U To Shut Down?

[Rico]

Hello, where did I say most profitable...?

I SAID most PROBABLE.(to survive intact) Care to argue about that that instead of misquoting me...?

Yes, I said MDA is a profitable enterprise, but not the most profitable, just profitable. But IT IS the most likely part of US Airways to remain intact and move on IF Airways folds.

Geeze, You guys are slow.


The point is that there is more of a market on the outside for what I do, and what I do it in, rather than what you do, and what do it in ---> Thus the conclusion that MDA has a better chance of survival intact than reamining parts of the Company.

Not meant to be uncool, just an honest observation.

Everything could "go away" including MDA, yet defunct Airlines have a strange way of popping up again in new or different forms, and in our case, the most PROBABLE is for MDA to keep flying.

Unlike your strange desire to see this entire place erased, I (and the other people who would like to continue to work here) want to hold onto some optimism, that despite the massive amount of entitlistic fervor and emotionalism that runs amok on here...

That there can still be a future for this company

(rather than joining with those who have given up, or remain while trying to leech whatever they can off of this place for as long as possible).

Smartest thing to do is save what we already have, and make it work. Senarios where all that remains is a small spin off of 20-30 Small jets should be the last thing we all want.

<shakes head at the "collapse cheerleaders">

Peace B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

READ before responding. I said Probable, not profitable.. Way to pay attention. 🙄

[post="203135"][/post]​

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

By the way, the 3rd quarter report shows that MDA was not profitable. One only has to wonder what the loss would have been if MDA was charged for all expenses associated with it's operation....

Jim

 

[Rico]

Actually, it was several posts back and still there when I posted the above.

Thinking that someone will come along, buy MDA lock, stock, and barrel, and start operations the next day is pure fantasy - it just doesn't work that way. Too many hoops to jump through.

If that someone doesn't already run an airline (hence need an operating certificate), they have to go through the process of getting all the approvals.

If they already operate an airline but not the Emb-170, the last thing they need is another ops certificate without the Emb-170, and they already have people who would want to fly the "newest and biggest" RJ.

Finally, if they already operate an airline with the Emb-170 on the certificate, they have employees who want to fly the "newest and biggest" RJ. Like my nephew who's in 170 training now at Chataugua - I'm pretty sure that he and those like him would not look favorably on "johnny come lately's" moving in front of them.

But it makes for a good fantasy.....

Jim

[post="203165"][/post]​

How is it so out of the reach of reality that IF the remaining unions pull a "Charlie B" and drive this place over the edge, that the Mainline will be downsized to nothing, and all that remains on the Certificate is MDA,

Our labor agreements are already in place, Separate Organization in place, Separate List in place, and so on...

All they have to do is park all of the mainline aircraft, and then all that remains is MDA... YHow stupid will that be if the remaining unions force that to occur? Wouldn't it be much better for EVERYONE if we keep this place afloat instead?

But do not discount my observation so qiuickly

You do remember that they still have the ability to reject all of those leases at mainline, right...?

And you do remember that no displacement rights are in place for Midatlantic, right...?

How exactly is this so called "fantasy" really such a hassle if the company is left with no other option...? Would it not involve fewer hoops to jump through to just move on with the MDA agreements rather than further deal with the unions at a certain point>

But lets be real now, enough of this "senario talk"

IMO the more likely situation is that the remaining unions will give in (despite the tough talk), and the organization will move forward as a whole, but I have (and I would assume the powers that be have) not totally discounted one or more unions putting their membership out of work> It is just more likely that Talk aside, the same ol same ol will occur and US Airways can get back to business

 

[BoeingBoy]

Rico, Rico, Rico.....

If mainline shrinks down to nothing, as you say, MDA would be the highest cost airline in the world by far. Remember those little things called loans, backed by the ATSB? They don't go away. Do you really think those 22 or so Emb-170 can generate enough revenue to pay that back? If so, you can try to convince the creditors, but good luck.

On the other hand, liquidation would wipe the slate clean. Of course, that would include MDA. Sure someone (or some other carrier) could pick up certain pieces - like the Emb-170's - from the creditors. But assuming that such a thing both would happen and that they'd embrace all the existing personnel and allow them to remain in their positions is wishful thinking at this point.

Jim

Jim

 

[Rico]

Jim.

You make it sound like this place is not been set up to the gills as collateral...

ATSB Loans can still be paid off by cash on hand, that is why the ATSB has allowed us to continue still. And that is why thresholds have been set to allow us to remain open ---> as long as in a liquidation the remaining loans can be paid.

From there, it is obvious that an outside investor or buyer would have to finance acquisition of MDA, but why is that so hard to fathom...? Liquidation would release MDA from any burdens that Airways had held...

Spin off the certificate with assets (like DCA slots), and go forward with what is MDA and shed the rest. As for the rest, it would not take that much further outside investment to gain use of slots/hangers/equipment. From that point then you have a functioning carrier.

Like I pointed out before, this is just speculation, neither your opinion or mine means jack. But Aircraft being added in BK tend to favor my theory.

And like I have pointed out, IF Airways goes under we all feel the pain, Thus my endless "crusade" to talk down the naysayers and unionistia each with an agenda that does not benifit the whole.

Mine is out front for all to see, IF Airways survives, I, and almost everyone else here will gain from such. So future senario talk aside... Lets make THIS work.

 

[700UW]

Rico,

Hate to tell you but US is all ready below in cash on hand for the value of the loan.

 

[PITbull]

ALG certificate = still active, good to go baby... 😀

Oppps, you did not know that they have kept ALG alive, and flying still..., And do not plan to transfer the flying off of that certificate until 2005 eh...? Guess ou were not paying attention with the whole DCAir/Potomac affair a few years back, were you...
Back to the topic.

Once again, MDA is the most probable part of US Airways to remain intact IF US Airways folds.

And once again, lets's do what needs to be done, so that MDA is not the only part of US Airways that survives

Do not let your entitlism agenda get in the way of that.

[post="203119"][/post]​

The shuttle is most profitable; not MAA.

 

[BoeingBoy]

ATSB Loans can still be paid off by cash on hand, that is why the ATSB has allowed us to continue still. And that is why thresholds have been set to allow us to remain open ---> as long as in a liquidation the remaining loans can be paid.

From there, it is obvious that an outside investor or buyer would have to finance acquisition of MDA, but why is that so hard to fathom...? Liquidation would release MDA from any burdens that Airways had held...

Spin off the certificate with assets (like DCA slots), and go forward with what is MDA and shed the rest. As for the rest, it would not take that much further outside investment to gain use of slots/hangers/equipment. From that point then you have a functioning carrier.

[post="203185"][/post]​

Well, you first have to decide which plan you're hoping for....

On one hand you talk about shedding mainline and keeping MDA as a "profitable" enterprise. That doesn't involve liquidation, hence the loans, etc are in place. If you use available cash to pay off all the loans (and sell some assets since the cash on hand won't cover the ATSB-backed loan - that's what results from the ATSB letting us use some of the cash collateral), an investor might be interested. But why not pick up the assets desired from liquidation, then. After all, without liquidation any remaining employee contracts (like MDA's) would have to be assumed, and once the seniority level rises they're not so low cost (as you well know with your W/O longevity).

On the other hand, you talk up the liquidation option. Only problem is that in that scenerio any current MDA employee would be unemployed - no job to follow since the jobs disappeared with Chapter 7.

As far as "Let's make this work", that's up to management. As they said in the motion to abrogate contracts, there's little they can do about non-labor costs. That means we'll be non-competitive with the LCC's. As others have said, with zero labor expense our costs would be as high (or higher) as the average LCC. And that's just mainline. The Express operation has higher costs still, including MDA.

Jim

 

[ClueByFour]

Oh, ok, so you are saying that it would make more sense to take a 20-30+ Aircraft fleet, let it sit around while you spend the large amount of money to train the 300 some-odd pilots, each taking 1.5-3 months to get online.., and then open bases, also hire additional Mechanics, Flight Attendants and Dispatchers and possibly get your operation up and running in record time without major (read = expensive) issues arising as a result...?

[post="203112"][/post]​

No, they will go to whichever division of Wexford gets more traction with the bird first. The best you will get is a staple job at the bottom of their list, but I suspect that's optimistic.

Nobody else wants the baggage. Nobody else is beating down the door to take those -170s off Brazil's hands. Don't kid yourself. Guys at TWA thought the same way.

 

[BostonTerrier]

By the way, the 3rd quarter report shows that MDA was not profitable. One only has to wonder what the loss would have been if MDA was charged for all expenses associated with it's operation....

Jim

[post="203174"][/post]​

Really?

USA320Pilot said MANY times that once MAA began it would be INSTANTLY profitable.

Jim, are you sure??? 320 said so.

:huh:

 

[Rico]

Well, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree Jim, nothing new there. 😉

I just do not think it is that big of a deal if things are headed south for someone to come in and:

1. Buy the Airways certificate and rights to the name, not the company.
2, Buy the current E-170's, add others, and add E-190's later
3. Buy all the commuter Slots at DCA and LGA, and whatever else u want
4. Utilize the labor agreements, people, and organization already in place
5. Retain the UA code share deal on everything, and start fresh.

I would assume that the remainder of US Airways would then just Liquidate soon thereafter in Chp 7, with the creditors payed off with what remains, and by the sale of MDA and whatever else.

Hey, the Eastern Shuttlle was the only intact part of EAL that survived intact after EAL collapsed, why is it so illogical that the same thing could happen again from the very same airports...?

Oh, BTW Jimi, you are mistaken about the cost of the MDA agreements. Even factoring in the limited number of W/O pilots that retain longevity, the pay scale/rules are still below that of other 70 seat operators. What ALPA and AFA agreed to (and the IAM lost in arbitration) is cheap enough to more than make up for a handful of Pilots able to reach the meager TOS. Everyone else (pilots and otherwise) will have basically newhire, or 2nd yr. pay.

I know that you still think it is a far fetched notion, but realize that MDA has been kept in a ready state to be separated since it was created. That is a fact, can you explain why that is the case...?

Hey, just answering the topic question, and this is pure speculation, but it does make you think.

Like I said, It is FAR smarter for everyone to work out what needs to be worked out, and have the entire company move forward rather than possibly just a small part. This is just my guess at answering the question posed by the creator of this thread, NOT what I want to see happen.

Peace B)

 

[700UW]

Rico in Black, my replies are in red.

Buy the current E-170's, add others, and add E-190's later

Only 7 E-170s are owned the remaining are leased

3. Buy all the commuter Slots at DCA and LGA, and whatever else u want.

Slots are all collateralized to the ATSB loan, the ATSB would own the slots and they would decided on how to sell them and to whom for the most value with approval with the Port Authority.

4. Utilize the labor agreements, people, and organization already in place.

Upon a chapter 7 filing there are no people or labor agreements.

5. Retain the UA code share deal on everything, and start fresh.

No US Airways, No Codeshare

I would assume that the remainder of US Airways would then just Liquidate soon thereafter in Chp 7, with the creditors payed off with what remains, and by the sale of MDA and whatever else.

You can't do partial liquidations, it is either Chapter 11 with asset sales and there are no assets owned to sell or Chapter 7 liquidation.

Hey, the Eastern Shuttle was the only intact part of EAL that survived intact after EAL collapsed, why is it so illogical that the same thing could happen again from the very same airports...?

The Eastern Shuttle did not survive Eastern it was sold off before eastern went Chapter 7. It was sold to Trump who operated it as the Trump Shuttle, he defaulted and Citibank took it over and then signed an agreement with US Airways to operate it and with an option to buy and as we know US Airways bought it.

Oh, BTW Jimi, you are mistaken about the cost of the MDA agreements. Even factoring in the limited number of W/O pilots that retain longevity, the pay scale/rules are still below that of other 70 seat operators. What ALPA and AFA agreed to (and the IAM lost in arbitration) is cheap enough to more than make up for a handful of Pilots able to reach the meager TOS. Everyone else (pilots and otherwise) will have basically newhire, or 2nd yr. pay.

The IAM never lost an arbitration in regard to MidAtlantic, the initial agreement was decided by an arbiter it was not a typical win-lose arbitration. Even though the contract terms favored the company's position.