Ummm, Don't Look Now

[Bear96]

. . . . Or they strike the first flights in from the outstations in the morning, leaving DC-9s and A320s stranded in Fargo, Tampa and Albuquerque. Knock the first flight of the day an hour off and you've just started a domino effect that might not end until that aircraft lands at its RON location... if it's scheduled on a red-eye, not even then!

That will only work if the pilots help out and refuse to fly the equivalent of "struck work" (i.e., don't cross any picket lines). Otherwise NW will just tell them to fly empty back to the hubs to have the equipment in place to support the rest of the day's schedule.

So have the pilots said whether they will respect the picket lines? Or are they just going to offer "moral support," but if push comes to shove, they'll fly empty planes around?

On a different topic, I agree with that scab guy about the wisdom in giving the 15-days notice. The time for that was 15 days ago. AFA should have made it clear that the moment NW imposes the contract that was overwhelmingly rejected by the F/As is the moment they begin self-help in whatever form they see fit. As Jamake said, they shouldn't work for one minute under an imposed contract.

 

[robbedagain]

PTO, you should know that if they aint got enough scab excrement to fix the old junker planes, how are they going to have enough excrement to handle the pax in a "normal" weekly emergency landing or worse yet a hard crash landing? Too bad you dont know because you "quit" SCAB AIR or at least you say you quit. not so sure that is true

 

[Don Smith]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='402151' date='Aug 1 2006, 02:05 AM']I think someone got their tires slashed in the parking lot by some STRIKING AMFA members! LOL! [/quote]
If it was only that easy to get rid of a SCAB

 

[Don Smith]

... I know you guys will throw up the current emergency landings as proof of failure but I do find it strange that as the Original Scabs continue to leave and are replaced with AMFA Scabs the frequency of emergency landings increases....

The AMFA Boys think they are gaining ground as Original Scabs continue to leave. Look how giddy they are as they hear about another one leaving. If the numbers drop to low for NWA to operate all NWA has to do is pick up a phone and re-open the contract. The contractors will return quicker than they left. The AMFA Boys are giddy over an illusion. I hope the F/A's don't fall into the same trap. Fight to protect your job but do not do it with the attitude that you cannot be replaced.

I told you SCAB that the reason nwa is having trouble is that all of the SCABS that crossed were the mechanics that wouldn't (or more like couldn't) get another job. These weren't the cream of the crop at nwa. They were the bottom feeders that the union had to keep "saving" when they screwed up. Now they are teaching the replacement "right our of school" mechanics (according to...hmmmmm who said that...ah yes, it was PTO). They don't know how to close up a 747 after a 1/4 A check. And you say these morons are the future of the majors...or, "SCABS, destined for the majors". I think a dose of reality is coming shortly. If all nwa had to do was "pick up the phone", then why aren't they??? The only communication I received from nwa was a threat, in writing to return to work "or else". Since I didn't sign up on their little SCAB waiting list they aren't calling me with a lolli-pop and cotton candy offers. Maybe I should have said SUCKERS instead of lolli-pops.

 

[Don Smith]

....The only thing AMFA members are giddy about is the slow decline of Scab Air and the exodus of scabs as the ship sinks. Now with another crisis on the horizon, it should be fun to watch Scab Air's management thugs sink into the tar pit if the AFA carries out its plans for a job action....
You know nothing of the airline business and how it runs 'Cods. All you did was allow yourself to be herded in with empty promises as a scab pawn, and then you only lasted a year. Stop giving advice, because you have not a clue of WTF your talking about. :angry: :unsure: h34r: :blink:

I won't paste the whole post you made but it was RIGHT ON! . I think you must have pushed all of PTO's buttons at once. Don't think I've ever seen him (her?) so agitated . Good job Hackman. It may have taken a year for the F/A group to come around but I think they realize the error they made in not walking with us a year ago. If it weren't for the losers who crossed and the IAM rampers doing struck work (except for a few honorable ones..thanks Kev!) our strike would had been over awhile back. Now the AFA hopefully will continue to take up the fight so we can get this company back to profitability. Not on the backs of SCABS but with the support of a unionized force that wants to see them succeed. (Of course Steenland and his cronies will have to go!)

 

[Don Smith]

That will only work if the pilots help out and refuse to fly the equivalent of "struck work" (i.e., don't cross any picket lines). Otherwise NW will just tell them to fly empty back to the hubs to have the equipment in place to support the rest of the day's schedule.

Fly it empty or don't fly it doesen't make a difference. If a full flight out of LAS or PHX doesn't depart in the AM with it's full load of passengers then the wave travels throughout the system that that particular flight touches.

 

[FA Mikey]

Fly it empty or don't fly it doesen't make a difference. If a full flight out of LAS or PHX doesn't depart in the AM with it's full load of passengers then the wave travels throughout the system that that particular flight touches.

It makes a huge difference. One single day with No passengers VS. making 1000 pax miss flights. The traveling public can easily understand when everyone walks off. You lose public support, and risk alienation when you play sporadic games.

CHAOS was made because they fear lack membership support. APFA had a great idea. Make it a set time not indefinite. It limits the ability to replace and makes financially viable for all to participate.

Don't force only a fraction of your people to decide to support or scab. I want to know right off who is with and who is not.

 

[FCYTravis]

There is on thing to be said about giving the company the 15 days notice. Without doing a thing more then giving notice, cash coming in will dropoff markedly. People won't buy tickets for travel after the 14th of August. The results will likely be apparent as early as 8/1/06.

Exactly. Look, back in 2002 Midwest Express folded after 30 days of CHAOS *threats* alone. AFA never even actually had to go as far as striking - but they bluffed so well that, according to the union, passenger counts dropped 20 to 25 percent - the airline announced its earnings were in the toilet and analysts started cutting YX's stock, citing the threats of CHAOS as a reason to steer clear.

A month into the fight, Midwest went back to the table and cut a new contract deal that was overwhelmingly approved by the FAs. Not one single CHAOS action ever took place.

People on FlyerTalk are already talking about booking refundable tickets and flying on other carriers. As I posted over there:

"Really, CHAOS is a brilliant tactic that beautifully preys on our human fear of uncertainty. In a traditional strike situation at least you know what you're going to get way ahead of time. But with CHAOS, you could get struck anytime, anywhere and for any reason - so you spend half of your trip wondering whether you're going to be the next victim and if so, whether you're going to get where you're going. It's like playing Russian roulette with your travel plans.

Would you want to book a ticket on an airline with that kind of sword hanging over your head on each and every departure? Brutal.

Is CHAOS a scare tactic? Certainly. But so is the management's claim that FA salaries will drive NWA out of business. If the latter is fair game, then so is the former."

 

[Borescope]

It limits the ability to replace and makes financially viable for all to participate.

It doesn't limit the ability to replace. If the company want to fire those individuals involved, they will. How hard is it to get a few hand fulls of FA's to replace them? There are plenty of management people to fill in. In the mean time the FA's that took place in the CHAOS are gone, without pay, and looking for a job with Wal-Mart. Don't think that the union is going to hire a laywer to help you get the job back.

 

[groundcontrol]

And a jolt back to reality by Borescope ??? !!! ???
Thoughts please?

 

[hp_fa]

People on FlyerTalk are already talking about booking refundable tickets and flying on other carriers. As I posted over there:

"Really, CHAOS is a brilliant tactic that beautifully preys on our human fear of uncertainty. In a traditional strike situation at least you know what you're going to get way ahead of time. But with CHAOS, you could get struck anytime, anywhere and for any reason - so you spend half of your trip wondering whether you're going to be the next victim and if so, whether you're going to get where you're going. It's like playing Russian roulette with your travel plans.

Would you want to book a ticket on an airline with that kind of sword hanging over your head on each and every departure? Brutal.

Is CHAOS a scare tactic? Certainly. But so is the management's claim that FA salaries will drive NWA out of business. If the latter is fair game, then so is the former."

Absolutely the way I see it.

The only way to defeat the tactics of management is to play their game, with a few improvements.

I also expect that the attitude of most of the rest of the American public will be with the FA's after all the lying, cheating, profit-taking and pension dumping that our brilliant business leaders have been getting away with for years.

 

[FA Mikey]

It doesn't limit the ability to replace. If the company want to fire those individuals involved, they will. How hard is it to get a few hand fulls of FA's to replace them? There are plenty of management people to fill in. In the mean time the FA's that took place in the CHAOS are gone, without pay, and looking for a job with Wal-Mart. Don't think that the union is going to hire a laywer to help you get the job back.

Is it harder to cover or replace 250 or 5000 people.CHAOS is easy to make up the difference flights and people.

No one in a legal strike can be fired. AFA, as any union would, will absolutely use all resources to protect its members form over zealous management.

 

[hp_fa]

It doesn't limit the ability to replace. If the company want to fire those individuals involved, they will. How hard is it to get a few hand fulls of FA's to replace them? There are plenty of management people to fill in. In the mean time the FA's that took place in the CHAOS are gone, without pay, and looking for a job with Wal-Mart. Don't think that the union is going to hire a laywer to help you get the job back.

Your analysis is flawed. What do you think will happen when a few FA's get replaced? How about the whole place shuts down. Oh, and do you think that the FAA will stand idle during this? Their roving inspectors and cabin inspectors will be all over NW like flies seeking manure.

BTW, AFA National already has attorneys for anyone who is replaced and I strongly suspect that AFL-CIO will be sending in all the support they can because they need a win and there is absolutely no better sceanrio for the AFL-CIO then the NWA situation.

 

[Stratocruiser]

What does CHAOS stand for? Oh yeah, something like

My
Cold
Homeless
A** is
Out on the
Street

 

[PHLfa88]

Here's some company email:

From: IFCREW - INFLIGHT CREW OPERATIONS
To:
Sent: 31JUL06 21:50 GMT
Subject: Failed Tentative Agreement
To: All Flight Attendants
From: Doug Steenland
Date: July 31, 2006
The Tentative Agreement reached between the AFA and NWA on July 17, 2006, has
failed to be ratified by a majority of flight attendants. Unfortunately,
circumstances now dictate that the Company reject the existing Flight
Attendant Agreement and impose the March 1, 2006, Tentative Agreement as
authorized by the Bankruptcy Court on June 30, 2006. This change becomes
effective today, July 31, 2006.

I wanted to provide you with some context for this rejection decision, and
also update you on what you can expect over the next several days.

First, this was a result that the Company hoped to avoid. Throughout the
negotiating process, first with the PFAA and then with the AFA, our goal
remained to reach a consensual agreement and thereby avoid rejection of the
contract. However, after two failed Tentative Agreements, it is clear that
there are no easy or quick ways to reach this goal and at the same time
achieve the total labor cost savings which NWA needs to successfully emerge
from bankruptcy. These surrounding circumstances, and the Court’s ruling, now
require implementation of the March 1st Tentative Agreement for the following
reasons.

After filing Chapter 11 in September 2005, the Company set specific labor cost
reduction targets for each employee group, including management. These labor
costs savings totaled $1.4 billon annually; the amount determined by the
Company, and agreed to by the Bankruptcy Court, to be a necessary part of a
viable five year business plan.

Management experienced two rounds of cuts, first in December 2004, and then in
December 2005, hitting the necessary target.

The Company also negotiated with each of its unions to achieve their targets
through voluntary agreements. In November 2005, it reached permanent ratified
agreements with ATSA, NAMA and TWU. As those agreements became effective on
November 16, 2005, the Company also implemented emergency temporary relief
measures with the IAM, ALPA and PFAA. The temporary relief, however, provides
only 60% of the necessary savings amount.

Negotiations continued into 2006, before, during and after trials in New York
City on the Company’s motions to reject its labor agreements. As of June 9,
ratified agreements had been reached with ALPA and the IAM which provide the
targeted savings. Those agreements, however, contain language that prevents
the Company from implementing the agreed-to savings until the necessary
savings targets have been achieved from all groups, including the flight
attendants.

The need to proceed with restructuring, and to realize the savings which have
already been delayed, means that the Company must now go forward with
unilateral imposition of the March 1 Tentative Agreement pursuant to the
Court’s order. Vice President – Inflight Services, Suzanne Boda, will provide
you with specific information regarding initial changes within a few hours.
The ALPA and IAM agreements will also be implemented today.

Some things will not change, however. Bidding will still be accomplished
through the use of seniority. Reductions in force, when necessary, will still
take place in reverse seniority order. Many other work rules will also remain
in place.

I regret that we were unable to resolve the required flight attendant savings
through a consensual agreement at this time. I know there is a great deal of
tension and uncertainty on the line. I have personally observed, however,
that the circumstances have not affected the level of service you provide to
our customers, and I thank each of you for your continued professionalism.
Although imposition is necessary now in order to secure the successful
restructuring of the airline, we will continue to make every effort to reach a
new agreement with your elected representatives as quickly as possible.

CHAOS!!!!