UA and CO seems a go

[Pi brat]

I can't see US merging with anyone but UA, as a whole, and that option seems to be dwindling. I also agree that anyone would probably screw AS up as it is a special case.

Parker has done somethings well, but he didn't finish this merger and those of us that had a hand in that will have to live with the outcome. We better hope that he is right that other airlines merging will help us all. We need to find some way to stop fighting each other and run the best airline possible that takes care of EVERY customer, because being a carrier of convenience and price may not be an option in the future.

If UA and CO do merge it will be interesting to see if the the Star decides we are worth keeping around. It seems that UA and US are always under cutting each others prices on domestic code share flights. I think that would get worse after a UA/CO merger.

 

[AstroLounge]

With everyone saying that US Airways will go down if Continental and United merge because US will just not be able to compete with "mega airlines" .... do you think this merger could get passed?


If this merger did pose a threat to US, US in my opinion should;

1.) Oppose the "mega carrier" merger deal
2.) Reiterate facts that it's anti competitive and United would control ~50% of both the Atlantic and Pacific.
3.) Reiterate the fact that this merger could mean that other airlines couldn't compete against a "mega carrier"
4.) Jump ship to One World


Basically, US should emphasize that Delta and United would be mega carriers that would force airlines out of business and highlight the dominance of United/Continental across the Pacific and Atlantic.

I'm sure Delta, American, and others wouldn't mind helping US's cause in stopping this merger.

Personally, I NEVER could figure why US even considered a tie up with United......yes the fleet types matched up but LITTLE else. Why put yourself in a position to drawdown PHL or Washington and welcome competition at stronghold airports that You built up. United's 'dirty maneuverings' to get Continental to STEP UP and be forced into a Merger SPEAKS for itself. If US were to remain in STAR (and I am not so sure of ANY Benefits to remain) then combining with JetBlue is an option but I really feel the best alternative is Leaving STAR Alliance, joining ONEWORLD and doing a codeshare with American. The LGA Terminal would be beneficial to AA as would the DCA operation. PHL ,CLT and PHX would also fill some wholes for AA but ONLY on a code share basis. AA and US do COMPLIMENT each other much more than a US/UAL combination ever could and most employees really didn't even consider the recent US/UAL manueverings as anything but NONSENSE. Continental's hand was FORCED into this EVIL Combination and I feel for the employees who will lose their Name, Brand and reputation in the process. (United isn't the airline it was of 20 years ago ). US hopefully is considering ALL its options and leaving STAR would be a Good FIRST STEP!

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

US and AS: I agree with the posters who say that US would screw it up. Unless AS were the controlling carrier. Now that might have some potential. But it would still be too small, IMHO.

US and B6: talk about apples and oranges! Other than being A320 operators, they have nothing in common.

US and AA: from a route standpoint makes some sense. But (as I stated before) AA's record in mergers gives one pause.

US and RAH/F9: still too damn small.


Not a lot of good choices, folks. Then again, US has been written off so many times. But a cat has just nine lives.

On the whole merger idea, I can't envision many US employees crying over the loss of the carrier's identity. A secure job is more important than the logo on the tail or wearing a Stan Herman uniform. US was once called on these pages "a motley collection of also ran regional carriers". Harsh, but with a kernel of truth. Not the same as the loss of NW's rich history in the DL merger.

(Just what ever happens, get rid of QIK/SHARES)

 

[redheadtempe33]

Will a UA/CO merger result in more code-share opportunities for US on flights that CO operates and vice-versa?

If UA is the surviving carrier, then yes, it would mean expanded code-sharing opportunities. Continental does fly to some places US and UA don't so it might help. I'm not sure how the finance side of code-sharing works though. If a person books a flight from LAX-JFK through US (but on UA metal), does US get any money for it?

 

[back2CLT]

I know someone explained what made a US-B6 merger difficult. I think it was a labor/scope issue when I suggested US operate B6 as a subsidy? Can someone re-state what the issue would be. To me, its a really clean merger, that combined with the Delta/US deal at DCA/LGA makes US the dominant east coast carrier, controlling Boston, Philly, DC, and being #3? in NY. It would also secures CLT as a legitamate southern Hub that B6 can't replicate on their own, and make US/B6 the dominant Florida carrier, which would damage AA significantly.


LH could kick in a lot of cash to make this deal work, because they are near their maximum legal investment in B6 for a foreien owner, they could more than double that investment given the merger would result in an airline twice the size. This is the best way for them to control a dominant US airline as UA-CO obviously wouldn't need or want their cash.

 

[US1YFARE]

United's 'dirty maneuverings' to get Continental to STEP UP and be forced into a Merger SPEAKS for itself.

Oh please. Even if you are correct that US was the stalking horse, you don't think Tempe knew what was going on? The fact that US came out admantly and said they were not interested in merging with UA seems to suggest that they did know and they have another plan. Parker isn't a moron. If they had no clue and spitefully rejected UA, I would be very concerned about the future of US.

 

[robbedagain]

As it seems now that the merger of CO and UA may be heading to the alter, I'd say that may be US would leave Star for OneWorld. But how long would US keep going as a stand alone is the biggie question

 

[767jetz]

LH could kick in a lot of cash to make this deal work, because they are near their maximum legal investment in B6 for a foreien owner, they could more than double that investment given the merger would result in an airline twice the size. This is the best way for them to control a dominant US airline as UA-CO obviously wouldn't need or want their cash.

I think you mistakenly overestimate LH's desire to "control" a US airline. Their investment in B6 was a strategic move when UA's path was less defined. They wanted to secure a stake in the JFK market (Terminals, landing slots, etc.) since there was no strong player for Star in NY. UA severely chopped JFK/LGA/EWR over the last 7 years. Now with UA having a huge EWR presence, there is little need for LH to invest further. Ties with UA and LH have been strong since the beginning and will only grow stronger now.

 

[AstroLounge]

Oh please. Even if you are correct that US was the stalking horse, you don't think Tempe knew what was going on? The fact that US came out admantly and said they were not interested in merging with UA seems to suggest that they did know and they have another plan. Parker isn't a moron. If they had no clue and spitefully rejected UA, I would be very concerned about the future of US.

Which is EXACTLY my point. More than likely Parker and The Board knew exactly what was going on and how it would PLAY OUT, but don't think for a minute that ANY of the employees even gave this MERGER (US/UA) any credibility. And what is laughable is all the REPORTED labor issues and discord that effects the New USAirways.........waaaaaaaaaaaay overblown, really a NON-ISSUE (the two sides of the operation have little if ANY contact with each other) and has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on the Passengers............it's None of Your Business quite frankly. It's the Union Mouthpieces and the Union Wanntabee's that Get on their SoapBoxes and act as the Town Crier. Most employees really don't even bother with the topic............they do the job they were hired for. The FratBoys allowed the problem to fester THIS LONG and they alone can RESOLVE the Issue. Outside Commentary from 'other' airline employees and/or analysts, along with fellow customers is nothing more than Your Two Cents Worth. And Two cent's will buy You SQUAT!

 

[767jetz]

I really feel the best alternative is Leaving STAR Alliance, joining ONEWORLD and doing a codeshare with American. The LGA Terminal would be beneficial to AA as would the DCA operation.

I agree that US joining One World would make sense and deepening code share ties with AA. However, any combination of US and AA would create problems in the shuttle market, resulting in probable downsizing in LGA and DCA. While probably a good long term solution for US as a company (and for US share holders), this would not bode well for US employees, considering AA's history of acquiring and then dismantling the competition, and stapling everyone who survives to the bottom. If I were a US employee I'd be very skeptical of getting too close to AA.

I'm not convinced that AA really needs to partner up with anyone to do well. They have a history of being #2 or even #3 and doing quite well. I've seen an analysis of market share and revenue of other airlines from the 2008 attempt to join UA and CO. It broke down the landscape by various markets and considered a DL/NW merger (which since happened) and a UA/CO merger. Interestingly, back then the new UA would be #2 to Latin America BEHIND AA, and #2 to Europe BEHIND a new DL. The Pacific would continue to be UA's best presence. While a combined UA/CO might be the largest airline in the world, DL is not far behind and AA still holds it's own as a not-so-distant 3rd. That's doesn't paint such a dire position for AA and they very well might decide to go it alone.

 

[bigbusboy]

Oh please. Even if you are correct that US was the stalking horse, you don't think Tempe knew what was going on? The fact that US came out admantly and said they were not interested in merging with UA seems to suggest that they did know and they have another plan. Parker isn't a moron. If they had no clue and spitefully rejected UA, I would be very concerned about the future of US.

Your post just made me think of something. Despite all of Parkers' faults, you're correct in saying "Parker isn't a moron." It could very well be Parker was negotiating for some divestitures that will result from a UA/CO merger instead of a full-blown merger with UA. This whole saga could end up after all being some sort of "three-way" between UA/US/CO. Question: What routes, fleets, slots, gates or other assets might UA/CO want to sell or the DOJ require to be sold for a merger to be approved? This could be the real plan. I'll start: With both ORD and IAH as fortress hubs, DEN seems to become less of a necessity.

 

[Pi brat]

Your post just made me think of something. Despite all of Parkers' faults, you're correct in saying "Parker isn't a moron." It could very well be Parker was negotiating for some divestitures that will result from a UA/CO merger instead of a full-blown merger with UA. This whole saga could end up after all being some sort of "three-way" between UA/US/CO. Question: What routes, fleets, slots, gates or other assets might UA/CO want to sell or the DOJ require to be sold for a merger to be approved? This could be the real plan. I'll start: With both ORD and IAH as fortress hubs, DEN seems to become less of a necessity.

I doubt they will be required to divest anything as they won't control the Washington area and that seems to be the only market that counts! Did DL/NW have to divest anything? I think Parker should push for them to divest some pacific restricted routes since DL and UA will be dominate there.

 

[US1YFARE]

I think Parker should push for them to divest some pacific restricted routes since DL and UA will be dominate there.

divest to which carrier? Is US going to fly the routes with an E190?

 

[ClueByFour]

I know someone explained what made a US-B6 merger difficult. I think it was a labor/scope issue when I suggested US operate B6 as a subsidy? Can someone re-state what the issue would be. To me, its a really clean merger, that combined with the Delta/US deal at DCA/LGA makes US the dominant east coast carrier, controlling Boston, Philly, DC, and being #3? in NY. It would also secures CLT as a legitamate southern Hub that B6 can't replicate on their own, and make US/B6 the dominant Florida carrier, which would damage AA significantly.

B6 does not want a "southern hub." And if they did, they'd have one already. They do profitable point to point out of either large markets and/or huge leisure markets (and between the two). CLT is neither.

I'm not quite sure how you think US/B6 would damage AA--AA is not interested in carrying traffic from NY to Florida. They are interested in carrying premium traffic specifically to MIA, and from there to points in central/south America and the Caribbean. Neither US nor B6 (or a combination) would be any threat to AA's premium flying out of MIA.

And let's say this wild supposition was true--AA re-opens the RDU hub just to put the screws to US at CLT. Game. Set. Match. Remember how long the FLL experiment lasted after AA responded?

 

[FWAAA]

divest to which carrier? Is US going to fly the routes with an E190?

There are a number of 747-400s coming on the market as JAL announced the other day that it will park its entire fleet of 744s within a year. Perhaps US could acquire those 747s.