odie01
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- May 11, 2010
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Good coverup for another twu F'up....thanks for the help Analwartsfromthetwuinme
TWU says the Teamsters are Telling Lies
- Thread starter TWU informer
- Start date
In case you have forgotten that just 9 short months ago these two unions were the best of friends. I have yet to see an official letter from the TWU InternAAtional dissolving this relationship due to the raid being conducted by the IBT at AA. I guess they'll just let bygones be bygones since "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Airline Division News, Week Ending November 12, 2011
Teamsters Airline Division, Transport Workers Union Air Transport Division Meet
This past week, representatives of the IBT and TWU met in Washington to discuss areas of mutual interest.
The Teamsters Airline Division has had a relationship with the Transport Workers Union Air Transport Division for some time now.
We have joined forces on a number of occasions including the fight on foreign outsourcing of aircraft maintenance and other issues that are of importance to our collective membership."
Anomaly
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- Jun 2, 2012
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Excellent point. I am happy to hear that two unions sharing the same interests can continue to work together for the common good of the membership. The subject, as you have shown, is foreign outsourcing. I wish the IAM and AMFA would get on board as well. I would have no problem taking on this fight together with the members of any of the other unions I do not always agree with. In this case your words should ring loud and true.
"the enemy of my enemy is my friend" ........... the enemy to all of us are the MRO's stealing jobs away while we busily fight each other.
Good post even if differently intended.
We have joined forces on a number of occasions including the fight on foreign outsourcing of aircraft maintenance and other issues that are of importance to our collective membership."
I believe the word "including" defines just one of the occasions they joined forces on. That leaves out a number of others.
BTW, they are.
AMFA Submits Testimony To Congress To Save Jobs & Protect The Public Feb 17, 2011 - Posted by: AMFA National
http://www.amfanatio...age=Legislative
Anomaly,
You posted Joshua D. McInerney, letter, and praised him in other post for what he does. This guy is a complete loser. Seham sent him away puking his guts out, he was so worked over. When the pressure was aplied to him he caved every single time. And in the end he yet again caved to the AT mechanics wishes (which were completely against his). The teamsters need to do themselves a favor and fire him. He even got completely beat up by the company (SWA) as well, he was so worked when he left, because he just gave up at the end. Some say it was hard to watch, but it couldn't have happend to a better rival to AMFA than the teamsters. AMFA's faultery point was after teamster attorney, Joshua D. McInerney, told AMFA's Seham he would sue SWA, and AMFA over the March 29th LOA, Seham's reponce was classical, he told Josh he would wipe the floor with him in any court of law, and told him to file. SWA could not help notice how quickly Josh started to back up into the corner. It was all overwith from there, and all this happend at the begining of SLI nego's. We've seen this guy in action, just by you praising him and letters he writes only hurts your case for the teamsters. But don't believe me just ask one of the AirTran guys, they will tell you the same. Had to say something about Joshua D. McInerney in action as it was pathetic to watch, but yet very entertaining!!!
You posted Joshua D. McInerney, letter, and praised him in other post for what he does. This guy is a complete loser. Seham sent him away puking his guts out, he was so worked over. When the pressure was aplied to him he caved every single time. And in the end he yet again caved to the AT mechanics wishes (which were completely against his). The teamsters need to do themselves a favor and fire him. He even got completely beat up by the company (SWA) as well, he was so worked when he left, because he just gave up at the end. Some say it was hard to watch, but it couldn't have happend to a better rival to AMFA than the teamsters. AMFA's faultery point was after teamster attorney, Joshua D. McInerney, told AMFA's Seham he would sue SWA, and AMFA over the March 29th LOA, Seham's reponce was classical, he told Josh he would wipe the floor with him in any court of law, and told him to file. SWA could not help notice how quickly Josh started to back up into the corner. It was all overwith from there, and all this happend at the begining of SLI nego's. We've seen this guy in action, just by you praising him and letters he writes only hurts your case for the teamsters. But don't believe me just ask one of the AirTran guys, they will tell you the same. Had to say something about Joshua D. McInerney in action as it was pathetic to watch, but yet very entertaining!!!
amalamadingdong,
If you would quit lying, people would quit calling you a liar.
But I guess you can't......
Tex-Mech
Veteran
I guess he doesn't understand that we are already going through a prolonged divorce with a lying union, and trading this liar for another liar is not going to happen. Especially when the new liar costs $400 more a year than the old liar.
Anomaly
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- Jun 2, 2012
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Just to clarify, you are talking about the SWA group of amfa mechanics who forcefully tried to ignore the seniority of new members (forced new members as a result of an airline merger) to the union? Is it this group you are talking about? Those mechanics who overwhelmingly voted to staple the new amfa members to the bottom regardless of the many years of service they brought to your union. Are these the guys you are talking about??
You talk about this as a proud accomplishment, but in many circles of professionals, the move to exclude seniority served as a catalyst for many groups to discuss what is wrong with unions. The merger of the two airlines was not the choice of any mechanic, but the larger and best compensated UNION chose to bully the smaller group in to unrealistic concessions. Did you get that? THE UNION (amfa) WANTED TO FORCE CONCESSIONS!!!
The most fair and legal method was of course to merge by seniority and the Teamster lawyer fought a very contentious group of SWA mechanics to do this. I did not here that the ATA mechanics were at all upset or disappointed with the job done by the IBT attorney. In fact, with both votes on the IBT/ATA side the count was released and the results were approval for the job done by the Teamsters in the 90 percentile. The final vote on the AirTran side came in at 262 to 65 I believe. This does not sound at all like the testimony you described above.
In the IBT circles, we heard the exact opposite. We heard it was the circus clown lawyer from the Seeham group that was sent packing. It seems to ring more true as in the end negotiations clearly favored those new amfa members from ATA. The original proposal from SWA was to staple the entire group to the bottom and setup a C scale so that no ATA mechanic could make the same or more than an SWA mechanic. That did not happen.
Beyond all that, the fact that the new ATA members of amfa were forced to get help from the IBT attorney in order to get a fair shake from the association is appalling. The laws in place, such as McCaskill-Bond act were enacted as a result of the lopsided merger of TWA and American and is supposed to prohibit the type of treatment TWA employees experienced. Unfortunately, SWA mechanics were told through their attorney that relatively little case law exists to interpret the statute and the benefit of time was on their side. Simply put, SWA wanted to stall the merger and they knew an arbitration decision would do just that. ATA on the other hand wanted the 35% in pay increases plus the added benefits as quickly as possible. They just were not willing to throw away all of their seniority to get it. They should not have had to either, in my opinion.
Following the case and with just a little extra reading on the issue, I get a completely different read on the abilities and success of the attorneys in question. Needless to say, it is opposite of your post.
Your letter points to the group who portrays the general mindset and mentality illustrated by those amfa supporting members. This merger generates an accepted anthem sung by elitist supporters of the association;
amfa's battle cry........Take care of me, screw everyone else.
Anomaly
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- Jun 2, 2012
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The Truth About The SWA/ATA agreement
• Following the merger of AirTran and Southwest in May 2011, an AirTran Merger Committee was formed. The committee consisted of 12 union stewards from various AirTran stations. This committee was charged by their fellow mechanics with negotiating the best seniority integration deal they could for AirTran mechanics. The committee was also provided expert
and legal assistance by the IBT.
• In the course of seniority integration negotiations with the Southwest Mechanics, the AirTran Committee had two overarching and, at times, competing goals. The first goal was to negotiate a seniority integration that protected AirTran mechanics’ jobs and seniority status at their stations. The second goal was to have a seniority integration agreement ratified by AirTran and Southwest mechanics as quickly as possible so that AirTran Mechanics could be brought under the Southwest Mechanic pay rates that are approximately 35 percent higher than those at AirTran. Both of these goals were achieved on behalf of the AirTran mechanics by their committee.
• With respect to seniority integration, AirTran mechanics will be integrated on a date-of-hire basis with Southwest mechanics at all AirTran stations if in fact any Southwest mechanics choose to transfer to those AirTran Stations. Moreover, if there are any furloughs at any AirTran stations, Southwest mechanics who have transferred to those stations will be the first to
go regardless of seniority. For example, if an AMFA-represented Southwest Mechanic with 25 years of seniority transfers to Atlanta (an AirTran station), that Southwest mechanic would be furloughed prior to an AirTran mechanic with two years of seniority.
• At Baltimore and Orlando, the only two stations containing both AirTran and Southwest mechanics, the parties obtained an agreement from the company to protect not only the jobs of the AirTran mechanics, but also to maintain the same number of day, evening, and overnight positions with the same days off that existed for both groups of mechanics at the time of the merger. Even if these “protected slots” are vacated, they are first to be offered to AirTran Mechanics if the slot was vacated by an AirTran Mechanic. In Southwest stations, Southwest mechanics will receive a seniority increase; however, there is no indication that any AirTran Mechanics desire to transfer to those stations and, therefore, this seniority increase is meaningless.
• With respect to the AirTran Committee’s second goal of securing a 35-percent wage increase for their co-workers, the committee was able to negotiate a five percent wage increase on January 1, 2012 and an additional 30 percent wage increase on March 1 along with significant other work rule and benefit improvements (e.g., improvement in vacation and sick accrual, increase in holidays, participation in the Southwest Productivity Performance Bonus Plan, etc.) that are to be implemented if the seniority integration agreement is ratified.
• Make no mistake about it. Negotiations were contentious at best with AMFA demanding unreasonable seniority integration provisions, which time and time again were rejected. In fact, several positions taken by AMFA could very well have driven the seniority integration process into arbitration, which could easily have taken a year or more in which to resolve itself. In the meantime, AirTran Mechanics would have remained outside the Southwest pay and benefits system for an extended period of
time.
• While the Teamsters are dedicated to achieving fair and equitable seniority integrations in the airline industry, the unique facts of the AirTran and Southwest merger, not the least of which is the vast difference in mechanic pay at the two carriers, created a situation in which the AirTran Merger Committee had many hard decisions to make. True to their mission
and acting on the wishes of their co-workers, however, the Merger Committee was able to secure agreements that, while granting Southwest mechanics meaningless seniority increases at Southwest stations only, still protect AirTran mechanics’ seniority at current AirTran stations and delivers them significant pay and benefit increases beginning on January 1, 2012 with a complete transition to Southwest pay and benefits by March 1, 2012. That is Teamster ingenuity and dedication at its best.
http://www.teamster.org/content/airtransouthwest-merger-updates
On June 21, the IBT-represented Mechanics at AirTran Airways voted 262 to 65 in favor of ratifying a seniority integration agreement that will serve as the basis for integrating the AirTran and Southwest mechanic seniority lists as these carriers move toward total operational integration. Along with ratifying the seniority integration agreement, the AirTran mechanics also ratified, as part of the single ratification vote, a transition agreement between the IBT and Southwest/AirTran that will give them enhanced wages and benefits along with station protection at BWI and MCO.
After months of contentious negotiations, the Airtran seniority integration committee was able to satisfy the wishes of the membership and reach an agreement with the SWA mechanics that both work groups were able to ratify. While the agreement falls outside the Teamsters philosophy of straight date of hire entry into classification the committee made the decision to proceed to a vote.
The next step in the process will be a joint filing for a single carrier finding by the National Mediation Board. Upon such finding, the AirTran mechanics will transition to the Southwest agreement. Until that time, the Teamsters will continue to provide AirTran mechanics with the superior representation they have come to expect.
• Following the merger of AirTran and Southwest in May 2011, an AirTran Merger Committee was formed. The committee consisted of 12 union stewards from various AirTran stations. This committee was charged by their fellow mechanics with negotiating the best seniority integration deal they could for AirTran mechanics. The committee was also provided expert
and legal assistance by the IBT.
• In the course of seniority integration negotiations with the Southwest Mechanics, the AirTran Committee had two overarching and, at times, competing goals. The first goal was to negotiate a seniority integration that protected AirTran mechanics’ jobs and seniority status at their stations. The second goal was to have a seniority integration agreement ratified by AirTran and Southwest mechanics as quickly as possible so that AirTran Mechanics could be brought under the Southwest Mechanic pay rates that are approximately 35 percent higher than those at AirTran. Both of these goals were achieved on behalf of the AirTran mechanics by their committee.
• With respect to seniority integration, AirTran mechanics will be integrated on a date-of-hire basis with Southwest mechanics at all AirTran stations if in fact any Southwest mechanics choose to transfer to those AirTran Stations. Moreover, if there are any furloughs at any AirTran stations, Southwest mechanics who have transferred to those stations will be the first to
go regardless of seniority. For example, if an AMFA-represented Southwest Mechanic with 25 years of seniority transfers to Atlanta (an AirTran station), that Southwest mechanic would be furloughed prior to an AirTran mechanic with two years of seniority.
• At Baltimore and Orlando, the only two stations containing both AirTran and Southwest mechanics, the parties obtained an agreement from the company to protect not only the jobs of the AirTran mechanics, but also to maintain the same number of day, evening, and overnight positions with the same days off that existed for both groups of mechanics at the time of the merger. Even if these “protected slots” are vacated, they are first to be offered to AirTran Mechanics if the slot was vacated by an AirTran Mechanic. In Southwest stations, Southwest mechanics will receive a seniority increase; however, there is no indication that any AirTran Mechanics desire to transfer to those stations and, therefore, this seniority increase is meaningless.
• With respect to the AirTran Committee’s second goal of securing a 35-percent wage increase for their co-workers, the committee was able to negotiate a five percent wage increase on January 1, 2012 and an additional 30 percent wage increase on March 1 along with significant other work rule and benefit improvements (e.g., improvement in vacation and sick accrual, increase in holidays, participation in the Southwest Productivity Performance Bonus Plan, etc.) that are to be implemented if the seniority integration agreement is ratified.
• Make no mistake about it. Negotiations were contentious at best with AMFA demanding unreasonable seniority integration provisions, which time and time again were rejected. In fact, several positions taken by AMFA could very well have driven the seniority integration process into arbitration, which could easily have taken a year or more in which to resolve itself. In the meantime, AirTran Mechanics would have remained outside the Southwest pay and benefits system for an extended period of
time.
• While the Teamsters are dedicated to achieving fair and equitable seniority integrations in the airline industry, the unique facts of the AirTran and Southwest merger, not the least of which is the vast difference in mechanic pay at the two carriers, created a situation in which the AirTran Merger Committee had many hard decisions to make. True to their mission
and acting on the wishes of their co-workers, however, the Merger Committee was able to secure agreements that, while granting Southwest mechanics meaningless seniority increases at Southwest stations only, still protect AirTran mechanics’ seniority at current AirTran stations and delivers them significant pay and benefit increases beginning on January 1, 2012 with a complete transition to Southwest pay and benefits by March 1, 2012. That is Teamster ingenuity and dedication at its best.
http://www.teamster.org/content/airtransouthwest-merger-updates
On June 21, the IBT-represented Mechanics at AirTran Airways voted 262 to 65 in favor of ratifying a seniority integration agreement that will serve as the basis for integrating the AirTran and Southwest mechanic seniority lists as these carriers move toward total operational integration. Along with ratifying the seniority integration agreement, the AirTran mechanics also ratified, as part of the single ratification vote, a transition agreement between the IBT and Southwest/AirTran that will give them enhanced wages and benefits along with station protection at BWI and MCO.
After months of contentious negotiations, the Airtran seniority integration committee was able to satisfy the wishes of the membership and reach an agreement with the SWA mechanics that both work groups were able to ratify. While the agreement falls outside the Teamsters philosophy of straight date of hire entry into classification the committee made the decision to proceed to a vote.
The next step in the process will be a joint filing for a single carrier finding by the National Mediation Board. Upon such finding, the AirTran mechanics will transition to the Southwest agreement. Until that time, the Teamsters will continue to provide AirTran mechanics with the superior representation they have come to expect.
Anomaly
Veteran
- Jun 2, 2012
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Just found this on the web,
http://www.teamster.org/aamx
http://www.teamster.org/content/yes-teamsters-can-and-will-reopen-contract
Yes, The Teamsters Can And Will Reopen The Contract
August 17, 2012
Much has been said over the past few weeks regarding the Teamster’s ability to reopen the very narrowly ratified Maintenance contract. Here are the facts.
The Teamsters, after ejecting AMFA from the property at UAL, notified UAL that we intended to reopen the AMFA MX contract. UAL recognized our right to reopen and solicited dates from us to begin bargaining. Rather than rush to the table, however, the membership decided through a survey that a tactical delay in reopening was the best decision owing to the fact that the industry was in turmoil in 2008 and bargaining at that time would not have resulted in the gains realized in the recently ratified agreement for Teamster Mechanics at UAL.
Nonetheless, the point is that UAL never claimed that the Teamsters had no right to reopen the contract once it took over representation from AMFA.
Similarly, in 2005, the Teamsters took over the representation of Mechanics from the IAM at Piedmont Airlines. Initially, after the Teamsters filed a Section 6 Notice to reopen the concessionary IAM contract, the airline refused to meet with us. We immediately filed suit in Federal Court under Section 2, First of the Railway Labor Act to force the company to come to the table. At the eleventh hour, Piedmont capitulated and agreed to settle out of court and begin bargaining on a new contract.
We are confident that Piedmont agreed to do so in order to save face before a court decision ordering them to the table was issued. The fact is that Teamsters Airline Division will not waiver from our stance that we can and will reopen your contract just as we have done in the past!
Please do not let fear mongering dissuade you from making the right choice.
Choose strength, choose the Teamsters!
For more information, call the Campaign hotline at 877-589-4951.
http://www.teamster.org/aamx
http://www.teamster.org/content/yes-teamsters-can-and-will-reopen-contract
Yes, The Teamsters Can And Will Reopen The Contract
August 17, 2012
Much has been said over the past few weeks regarding the Teamster’s ability to reopen the very narrowly ratified Maintenance contract. Here are the facts.
The Teamsters, after ejecting AMFA from the property at UAL, notified UAL that we intended to reopen the AMFA MX contract. UAL recognized our right to reopen and solicited dates from us to begin bargaining. Rather than rush to the table, however, the membership decided through a survey that a tactical delay in reopening was the best decision owing to the fact that the industry was in turmoil in 2008 and bargaining at that time would not have resulted in the gains realized in the recently ratified agreement for Teamster Mechanics at UAL.
Nonetheless, the point is that UAL never claimed that the Teamsters had no right to reopen the contract once it took over representation from AMFA.
Similarly, in 2005, the Teamsters took over the representation of Mechanics from the IAM at Piedmont Airlines. Initially, after the Teamsters filed a Section 6 Notice to reopen the concessionary IAM contract, the airline refused to meet with us. We immediately filed suit in Federal Court under Section 2, First of the Railway Labor Act to force the company to come to the table. At the eleventh hour, Piedmont capitulated and agreed to settle out of court and begin bargaining on a new contract.
We are confident that Piedmont agreed to do so in order to save face before a court decision ordering them to the table was issued. The fact is that Teamsters Airline Division will not waiver from our stance that we can and will reopen your contract just as we have done in the past!
Please do not let fear mongering dissuade you from making the right choice.
Choose strength, choose the Teamsters!
For more information, call the Campaign hotline at 877-589-4951.
Tex-Mech
Veteran
You didn't find it, you wrote it. But I am considering signing a card just to reap the rewards of a lawsuit when AA tells you to pack sand with your negotiations request. Who am I kidding, no I'm not--that would cost me $400 more a year in dues. Not worth it.
But onto your Piedmony story. Would you mind telling the rest of the story how this was a merger, and a runoff election between the IAM and the Teamsters. Also, how the contracts were already amendable at the time.
riceweevil
Advanced
- Jul 16, 2012
- 154
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Yes, the Teamsters Can and Will Reopen the Contract
Much has been said over the past few weeks regarding the Teamster’s ability to reopen the very narrowly ratified Maintenance contract. Click here to read the facts.
The Teamsters, after ejecting AMFA from the property at UAL, notified UAL that we intended to reopen the AMFA MX contract. UAL recognized our right to reopen and solicited dates from us to begin bargaining. Rather than rush to the table, however, the membership decided through a survey that a tactical delay in reopening was the best decision owing to the fact that the industry was in turmoil in 2008 and bargaining at that time would not have resulted in the gains realized in the recently ratified agreement for Teamster Mechanics at UAL.
Nonetheless, the point is that UAL never claimed that the Teamsters had no right to reopen the contract once it took over representation from AMFA.
Similarly, in 2005, the Teamsters took over the representation of Mechanics from the IAM at Piedmont Airlines. Initially, after the Teamsters filed a Section 6 Notice to reopen the concessionary IAM contract, the airline refused to meet with us. We immediately filed suit in Federal Court under Section 2, First of the Railway Labor Act to force the company to come to the table. At the eleventh hour, Piedmont capitulated and agreed to settle out of court and begin bargaining on a new contract.
We are confident that Piedmont agreed to do so in order to save face before a court decision ordering them to the table was issued. The fact is that Teamsters Airline Division will not waiver from our stance that we can and will reopen your contract just as we have done in the past!
Click here to download the flier.
Please do not let fear mongering dissuade you from making the right choice.
Choose strength, choose the Teamsters!
For more information, call the Campaign hotline at 877-589-4951 or visit www.teamster.org/aamx.
riceweevil
Advanced
- Jul 16, 2012
- 154
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You didn't find it, you wrote it. But I am considering signing a card just to reap the rewards of a lawsuit when AA tells you to pack sand with your negotiations request. Who am I kidding, no I'm not--that would cost me $400 more a year in dues. Not worth it.
amfa are supporters are only good at ONE thing: accusing the IBT of being EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE: LIARS!!!
amfa are supporters are only good at ONE thing: accusing the IBT of being EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE: LIARS!!!
Anomaly
Veteran
- Jun 2, 2012
- 1,220
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I supplied the links for you in the original post.
here they are again.
http://www.teamster.org/aamx
http://www.teamster....reopen-contract
There is also a number for you to call to ask the information you requested.
For more information, call the Campaign hotline at 877-589-4951.
I do not have a detailed account of the Piedmont issue. I am surprised you would ask me any way, considering you believe everything I write is a lie ???
I invite you to look this information up yourself. I have provided a good start, so let us know what you turn up. Consider that a challenge if you will. It will show the many non posters who regularly read this board if you are here to add solutions, or just stir the pot.
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