats to require that labor and environmental issues be part of the main agreement in future trade accords."

-------

That being said, I personally oppose fast track as I feel it compromises the checks and balances of our form of government and puts too much power in the executive branch, regardless of party in control.

I am not an isolationist, I believe in "Fair Trade" which is unrestricted, and in capitalism as opposed to socialism. However, I believe the trade practices and treaties of the last 50 years have undermined American workers and the first responsibility of our government is to American citizens. Yeah, I know I'm dreaming.

----

Shifting gears slightly, I have never read Piney Bob say that unions should not exist at US Airways. His theme, as I read him, is one of "personal accountability" and responsibility, and not becoming dependent upon the corporate or union "teet" for your career options. I agree with that philosophy, although I think PB defends Dave's practices a bit too much. I have no respect or trust in our management. One should always have a plan B or even plan C in mind and not put all your eggs in one basket.

I also agree with Mike W. that unions MUST exist at US Airways, due to the "management" practices. I support labor at U as the collective bargaining agent and the representative of the workforces. I do not support unions telling members how to vote, as tools of social engineering, and advocates of bullying tactics in the workplace.

 

[Dilligas]

So, I will never ever agree with you on your point of investing your own money for retirement. I believe the safest way to plan for your "golden years" is to have a few vehicles in the fire.

PITbull,

Interesting mixed metaphor! But I believe your point was one needs to have several plans going and not rely solely on one. I agree with you.

Seems to me this is in agreement with Bob... isn't he saying wake up and take responsibility for your retirement? Don't blindly believe in social security being there? When he says it is a sham, could it be the sham is some people believe they will be taken care of in their old age, they may not be very sophisticated when it comes to finance issues and retirement planning, and when the harsh reality of how little social security pays, they are shocked? Why on earth would you NOT invest your own money to fund retirement?

Or am I just corn-fused?

:blink:

 

[PITbull]

Dilligas,

Simply put, we are far from agreement, and in this instance, you are definitely confused.

Many folks don't make enough to put aside savings once they start having families. That is the reality. Many folks on here who believe otherwise, don't have spouses or children. It just depends on your livable disposable income which dictates your survival and your familes. And alot goes into that, for instance, you have a child that is sick or disabled, or a spouse. Limits your ability to save. Number of children, again limits your ability to save quite a bit. 401K vehicles are nice as long as the investment is secure. If it has low risk, more than likely the yeild is super super low. The great thing about SS is everyone contributes who works, and everyone who has worked will collect in their "golden retiring years".

No, I don't believe that is what Bob is implying. I have debated this with him on several topics quite a few months back. I believe the issue for me is: "we are our brothers keeper" OR are we "survival of the fittest" attitudes. Many here do have that kind of mind set and heart of" its-all-about-me", so we will forever disapgree.

Some on here believe, "hell with the world, I made it"!, or "Whether you exist or not is not my problem", and then those who believe, with regard to the Social security debate..... "just- because -you -don't- know- how- to -invest, -why- should -I suffer"?, type of attitudes.

I have no use for the .."its-all-about-me-world, I-made-it-now-f%$ off, types.

I position myself to survive and help all those I can around me. But, that's just me.
I guess I balance out those above. And obviously, there are many who think like me because there is a balance in our socieity. As long as these philosophies live on! Makes the world go round...woudn't you say?

Bob can speak for himself on this; he always does.



Bob,

Yes Bob, your social security tax, IS YOUR INVESTMENT. If you live long enough, you will get all you put in and some. Be pleased with that! The idea, is to stay healthy, exercise, sleep well, and keep the stress loooowwww...LOL...

And you state above the government shouldn't be into things like Social Security...

What? Should they instead be bailing out the airlines full of inept managments? Yea, that's where my tax dollars should go....bailing out business and industries so they can turn around, decrease my wages, benefits, terminate pensions and in return, offer me a job with poverety wages...yup, all on my tax dollar.


NO THANK YOU. I'LL TAKE MY SOCIAL SECURITY TAX PLEASE! At least I know I'll get that back.

 

[cavalier]

Your post that FDR got us out is ludicrous! Presidents don't get us into economic crap or out, the natural economic cycle does that all by itself for the most part all we do is prolong or delay the inevitable.

ludicrous he said...hmmm lets see


Bush number two and the country is in the Sh===er AGAIN, but presidents don't matter. Nope sure don't...hmmmm. Glad Bob is on here to enlightened us uneducated ones along. LOL

 

[cavalier]

Bob,

This is where I will forever disagree with you. Social Security has been a "life saver" for many of the elderly past and present. Whether you believe it is an albatorsse and a total burden to our children...they too will one day grow old, and on and on and on. Many folks can not and do not invest. There are many situations in your life time that cause you do go deep into your savings a take it. Social Secuirty tax, you cannot tap on under any circumstances. Unlike your 401K. My father who owned and operated a restaurant, told me when he was living that social security was the best thing that ever happend for the lederly and retirees. My father was in the stock market most of his life. Unfortuantely, some years he did well, and other years, he lost his shirt.

So, I will never ever agree with you on your point of investing your own money for retirement. I believe the safest way to plan for your "golden years" is to have a few vehicles in the fire. One solid element is the Social Security at 65.

May it live on!

PIT,

How is the fact that some people are morons and do not save and invest my problem? I earned the money through my efforts! It's MY MONEY!

All of this talk of morality! Where is the morality of confiscating the fruits of my labor to susidize YOUR (not you personally) stupidity. Why should I in effect pay a "Stupid peoples tax"?

Excluding mental or physically abnormalities, everyone comes into the world naked and leaves in a box. In the United States more than any other country what you do in between those 2 events is largely determined by you and you alone.

Does that mean we have no compassion as a society? Certainly not! What we or at least me are arguing that the Federal Government shouldn't be involved in those endeavors. We have many organizations that deliver oft needed social services far more cost effectively then our government can. Therefore the Government should take steps to let the charitable largesse in this country flourish even more and have the government stick to the charter that created it and protect us from foriegn invaders, which if the government had been focused on doing it's PRIMARY job of defending us from foriegn invassion then perhaps all of us would be involved in more productive endeavors instead of being caught up in the aftermath of a gross failure of our Federal Government to do the ONE thing everybody agrees it should do! Protect us.

With that line of reasoning how can you justify your buddy BUSH, GIVING away 87 BILLION dollars, GIVE it away! And that is not the only grant WE the people GIVE away. So we GIVE it away and let the home folk fend for themselves with your logic. Once again Bob,thanks for the laugh LOL