TWU.....Transparency Now on Equity Distribution!

[HMK]

So when we got our first distribution in December it was 52% of WHAT????
Since they said it was 52% then what is the formula to figure out the 52% or the entire amount? Is it that frigging complicated? What is the TWU hiding from us? They know the formula since they already distributed 52% of our equity. Why is it so difficult for the TWU to disclose the numbers?
 
The stock price in the assumption (I hate that word) was $14.50 a share.
The assumption of what AA is or was worth is 11-12 billion dollars.
AA came out of BK valued at $17 billion and a stock price of $22.55.
TWU said it was lower on both assumptions. So the TWU got it wrong again.
This just shows that no union today should handle financial payouts or pensions for its members. This is beginning to turn out to be criminal. TWU better come clean because I see a class action lawsuit to force them to do so legally.

This is exactly why I started this thread.
Garry Drummond responds by telling us WE got the formula wrong and WE have the wrong data to calculate our distributions so far...
Why won't he and the rest of TWU Intl give us the information we need to be able to fact check what we have received so far? If WE are wrong, and the TWU is right, then show us the numbers and prove it to us!
If they plan to give us this information after the 120 days of the intial distribution, then the TWU will do backwards math to show us how they determined what WE received!
We should have had this information prior to the initial distribution!

 

[NYer]

So the TWU is getting a dollar amount considered lost value, and the stock is to make up for this lost value. Why do I not know the dollar amount I should recieve to satisfy my portion of the lost value. I understand each individual has a different items to plug into a formula, seniority for example.Then each work group has different items to plug into their formula like M&R and the 757 deal. If I knew how much value I was to recieve, I could figure how many shares based on whatever price ,or average of multiple days price the stock is at that it would take to reach that dollar amount. Of course the higher the stock the less shares it takes to get me to that amount. Perhaps I'm more confused now than I was at the beginning of this thread.

 
You're pretty much on the right path. The challenge is to try and figure out what the prices will be moving forward and how many shares the old equity holders end up taking from the unsecured pool of shares.
 
The amount to go to the TWU or any other creditor starts with the value lost on the CBA and other claims in the BK, and for the TWU it is around $330M , with interest added to that.
 
It seems the number set aside in the examples given during the Roadshow is a good reference for a neighborhood of value we are to receive. Since there are a few unknowns involved in the distribution, we won't be able to do an accurate reconciliation until after the 120 days pass and we have all the concrete numbers to plug into the formulas.

 

[1AA]

So why did the APA and APFA disclose their numbers to figure out their distribution?
Is their a different formula used just for the TWU members?

 

[NYer]

So when we got our first distribution in December it was 52% of WHAT????
Since they said it was 52% then what is the formula to figure out the 52% or the entire amount? Is it that frigging complicated? What is the TWU hiding from us? They know the formula since they already distributed 52% of our equity. Why is it so difficult for the TWU to disclose the numbers?
 
The stock price in the assumption (I hate that word) was $14.50 a share.
The assumption of what AA is or was worth is 11-12 billion dollars.
AA came out of BK valued at $17 billion and a stock price of $22.55.
TWU said it was lower on both assumptions. So the TWU got it wrong again.
This just shows that no union today should handle financial payouts or pensions for its members. This is beginning to turn out to be criminal. TWU better come clean because I see a class action lawsuit to force them to do so legally.

 
The "assumption" were not triggered by the TWU, it was used by the Creditors Committee to try and establish a percentage for everyone to receive in Equity. At the time of the Roadshows, the share price for US Airways was around $14.50. At the time of distribution, the price of the last day of trading for US Airways was $22.55. That is where those numbers came from, not exactly pulled out of a hat.
 
And you are correct, the TWU shouldn't be the sole party in trying to figure out how this works. That is the reason they hired the Labor Bureau who was involved in every airline BK over the past decade (at least). The percentage and methodology of distribution to the TWU was made by the Creditors Committee and the old equity holders. (the distribution formula for the members was created by the experts involved (financial and legal) and with input from the Equity Committee.
 
Where did the 52% come from? We know the neighborhood of how much value we should receive in order to reach a "full recovery" under the definition of the BK process ($330M, plus some interest). If the share price would stay at a constant $22.55 throughout the 120 day period, we would have received 52% of the total on Dec.9th.
 
However, we know that the price will not remain constant therefore that 52% is not an accurate depiction of how many shares we can expect in the future. If the share price continues to rise it is likely we will receive substantially less shares, although roughly the same value.

 

[NYer]

So why did the APA and APFA disclose their numbers to figure out their distribution?
Is their a different formula used just for the TWU members?

 
Of course there is. The TWU has 7 different groups, with 7 different CBA's with each group giving up a different percentage of value which equaled the whole of 17% for the TWU. Within the 7 groups there are a myriad of title groups and for the Fleet side they had to take into consideration the status of FT and PT. As it stands, the M&R group will end up getting more than 50% of the total shares in order to reach the value of their losses. The Fleet group comes in at around 37% of the whole.
 
The APFA and APA are one group with one CBA each. The APA, the APFA and the TWU each have a different internal process and formula to distribute the shares they receive from the negotiated percentages agreed to by the Creditors' Committee.

 

[AANOTOK]

So the way the Equity committee, Creditors committee, Labor Bureau set it up is even though the stock has had a $7 run since my Dec.9 distribution, I do not benefit one iota. I cannot make money. If I'm making money with today's shares (i.e $7 a share increase), I'm penalized on my future shares. Correct??

 

[AANOTOK]

Also, it was my understanding from the roadshow that the original reason all shares were not distributed at once (where I would have benefited) was because they did not want everyone to sell their stock immediately for fear of the stock tanking. Now it has so many other factors added in, and and none of them benefit the members. Surprise!!

 

[NYer]

So the way the Equity committee, Creditors committee, Labor Bureau set it up is even though the stock has had a $7 run since my Dec.9 distribution, I do not benefit one iota. I cannot make money. If I'm making money with today's shares (i.e $7 a share increase), I'm penalized on my future shares. Correct??

 
That is mostly an act of the BK process and the old equity holders. The distribution of equity is meant to try and repay some of the losses incurred in a bankruptcy. Since this BK was devoid of Debtor in Possession (DIP) financing, the value created by the BK and the merger has allowed all creditors to be repaid in full satisfaction of their LOSSES incurred during the period within the BK (Nov. 29 2011 to Dec. 9th, 2013). In an unprecedented occurrence, the old equity holders (who are usually wiped out) is the group that stands to PROFIT from the rise in share price. They are guaranteed at 3.5% of the shares available to the "stakeholders," with the ability to receive a much higher percentage of the shares. That is a product of math and the ability of creditors being able to receive their lost value in less shares that are worth more.
 
The opposite would hold true in the event the shares would lose value in that the creditors would receive more shares in order to make up their lost value.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
That is mostly an act of the BK process and the old equity holders. The distribution of equity is meant to try and repay some of the losses incurred in a bankruptcy. Since this BK was devoid of Debtor in Possession (DIP) financing, the value created by the BK and the merger has allowed all creditors to be repaid in full satisfaction of their LOSSES incurred during the period within the BK (Nov. 29 2011 to Dec. 9th, 2013). In an unprecedented occurrence, the old equity holders (who are usually wiped out) is the group that stands to PROFIT from the rise in share price. They are guaranteed at 3.5% of the shares available to the "stakeholders," with the ability to receive a much higher percentage of the shares. That is a product of math and the ability of creditors being able to receive their lost value in less shares that are worth more.
 
The opposite would hold true in the event the shares would lose value in that the creditors would receive more shares in order to make up their lost value.

Nyer...I'm not asking about anyone else, just the TWU members. Stop the mumbo jumbo and just simply answer the question I presented to you. Here it is again.
 
"So the way the Equity committee, Creditors committee, Labor Bureau set it up is even though the stock has had a $7 run since my Dec.9 distribution, I do not benefit one iota. I cannot make money. If I'm making money with today's shares (i.e $7 a share increase), I'm penalized on my future shares. Correct??"

 

[HMK]

NYer,
 
The simple basic question remains....what are the numbers used to calculate what WE members have already received since
Dec. 9? 
It does not matter if we are 1 majority group or broken up into 7 groups. Numbers were inputed into a formula, that answer gave us an amount of dollars/shares that we see in our epays and on the compushare website. Just give us the info we ask for....
 
Why is this an issue??? 

 

[NYer]

Nyer...I'm not asking about anyone else, just the TWU members. Stop the mumbo jumbo and just simply answer the question I presented to you. Here it is again.
 
"So the way the Equity committee, Creditors committee, Labor Bureau set it up is even though the stock has had a $7 run since my Dec.9 distribution, I do not benefit one iota. I cannot make money. If I'm making money with today's shares (i.e $7 a share increase), I'm penalized on my future shares. Correct??"

 
Your premise about using the shares received from this process is wrong. The group that is holding back the ability to receive more value is the old equity holders since they are the only "stakeholder" that will profit from this distribution.
 
Your assessment that the Equity Committee, the Creditors Committee and the Labor Bureau is the reason you believe you're being penalized is wrong. Other groups, like the APA and APFA, not to mention all the other unsecured creditors are being treated exactly the same. The TWU Equity Committee and the Labor Bureau did not participate with any other group, so your assessment is incorrect.
 
Once again, this process is meant to make each unsecured creditor receive up to a 100% recovery of their losses (with interest), not a profit above those losses. That profit goes to the old equity shareholders.

 

[NYer]

NYer,
 
The simple basic question remains....what are the numbers used to calculate what WE members have already received since
Dec. 9? 
It does not matter if we are 1 majority group or broken up into 7 groups. Numbers were inputed into a formula, that answer gave us an amount of dollars/shares that we see in our epays and on the compushare website. Just give us the info we ask for....
 
Why is this an issue??? 

 
None of us have that number and it may be, as shown in the APA Arbitration decision, that the airline has made the unions sign a non-disclosure statement for wage related information. That would be up to the TWU to let us know why those numbers haven't been released.

 

[Tex-Mech]

HMK
 
Looked into that formula again and compared it to the powerpoint presentation and documents from the roadshow on 514's site.  Can you or whoever came up with this formula give us a reason that you left off half of the data that was on the presentation, or the disclaimer on the document that said the "higher the trading price the fewer the shares allocated to the unsecured creditors pool including labor"?
 
You included the 23 million shares estimate, but left out the part that said that the example was at $14.50 a share.
 
You also left out the part that showed an award at $16,600 for an AMT
 
Finally, if you would of put the 23 million shares into your calculator at $14.50 a share, you would of come up with $333 million of value
 
Doing that would have saved all of us a whole lot of time and 11 pages on this forum.
 
I am just thankful that I only lost a stamp and an hour of time.  Some of the guys here paid for return receipt requested, and they are not happy for being duped by this formula.
 
 

 

[AANYER]

NYer,
 
So the initial distribution counts against my overall claim, in that as the value of my initial shares received appreciate, I may not receive any additional shares.  More importantly,  my initial distribution may and can satisfy that total claim.  For example, If the shares rise and stay above $43 for a pretreated period, we potentially will not receive any more distributions.  Meaning the initial distribution was sufficient. Are the above statements correct?

 

[Vortilon]

So the way the Equity committee, Creditors committee, Labor Bureau set it up is even though the stock has had a $7 run since my Dec.9 distribution, I do not benefit one iota. I cannot make money. If I'm making money with today's shares (i.e $7 a share increase), I'm penalized on my future shares. Correct??

 
 
Considering everything the membership has been put through, from the TWU & company - why would that surprise you?