TWU Mechanic and Related T/A - Important Questions

[TWU informer]

I am convinced that many are filled with too much anger, resentment, and hatred to ever make a decent union at American Airlines. Always makes me sad to read this crap.

Thanks to those with some compassion and the prayers are always appreciated.

 

[Hopeful]

You make it sound like Eagle has orders for 175's, which they don't, and you assume the pilot's are going to give up their scope clause which they are not.

You tell a good story though. Hey I heard the moon landing was made up by the government....... 😛h34r:

Duke, why do you find this scenario so unbelievable? Don't you think there is a possible connection the new language in this TA regarding SMAs and LPP (labot protective provisions) and AA's future plans?

As it is now, if certain cities fall below a certain number of flights that NO TWU employees will be staffed.

 

[Hopeful]

I am convinced that many are filled with too much anger, resentment, and hatred to ever make a decent union at American Airlines. Always makes me sad to read this crap.

Thanks to those with some compassion and the prayers are always appreciated.

Informer,
I am sure many of us would love not be hateful and angry, but that can only change when the company gives us reason not to be. When they stop their concession campaign and stop preaching the lucky to have a job mantra, maybe we can move on.

Decency is a two way street.

 

[Duke787]

They've been selling Eagle for 20 years. Eagle exists as a means for AMR to split its workforce.

The pilots will get something for it. Then the next round of talks the company will use whatever they gave the pilots as propaganda fodder to try and make the pilots contracts look onerous.

Kind of like how the company uses all our 3P work to make it look like the workers are costing the company more than any other carrier. 3P work involves labor, thus increases the amount the company spends on labor, this labor cost gets charged against the ASMS but it doesnt produce any ASMs, it produces revenue.

AMR put Eagle up for sale 2 years ago, you play freely with the facts, weren't you on the negotiating committee? If you are stretching the truth on this what else are you not accurate about?

 

[Duke787]

Look for another job !! The choises seem to be yes=suicide no=leathal Injection by AA
Pick ur Poision !

Nobody is forcing you to work at AA...................I'm sure with your qualifications you can make $80k a year anywhere with 4 weeks vacation, retirement, and benefits.

 

[TWU informer]

Informer,
I am sure many of us would love not be hateful and angry, but that can only change when the company gives us reason not to be. When they stop their concession campaign and stop preaching the lucky to have a job mantra, maybe we can move on.

Decency is a two way street.

Ok Brother. But feelings are yours to have and control, others do not make you feel a certain way, you choose how you feel and/or you choose to blame others but the truth is your inner self and your inner peace will never come from the company, money, benefits, or others in general. At least that is my opinion.

If you allow the company or monetary items that kind of influence on your well being, you have a very tough road ahead my friend.

 

[Hopeful]

Ok Brother. But feelings are yours to have and control, others do not make you feel a certain way, you choose how you feel and/or you choose to blame others but the truth is your inner self and your inner peace will never come from the company, money, benefits, or others in general. At least that is my opinion.

If you allow the company or monetary items that kind of influence on your well being, you have a very tough road ahead my friend.

True....I do not take my work issues home with me,,,,,never!
But at work, the company has to deal with the attitudes of not only me, but a slew of employees in the system.
My family and home life are unaffected by my feelings for this company.

 

[Duke787]

Duke,

Your quote above is spoken with pure anti-unionism. TUL has shot down regional pay before? So have line presidents. There is a simple thread that your comment refuses to accept and that is we are ALL union men in a craft and profession that is unlike any other. Take an aircraft apart and rebuild it, maintain aircraft that are always advancing with new technologies, be professional and continue to learn and teach others as we continue in our careers, these are some of the things we do as AMTs.

If overhaul makes as much as a line guy that is fine with me. Your opinion above implies that the line guys should just not care about overhaul is burchetteish talk. There is enough attempt from the company, with the international's assistance, to divide our ranks. But continue to posst from behind an alias while doing the company/union's bidding.

But know this, overhaul needs the line and the line needs overhaul. We both combine to produce a worldclass product. Unity starts with one person taking a stand and speaking out AGAINST what is BAD for our craft and profession not speaking FOR what is bad. Perhaps you should read and try to understand the meaning behind these words, "I will act if what I do makes a difference.".

VOTE NO!

I guess I'm not a socialist, but what the market calls for is line mechs making $40+ an hour, the market for an overhaul mech is less then that, I saw a job at Tinker AFB OKC for $26.50 an hour with 7 day coverage.
Most are at about $17. You can a have all the theory you want, but what I see on this forum is everybody tearing down our union. You want me to stand as one with everyone in our union, then you call it corrupt.

What kind of message are you sending?

 

[Tex-Mech]

You make it sound like Eagle has orders for 175's, which they don't, and you assume the pilot's are going to give up their scope clause which they are not.

Not unless the APA pilots fly the e-175's under a new commuter airline with reduced wages, but seniority back to mainline. The new APA leadership I am told has been very receptive to this idea. If this were to happen, AA AMT's would not be working on these rj's.

 

[Duke787]

Duke, why do you find this scenario so unbelievable? Don't you think there is a possible connection the new language in this TA regarding SMAs and LPP (labot protective provisions) and AA's future plans?

As it is now, if certain cities fall below a certain number of flights that NO TWU employees will be staffed.

I do believe that AA will shift more flights to Eagle, but I don't think that Eagle will have a 500 a/c fleet of
E-175's and AA
will shrink to a 450 a/c fleet. I also think it will be foolish for AA to continue to fly unprofitable route's, like TWA, Pan Am, Braniff and Eastern did. AA does not get subsidized like Amtrak or Aeroflot, or GM for that matter.

 

[Duke787]

Not unless the APA pilots fly the e-175's under a new commuter airline with reduced wages, but seniority back to mainline. The new APA leadership I am told has been very receptive to this idea. If this were to happen, AA AMT's would not be working on these rj's.

Never go by what I heard, lets go by facts, plus I hope that won't happen. Or it could be like when we had the F100's, we work them and the pilots fly them. I don't think this will happen though, the pilot's make far to much money for AA to fly such a small plane. Don't forget AMR is trying to sell Eagle.

 

[The Goose]

And how about holding those in MANAGEMENT accountable for bad business decisions? Or can management do no wrong in your eyes, Birdman?
The TWU has been the best union any company could ever buy. They have given the company virtually everything they desired.
I don't know what more you want from us lowly union members.

Who refuses to work? That is a terminable offense... Tell me WHO REFUSES TO WORK????????????
SICK TIME abuse?..I can tell you that since the 2003 concessionary package where mechanics get HALF PAY FOR THE FIRST TWO SICK DAYS CALLED IN PER OCCURENCE....people call in sick a minimum of three days just for good measure.
Remember, Birdman, you reap what you sow, and the company has to expect poor productivity as long as they insist on more concessions from us.

I've stated this opinion a few times and will do so again.

In 2003, the TWU let it be known they "worked" their butts off to save jobs and we were supposed to be eternally grateful. The bottom line was the benevolent union was doing no more than saving a large source of their income.

The company informs the union how much they intend to spend on maintenance and the TWU cuts it up on a per-person basis to "save" the maximum number of jobs (and dues flow). As the company's costs rise, the "offers" become concessionary in nature in order to keep the TWU living in the style to which it has become accustomed.

Now - everybody is guilty of being a slug on occasion and not doing a damned thing during the course of a shift, but in order to get the pay and benefits back to where we want them, it's going to take so drastic action.

How many mechs could the company stand to do without and still accomplish the same amount of work? My guess is if everyone would work a half shift every day (4 hours), half of the base's personnel could be cut. Unfortunately, due to union seniority rules re: RIFs, most of those who would be retained are the problem.

There is no system of employee review, as most are aware. It's a damned difficult task to get fired at American. Political correctness is the order of the day - ie, if one doesn't want to do their job all is fine but make an offhand remark that MIGHT be racially charged and you're screwed. How in hell can a business be run under those circumstances?

On the other side of the coin, American's management types are totally unqualified to do anything other than time and attendance recording and nobody in their right mind would want to give the present supervision more power as they aren't qualified to deal with what little they have now.

Getting rid of the Totally Worthless "Union" would be a start but the company would have to take a more active role in their own job functions.

Thanks for reading - I try to provide at least 1 laugh for everyone each day.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I guess I'm not a socialist, but what the market calls for is line mechs making $40+ an hour, the market for an overhaul mech is less then that, I saw a job at Tinker AFB OKC for $26.50 an hour with 7 day coverage.
Most are at about $17. You can a have all the theory you want, but what I see on this forum is everybody tearing down our union. You want me to stand as one with everyone in our union, then you call it corrupt.

What kind of message are you sending?

Duke,
I am not a socialist either I am a union man. No one on this forum is tearing down "our" union. I am speaking about UNIONISM. There is a difference here at AA. A real union doesn't peddle contracts that allow pay and benefits to erode. What you see is "our" union falling apart, not being torn down, because of its structure and unaccountability.

Is the Tinker job you speak of a union job?

 

[Duke787]

Duke,
I am not a socialist either I am a union man. No one on this forum is tearing down "our" union. I am speaking about UNIONISM. There is a difference here at AA. A real union doesn't peddle contracts that allow pay and benefits to erode. What you see is "our" union falling apart, not being torn down, because of its structure and unaccountability.

Is the Tinker job you speak of a union job?

Quote's like "a real union", you saying "our union is falling apart" are belittling of our union. Until we vote in a different union the TWU is "our" union. No matter what union is on the property, there is going to be something to complain about, and the guys on this forum will find it.

The Tinker Job is non-union.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Never go by what I heard, lets go by facts, plus I hope that won't happen. Or it could be like when we had the F100's, we work them and the pilots fly them. I don't think this will happen though, the pilot's make far to much money for AA to fly such a small plane. Don't forget AMR is trying to sell Eagle.

Sure their selling Eagle, but the scope clause covers "commuter" airlines, not just Eagle. Here is what the new pilots president says about large RJ's.

Q: Talk about regional flying. AMR has a relatively small percentage of its available seat miles flown by Eagle. There is room for them to grow and are you looking for them to do that? Or is there a line in the sand that you’re going to draw?


Bates: Absolutely. Right now, we own all the flying above the 50 seat and it’s based on the aircraft primarily. We own all flying above 50-seat aircraft with the exception of 47 70-seat [regional jets]. We believe that 50-seat class regional jets will rapidly become obsolete. We also believe that AMR at some point will want to obtain some larger small jets and we are very optimistic that we can find a way to operate those aircraft efficiently and competitively flown by American Airlines pilots.

Further down the article...

Shankland: The airline management, it’s their job to look at what primarily the future is going to look for this airline. The areas that we think is potential for them to investigate in where there is growth is that regional domestic market that is served by the smaller jets, the larger RJs and there is definitely international growth potential.

http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/2010/07/more-from-the-apa-media-meet-and-greet-on-thursday.html#more

So the question will be what is stopping them from having AA pilots fly the planes, AA flight attendants working them, and putting it under a "eagle 2" name, and operate them competitively that the APA speaks of? Of course with someone else doing the maintenance if this contract passes. I know this is a loophole, but it is one that our negotiators should have closed prior to bringing this contract to a vote.