underfly vote
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On 7/12/2003 11:24:52 AM MiAAmi wrote:
Never mind. I guess the company can inform me before my Union can inform me. I just recieved an e-mail from the company informing me of our vote. I wonder why the Union can't be more on the ball and get the info to us first.
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On 7/12/2003 11:24:52 AM MiAAmi wrote:
Never mind. I guess the company can inform me before my Union can inform me. I just recieved an e-mail from the company informing me of our vote. I wonder why the Union can't be more on the ball and get the info to us first.
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The hotline was updated last night around 1030pm. The transcripted version went out this morning for the web site. We did not finish counting ballots until about 9pm or so. There was a gallery set up for flight attendants who wished to observe the balloting process.
I don't know how much more on the ball they can be. Linda Rivas updated the hotline last night after the results were certified by Whitley Penn.
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On 7/12/2003 12:38:52 PM MiAAmi wrote:
Some of us might be on trips out of the country were we can''t observe or call a hotline. Why does it take so long to write whats on the hotline and place it on the website? Some of us only have access to the internet at times and I would think that anyone that can type 30wpm or more could place that on the website before noon the following day. Thats what I mean being more on the ball.
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On 7/12/2003 12:38:52 PM MiAAmi wrote:
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On 7/12/2003 12
16 PM s80dude wrote:
The hotline was updated last night around 1030pm. The transcripted version went out this morning for the web site. We did not finish counting ballots until about 9pm or so. There was a gallery set up for flight attendants who wished to observe the balloting process.
I don''t know how much more on the ball they can be. Linda Rivas updated the hotline last night after the results were certified by Whitley Penn.
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On 7/12/2003 12
16 PM s80dude wrote: The hotline was updated last night around 1030pm. The transcripted version went out this morning for the web site. We did not finish counting ballots until about 9pm or so. There was a gallery set up for flight attendants who wished to observe the balloting process.
I don''t know how much more on the ball they can be. Linda Rivas updated the hotline last night after the results were certified by Whitley Penn.
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Some of us might be on trips out of the country were we can''t observe or call a hotline. Why does it take so long to write whats on the hotline and place it on the website? Some of us only have access to the internet at times and I would think that anyone that can type 30wpm or more could place that on the website before noon the following day. Thats what I mean being more on the ball.
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I can certainly see where you are coming from (I am domestic and never leave the country so I never thought about that). Perhaps because the balloting ended so late and today is a weekend, an APFA secretary was not standing by to transcribe it promptly. That is why I tried to get a quick message out last night when I got home, for those that wait for the online updates.
There is a complete breakdown at:
http://www.apfa.org/underfly_ballots.pdf
if anyone cares to see how each base voted.
Fly Safe,
s80dude
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On 7/12/2003 12:06:08 PM DFWCC wrote:
Ok for us under the wing type. What is option #2?
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On 7/12/2003 12:06:08 PM DFWCC wrote:
Ok for us under the wing type. What is option #2?
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Part of the concessions the company wanted us to agree to was an underfly agreement. Say a trip MIA-NYC is scheduled to take 3hrs and you actually make it in 2.5 hours. The company only wanted to credit us for the 2.5 hrs. Since the membership was not happy with this item the company offered to exchange this item for 1 of 2 other options. The 2nd option basically changed the length of duty a domestic f/a can be flown and accounted for an additional 200 or so less positions. The 3rd option played with our sick time and accounted for even less positions. Obviously I am giving you the general terms and there are a few little details I am leaving out but I hope you understand. Option 2 seemed the least offensive in my opinion. Even with the 200 or so positions lost the company must still offer leaves. I really doubt that there will be any furloughs in the end with this option.
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On 7/12/2003 1216 PM s80dude wrote:
The hotline was updated last night around 1030pm. The transcripted version went out this morning for the web site. We did not finish counting ballots until about 9pm or so. There was a gallery set up for flight attendants who wished to observe the balloting process.
I don''t know how much more on the ball they can be. Linda Rivas updated the hotline last night after the results were certified by Whitley Penn.
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On 7/12/2003 12
16 PM s80dude wrote: The hotline was updated last night around 1030pm. The transcripted version went out this morning for the web site. We did not finish counting ballots until about 9pm or so. There was a gallery set up for flight attendants who wished to observe the balloting process.
I don''t know how much more on the ball they can be. Linda Rivas updated the hotline last night after the results were certified by Whitley Penn.
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Some of us might be on trips out of the country were we can''t observe or call a hotline. Why does it take so long to write whats on the hotline and place it on the website? Some of us only have access to the internet at times and I would think that anyone that can type 30wpm or more could place that on the website before noon the following day. Thats what I mean being more on the ball.
jimntx
Veteran
Option I: Keep underfly provision as is in the RA (restructuring agreement). This provision states that f/a flight pay will be based upon actual flying time rather than block time. If a flight is "blocked" at 2:00 hrs, but arrives at the gate in 1:45, then the f/a is paid 1:45. Up until now, the f/a was paid the greater of block time or actual time.
Option II: This option eased the restrictions on what is a "legal" sequence. For instance, the total duty day length from 1st sign-in of the day to last arrival; the total amount of actual flying time was increased (I'm not sure about the exact figures--as soon as the votes were in, all reference to the underfly options was removed from the APFA website). Only info now is vote by base. This is the one that passed, and when those who voted for it see the actual results, there will be much weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. The restrictions that were eased will allow the company to schedule AA flight attendants very much like American Eagle flight attendant. 5-7 legs a day, 14+ hour duty days, minimum layover time.
Option III: This would have changed sick leave provisions. Currently if a flight attendant calls in sick for a scheduled trip, if the trip is a 3-day trip worth 15.5 hours, the flight attendant is paid for 15.5 flight hours and that amount is deducted from the f/a's sick bank. The change would have paid the flight attendant a flat 4 hours of flight pay/day for sick time. In the case above, the f/a would be paid 12 hours of flight pay--3 days times 4 hr/day.
Now, aren't you sorry you asked?
Option II: This option eased the restrictions on what is a "legal" sequence. For instance, the total duty day length from 1st sign-in of the day to last arrival; the total amount of actual flying time was increased (I'm not sure about the exact figures--as soon as the votes were in, all reference to the underfly options was removed from the APFA website). Only info now is vote by base. This is the one that passed, and when those who voted for it see the actual results, there will be much weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. The restrictions that were eased will allow the company to schedule AA flight attendants very much like American Eagle flight attendant. 5-7 legs a day, 14+ hour duty days, minimum layover time.
Option III: This would have changed sick leave provisions. Currently if a flight attendant calls in sick for a scheduled trip, if the trip is a 3-day trip worth 15.5 hours, the flight attendant is paid for 15.5 flight hours and that amount is deducted from the f/a's sick bank. The change would have paid the flight attendant a flat 4 hours of flight pay/day for sick time. In the case above, the f/a would be paid 12 hours of flight pay--3 days times 4 hr/day.
Now, aren't you sorry you asked?
TWAnr
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
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On 7/12/2003 12
32 PM and 12:51:47 PM MiAAmi wrote:
Even with the 200 or so positions lost the company must still offer leaves. I really doubt that there will be any furloughs in the end with this option.
As a high time flyer I would like to thank everyone who voted for option 2.
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Considering that the latest offering of leaves and partnership flying only went into effect in the beginning of July, it is safe to assume that just about everyone who considered taking a leave already has done so.On 7/12/2003 12
32 PM and 12:51:47 PM MiAAmi wrote:Even with the 200 or so positions lost the company must still offer leaves. I really doubt that there will be any furloughs in the end with this option.
As a high time flyer I would like to thank everyone who voted for option 2.
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Yes, further furloughs may be mitigated by offering bid leaves and awarding more PTO requests. However, even if no additional flight attendants are laid off as a result of this vote, this rule change will delay the recall of those who are presently on furlough status. Per the CBA and the RA, when additional flight attendants are needed to properly staff the operation, the company must first cancel partnership flying and overage leaves. Only after those measures are taken, are furloughed individuals called back to work.
Congratulations APFA members, you have just voted to keep an additional 208 of your colleagues unemployed longer, possibly never to be recalled.
APFA, a union that takes the definition of selfishness to new heights.
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On 7/12/2003 2:59:52 PM TWAnr wrote:
Congratulations APFA members, you have just voted to keep an additional 208 of your colleagues unemployed longer, possibly never to be recalled.
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On 7/12/2003 2:59:52 PM TWAnr wrote:
Congratulations APFA members, you have just voted to keep an additional 208 of your colleagues unemployed longer, possibly never to be recalled.
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If furloughed I would want a job WORTH coming back to. Thats what the remaining membership is trying to maintain, a profession worth coming back to. TWAnr, if your wife is to be recalled wouldn''t she rather come back to a job that you get paid your schedule?
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On 7/13/2003 922 PM FA Mikey wrote:
I doubt we will see additional furloughs. They was a further seniority ajustment. We lost another 200 flight attendants off the top. This option II was planning for just over 200 furloughs
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That is what I thought as well, but after reading the APFA BB, it seems those who transferred to STL were taken out of the AA system. We kept our old annual seniority number (the second line of the HI8) just a change in our AA seniority number.On 7/13/2003 9
22 PM FA Mikey wrote: I doubt we will see additional furloughs. They was a further seniority ajustment. We lost another 200 flight attendants off the top. This option II was planning for just over 200 furloughs
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Either way, given the operational shortage we seem to be experienceing, I feel we may not see any furloughs as we seem to be short flight attendants as it is.
Just my .02
