The twu just spit in your face!

[blue collar]

He is saying the IAM probably won't allow rank and file members on their side, to attend the SLI negotiations as observers.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to clarify. AMFA will have observers, IAM won't.

 

[swamt]

Why wouldn't the IAM boys be allowed? If AMFA wins at AA, and tha IAM is still the bargaining agent at US, wouldn't the two naturally be included in intergration negotiations, at leats until a single bargaining agent was certified?

As WN and blue collar have already addressed, I would like to confirm that, yes, I was referring to the observers on the AMFA side of AA (once voted in and prior to integration) and the IAM on the US mechanics side. AMFA will allow observers at the table for SLI nego's. IAM will not allow observers at the table for SLI nego's. However, my point was that the IAM may very well allow observers, as did the teamsters during the SWA and AT SLI nego's, to try and get the votes to get the combined airline to go to teamsters. Also, the AT membership forced the teamsters to allow observers. Just like the observers allowed at the SWA/AT SLI nego's, I would be willing to bet that the IAM WILL NOT allow the observers to participate or have any input into the SLI nego's. You need to start asking right now if you, the membership, will have any participation and or input on the up-coming integration nego's. Right now I will garrentee you the answer is no, however, if your membership at US would RIGHT NOW apply a rather large amount of pressure on your IAM union to allow observers at the integration nego's, I think you guys could get it done. Emails, text messages, phone calls, personal confrontations, and post the results will get this done. This is exactly what the AT membership did to get their seats at the nego table for the SLI nego's here at SWA/AT. Get loud and proud, and put pressure on your unions officials to allow it, it can happen...

 

[WNMECH]

As WN and blue collar have already addressed, I would like to confirm that, yes, I was referring to the observers on the AMFA side of AA (once voted in and prior to integration) and the IAM on the US mechanics side. AMFA will allow observers at the table for SLI nego's. IAM will not allow observers at the table for SLI nego's. However, my point was that the IAM may very well allow observers, as did the teamsters during the SWA and AT SLI nego's, to try and get the votes to get the combined airline to go to teamsters. Also, the AT membership forced the teamsters to allow observers. Just like the observers allowed at the SWA/AT SLI nego's, I would be willing to bet that the IAM WILL NOT allow the observers to participate or have any input into the SLI nego's. You need to start asking right now if you, the membership, will have any participation and or input on the up-coming integration nego's. Right now I will garrentee you the answer is no, however, if your membership at US would RIGHT NOW apply a rather large amount of pressure on your IAM union to allow observers at the integration nego's, I think you guys could get it done. Emails, text messages, phone calls, personal confrontations, and post the results will get this done. This is exactly what the AT membership did to get their seats at the nego table for the SLI nego's here at SWA/AT. Get loud and proud, and put pressure on your unions officials to allow it, it can happen...

There probably won't be much to their SLI negotiations anyway.
The IAM policy is DOH and with the similarities of both groups, it won't take long for the AA guys to agree to that.
Unless either side thinks they need some fences for some kind of station protection.

 

[iluvaa]

There probably won't be much to their SLI negotiations anyway.
The IAM policy is DOH and with the similarities of both groups, it won't take long for the AA guys to agree to that.
Unless either side thinks they need some fences for some kind of station protection.

The TWU will do whatever there master tells them to do(AA) but they will put on a good show pretending to be tough. So no it won't take long at all

 

[swamt]

There probably won't be much to their SLI negotiations anyway.
The IAM policy is DOH and with the similarities of both groups, it won't take long for the AA guys to agree to that.
Unless either side thinks they need some fences for some kind of station protection.

I agree with you. But I'm sure there are members on both sides that would like to attend SLI nego's.

 

[WNMECH]

I agree with you. But I'm sure there are members on both sides that would like to attend SLI nego's.

Agreed.
Closed negotiations breed secret self serving deals for union leaders and mistrust from the rank and file.
Not so much for an SLI, but for other deals with the company.
Like trading away profit sharing.

 

[swamt]

Agreed.
Closed negotiations breed secret self serving deals for union leaders and mistrust from the rank and file.
Not so much for an SLI, but for other deals with the company.
Like trading away profit sharing.

Good point. I still can't believe they did that.

 

[Bob Owens]

There probably won't be much to their SLI negotiations anyway.
The IAM policy is DOH and with the similarities of both groups, it won't take long for the AA guys to agree to that.
Unless either side thinks they need some fences for some kind of station protection.

Both sides bring bottom of the industry wages and benefits to the table, this truly is a merger of equals. Neither side has much of an arguement for preferential treatment of any kind and none of us will see any sort of windfall (like the AirTran guys saw with the merger with WN). DOH in the classification should be the rule. US guys who switched back and forth between title groups will make out somewhat but then again why should they be screwed when they operated under the rules in place?

My biggest concern is do we really want the same people from the ATD who punished us for voting down the 2010 TA (by blocking all attempts to demand a timely release-normally unions request a release immediately after rejecting a TA) to negotiate for us again? They need to be sent back to their boxes and we need to be able to pick who will represent us in the "Harmonization" talks with the USAIR workers.

 

[Barfbag]

Why doesn't the TWU and the IAM just agree on adopting the same principle that were previously agreed to in the TWA/AMR Kasher agreement ?

Going into to this merger, you basically have the same dynamics, the same two ground employee unions TWU and the IAM, about the same employee numbers and classifications and two major hubs that can be fenced in as STL was.

 

[Bob Owens]

Why doesn't the TWU and the IAM just agree on adopting the same principle that were previously agreed to in the TWA/AMR Kasher agreement ?

Going into to this merger, you basically have the same dynamics, the same two ground employee unions TWU and the IAM, about the same employee numbers and classifications and two major hubs that can be fenced in as STL was.

Well, because unlike that merger nobody is seeing their pay increase by thousands of dollars a year by being brought up to a higher payscale. Nobody is gaining a pension or retiree medical either (even though it didnt last but was part of the package when Kasher was struck). When the TWA guys came aboard they saw big improvements, true, they did not last but they were in place when Kasher was struck. At the time of the deal they figured that TWA added around 25% to the size of AA, and much like the benefits thats pretty much gone as well.

With the USAIR deal the USAIR workers are seeing the company they work for increase by more than 100%. USAIR will add a little more than TWA did, but the workers wont be seeing a big windfall like the TWA workers did in 2001.

Considering the two groups doing the negotiations I expect to see little overall improvement. We may pick up a week of vacation to bring us more in line with what the rest of the industry has, (not for our benefit but to make it so they can get people to hire on, who would stay with just one week of vacation when others are hiring? Sooner or later Eagle will run out of mechanics. ) maybe a few holidays (same reason as the vacation five days at half pay!!) but they will probably try and add years that will bring us into the next decade before we seee regular section six negotiations again.

 

[swamt]

Both sides bring bottom of the industry wages and benefits to the table, this truly is a merger of equals. Neither side has much of an arguement for preferential treatment of any kind and none of us will see any sort of windfall (like the AirTran guys saw with the merger with WN). DOH in the classification should be the rule. US guys who switched back and forth between title groups will make out somewhat but then again why should they be screwed when they operated under the rules in place?

My biggest concern is do we really want the same people from the ATD who punished us for voting down the 2010 TA (by blocking all attempts to demand a timely release-normally unions request a release immediately after rejecting a TA) to negotiate for us again? They need to be sent back to their boxes and we need to be able to pick who will represent us in the "Harmonization" talks with the USAIR workers.

DOH in the classification should be the rule.
I agree Bob. And thx for mentioning the windfall differences during the SWA/AT integration. Some people still do not understand the reasons behind the increased seniority awarded and nego by all of our union groups except for one. But most are now realizing and understand the huge differences in the windfall for AT. Big difference.

 

[Bob Owens]

That was the reasoning behind Kasher as well.

IRRC I will say that the IBT, compared to the TWU at AA and the IAM at USAIR did a fairly decent job for the guys at AT before the merger.

For a small carrier their contract was superior to ours as far as compensation.

If any of the AT guys compalin tell them they should be thankful that AA or US didnt buy them. Maybe they would have gotten full seniority but over the term of their careers it would probably cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars in concessions and layoffs. WN has never laid off, AA just had another one last year with plans to cut around 50% of the workforce over the term of the agreement. Since most of the guys at AA have at least 20 years seniority(US around the same-average age for mechanics at both carriers is at least 55) their 100% seniority would not have been much good.

Career wise they hit the Lotto. I'd walk away from 27 years at AA, (34 in the industry) and go back on nights if WN offered me a job in ISP.

 

[swamt]

That was the reasoning behind Kasher as well.

IRRC I will say that the IBT, compared to the TWU at AA and the IAM at USAIR did a fairly decent job for the guys at AT before the merger.

For a small carrier their contract was superior to ours as far as compensation.

If any of the AT guys compalin tell them they should be thankful that AA or US didnt buy them. Maybe they would have gotten full seniority but over the term of their careers it would probably cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars in concessions and layoffs. WN has never laid off, AA just had another one last year with plans to cut around 50% of the workforce over the term of the agreement. Since most of the guys at AA have at least 20 years seniority(US around the same-average age for mechanics at both carriers is at least 55) their 100% seniority would not have been much good.

Career wise they hit the Lotto. I'd walk away from 27 years at AA, (34 in the industry) and go back on nights if WN offered me a job in ISP.

Wish we were hiring for there Bob. We can all only hope. Keep your head up, maybe one day SWA will be hiring for ISP, you never know man...

 

[Bob Owens]

thanks, it would be a good move on SWA part, there are a lot of mechanics out here who commute to JFK or LGA. ISP is around 40 miles from those two airports and many of us pass it everyday and feel the way I do. I'm not talking just AA either, UAL, Jet Blue, Delta all have mechanics here and most of them aren't that happy with their employer.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The same could be said about SAN and guys here. Pensions frozen and pay/benefits at bottom of industry? Most guys here are between 20 and 27 years with AA. I know Southwest would get very qualified people from here. I'd be happy to start at SWA.