TWU Mechanic and Related T/A - Important Questions

[Ken MacTiernan]

Bob,

You wrote, "IMO he was wrong, or worse, either way he doesnt have to live under it." You were referring to Don Videtich. You might as well include EVERYONE in the TWU International since NO ONE was/is/going to be affected with this ta passing since they do not take 28 1/2% pay/benefit cuts like we all did 7+ years ago.

Bells should be going off in EVERYONE's mind about why something like language regarding a spin-off/sale of portions of AA is in the ta. Why are articles brought back to the negotiating committee to vote on yet they don't get to read the article?

This is the best the company has to offer? I severely doubt it. The company and international have used up all their slogans and sayings except one... VOTE NO!

 

[chris perry]

Don't think it really matters for those that remember they limit the amount of bumping to the line (if i remember it was limited to 10 percent last time). So if yes or no i have the seniority to hold my job on the line. Unfortunatly some people are more intersted in justifing this agreement in their minds by saying its not that bad or i have mouths to feed. Instead i would be more concerned with the Eagle ASM langauge and the "spin off protection" because yes in Tulsa and AFW you could be living on $12.00 an hour wishing you could bump to the line. Don't kid yourself they will not cripple the line operation by allowing wholesale bumping. Again read the agreement and make your decision, part of your decision should include history at AA. The history of we will bring SR's into the shop on an attrition basis (not), The history of the me too clause etc.. Unfortunatly most of us want to beleive and help the company but we usually are repaid by a swift kick in the butt, after 20 years i just dont trust them. Why do the have to put the crap in the contract about the exceptions to the ASM seat cap "historically speaking equals 12.5 percent" instead of saying we want a 12.5 percent cap? Because 2 years from now they will say, will it used to be "historically 12.5 percent" now its 35 percent. They just can't be trusted to keep their word and act in a reasonable and logical manner. Untill they change the attitude at AA that "we know the cost of everything and the value of nothing" . If you have enough time with AA and look at it i cant vote on something that has not been written yet ie. profit sharing at the maintenance basses, Hanger 5 in DFW, they just CAN"T BE TRUSTED TO DO THE RIGHT THING! BOTH AA AND TWU!

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!

 

[will fix for food]

They've been selling Eagle for 20 years. Eagle exists as a means for AMR to split its workforce.

The pilots will get something for it. Then the next round of talks the company will use whatever they gave the pilots as propaganda fodder to try and make the pilots contracts look onerous.

Kind of like how the company uses all our 3P work to make it look like the workers are costing the company more than any other carrier. 3P work involves labor, thus increases the amount the company spends on labor, this labor cost gets charged against the ASMS but it doesnt produce any ASMs, it produces revenue.

All indications are that it is going to happen this time. Some people who have pretty good connections are saying it is all done but the signing.

 

[TWU informer]

We are obviously dealing with another TWU/AA playbook that pits us against each other. Fear and Intimidation from the company porpgated by the TWU Union Leaders. This shaneful method of operation has been played over and over at American Ailrlines since the day I becaime an employee in 1983.

I wish no ill will against my brothers that see things different and live in different circumstances than I do today. I am not going to provide personal medical detail about my wife but most of you know by now that she is very ill and I am desperate not to lose her. I will sacrifice my friendships, my honor, my integirty, my own self worth to insure my wife has the medical benefits that continue so that we stand a chance to be together. I just returned from another visit with her and my resolve and emotions run high while I type this messeage. I love my wife more than anything on this earth, I will go to the extremes to see her through these difficult times. God this is hard information to type on this forum but I know itis best. I will humble myslef and submit to finish.

It is very unfortunate that the TWU which is supposed to be our union representation refuses to hire professionals to assist in negotiations against what I know is a ruthless bunch of greedy corporate bastards that will stop at nothing to screw the working man over. I experienced the rath of this corporation first hand when myself and 6 others filed a lawsuit to simply be able to pass out union literature to tell everyone the truth regarding how they have failed us time and time again. Lee Seham and O.V. Delle-Femine will forever be commended in my mind for their effert to help us out in that regard.

I ask for each of you to understand that I find myself in a terrible position that makes me vunerable to fear tactics that always play out in TWU/AA negotiations. I will be voting YES out of fear of the alternative. I fear these pricks right now because my emotional state lacks the ability to make proper judgement because I cling to a fantastic love for my wife and a desire to have her by my side in the future and I know that even as bad as she is right now that the possibility exist as I type this that indeed a miracle is on the horizon. And when the miracle happens then praise be to God and his son Jesus Christ.

I do know however from experience that regardless of the outcome of the T/A the most important thing we could do as a workgroup is to work diligently to replace the TWU and get a bargaining agent that will represent us in a way that is honorable. trustworthy and trasparent in negotiations, local elections, and consitutional/legal aspects of unionism. If we fail we fail together, but please help and stand tall with anyone that is working towards removing this evil and inept group from the property of American Airlines. They deserve nothing less than an overwhlemig vote of no confidence by this membership.

While my emotions are high and fear for my future with my wife are at undesireable thresholds, I still in my heart know that the TWU is without a doubt corrupt, un-American, and not in our best interest. That this union represents its own interest and those interst of the Democratic Party far better than interest of the dues paying member.

I humbly ask each of you, regardless of the outcome of this T/A Ratification to locate and support an alternative for representation. This group that keeps secrets with management. is still on the property by way of Government Corruption, and contiuously fails to advance our well being in a professional and envious manner.

Each day I ask God to help my Wife, and each day I feel guilt that I must submit to this Union's tactics of divide and conquer out of fear and hope that my Wife soon shows signs of improvement. Please forgive me as I struggle with life and hold to love for my wife. But never forget that I know the truth about the TWU, and that I despise their worthless and corrupt representation and still long for the day that I get a ballot in the mail from the NMB to remove them for the property.

Above of all please forgive me if I appear erratic, illogical and at times unable to maintain a solid stance against what we all know is the correctable problem within the profession, our lives, and the industry.

Each and every TWU Union Officer that knows the truth and holds a false postion of belief that from an internal position we can change this union from within should stop the charade, promote an alternative representation and resign from this union while calling the media and together taking a stand that will change the face of our futures forever. You feel that strongly against this T/A then show your resolve. There are enough of you to resign over this debacle of a T/A call in the media as the ballots are mailed and make an impact beyond anything known in our profession.
Before the media each of you should resign and state your position on the T/A. Otherwise you also submit to the "I got mine Brother" philosophy.

I know I sound a fool. But never lose sight of the fact that my courage is tainted by one of the most emotional tribulations of my life. God Bless each and every one of you reading and please if you are a believer in miracles and grace say a prayer for my wife as you rest your own soul in the evenigs ahead.

 

[OgieJFK]

TWU informer, you and your wife are in my family's prayers. I know you've mentioned your wife being sick on more then one occasion. I pray she gets better. F*#% AA, the TWU, and everything else...family comes first. Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

My question is about what Don said to the committee about being #2 in the industry.

If the Wage Opener language is OPEN and intentionally vague, what is the guarantee of being 2nd from the top.


What percent of the form of internal equity for other classifications in the respective Title Group? It is interesting to note that no specific percentage number is given. Any Comment ?

.

Here is the Wage Opener language,
" ATTACHEMENT 47.1 - Wage Adjustment Provision (“Wage Opener”)
In the event workers at comparable airlines (WN, FL, DL, B6, CO, UA, US) amend their collective bargaining agreements, prior to the amendable date of this agreement, and these amendments lower the current standing in compensation of the TWU classifications listed above, the TWU will notify the company in writing of its intent to ‘open’ compensation negotiations limited to the following areas:
Chart Rate or Base rate
License/skill premiums
Line premiums
Longevity Pay
Weekend Premiums Midnight retention premiums All other shift premiums
It is understood between the parties that the purpose of this ‘wage adjustment’ provision is to ensure that the TWU classifications mentioned above, maintain their compensation standing with the industry comparators up until the amendable date of this agreement. In addition, it is intended to provide a percentage based form of internal equity for all other classifications, within the respective Title Group, covered by the AA/TWU Mechanic and Related agreement. "

This is indeed a worthless letter. If you read the entire letter, as i understand it, it ONLY APPLIES TO MIDNIGHT LINE. The #2 bs is based on a midnight line amt. It is not representative of most of the amts. This is just one more way they are pitting brother angainst brother,

 

[Birdman]

A great company that values its employees would never contrive the kind of language that instills fear and unrest into the lives of those it employs. On the other hand, what is a company to dowhen it feels its workforce has no longer provided it a high standard of service that enables it to compete? From what I hear, we are no exception in the industry in regard to the level of the lazy and unproductive. Why couldn't we have been the exception? I've said it many times that both comAAny and union leadership has not only failed to hold those accountable that have worked to undermine the integrity of our profession, but has emboldened those that blatantly refuse to work, carelessly destroys aircraft, and abuses attendance and sick time. Don't get me wrong, we have many valuable employees. There are simply not enough to convince management that we are worth investing in. I fired the union over 10 years ago. I'm convinced, as no one in the past has provided an alternate method, that the only way to send a powerful message to the compAAny union in through mass withdraw of membership.

Dave, I will not only pray your wife and family specifically, but will ask those with whom I worship to pray as well.

 

[Hopeful]

And how about holding those in MANAGEMENT accountable for bad business decisions? Or can management do no wrong in your eyes, Birdman?
The TWU has been the best union any company could ever buy. They have given the company virtually everything they desired.
I don't know what more you want from us lowly union members.

Who refuses to work? That is a terminable offense... Tell me WHO REFUSES TO WORK????????????
SICK TIME abuse?..I can tell you that since the 2003 concessionary package where mechanics get HALF PAY FOR THE FIRST TWO SICK DAYS CALLED IN PER OCCURENCE....people call in sick a minimum of three days just for good measure.
Remember, Birdman, you reap what you sow, and the company has to expect poor productivity as long as they insist on more concessions from us.

 

[Duke787]

After reading through the entire T/A Agreement Language I have a question for anyone on the negotiating team to answer in detail.
The language below has been inserted into Article 1. Page 7

Was this a Union Proposal or a Company Offer?

Was there any specifics discussed regarding sale or spin-off of Overhaul that would fall under a confidentiality agreement that would prohibit public discussion or disclosure?

What was the offering party's intent of this language insertion?



Article 1 Recognition and Scope



Every employee regardless of station but especially those at Tulsa and AFW should view this language as a very significant item.

Language like this does not just appear out of nowhere without cause and should raise concern. Yes it protects us but why does it read as if there is already something in the works?

What are you complaining about? You wouldn't have to work for AA anymore,
i'm sure the company that buys TUL will continue to pay you $30+ an hour, with all the benefits.

 

[Duke787]

lLets just assume there is a spin-off behind the curtain would that change your vote from a yes to no

just curious what your limit to concessions are. If you think a spin-off is a concession.

You never know the line guys might change their NO to a YES if they found out Tulsa would be on the chopping block

After decades of TUL shooting down regional pay, that just might happen. It might be better for the line guys in the long run not having to take less pay so overhaul can make line station wages, instead of overhaul wages plus the work rules.

 

[Duke787]

Good Grief! Read the language. It does matter, a YES vote places that labor protection provision language of employement and seniority protection into a/new current agreement. If it were to take place under the Voted NO agreement those protections are not there. How can you say that doesnt matter?

The Line AMT should be concerned because there is alot of high seniority in Tulsa and AFW and they will bumping those lower in seniority before they hit the street. Sure the Labor Protection Provision doesn't appear to apply to them. But when the bumping starts it will directly affect them in a negative way.

I don't recall this Labor Protection Provision even mentioned in the Bob Owens and Chuck Schaulk video release. In fact until now nobody has mentioned this. Instead we are busy name calling and badgering each other over our personal opinions.

How many guys do you think are going to uproot their family to leave TUL and a job to move to NY, Boston, Chicago or LA? If they do we will welcome them with open arms because now they have joined the airline industry. They will probably enjoy the summers, but winters and working the holidays will be a slap in the face.

 

[Hopeful]

How many guys do you think are going uproot their family to leave TUL and a job to move to NY, Boston, Chicago or LA? If they do we will welcome them with open arms because now they have joined the airline industry. They will probably enjoy the summers, but winters and working the holidays will be a slap in the face.

Don't forget cost of living.....property and school taxes, state income tax.....etc

 

[Duke787]

This was the company offer, like pretty much 99% of the contract, the committee had no input whatsoever in the writing of it. Its useless.

Here's how it went down.
Don had apparently met with the company without the committee the night before, or earlier in the morning prior to the committee getting together. Don told us the company added industry leading spin off protection language and a Wage Opener provision that will keep us number 2 in the industry. He added that this could be our last chance to come to an agreement and that it could be out of our hands, that this is the best offer the company is going to make and we should not even consider making counter proposals and vote on it as is, Todd Woodward made the motion to vote on the proposal with a published Roll Call vote which was seconded by Steve Luis.

We were never even given the opportunity to see the language prior to voting on it.

The fact is that system protection is our spin off protection, as system protection erodes it enables the company to spin off bigger and bigger pieces of the operation. We currently have enough people without system protection, to close all our class II stations or spin off AFW. This language isnt spin off protection, its spin off guidelines.

Should AA spin off an OH base thats exceeeds the 20% of total value (if any do or not I dont know) to an MRO those workers would no longer be subject to the RLA. Which means that if an MRO bought them come May 5, 2013 they could impose new terms and the workers would be free to strike, or they could sell it to a shell company, which files for BK right after the purchase and get the court to impose new terms.

Voting NO leaves us just as protected as we are now. Voting Yes makes a layoff /spinoff more likely because of the doubling of the ASM Cap. This will probably lead to an accellerated retirement of the S-80s and the transfer of those routes to Eagle as they get the E-175s. The Pilots and FAs will work out a deal where they get something out of the transfer, we wont.Our concessions will give the company the money they need to buy them off.

Here's how I see it going down if this passes.

If we vote YES the company will start hitting the Class II stations first, transferring those facilities to Eagle as fast as the E175s become available. Using rough numbers, (I didnt check) lets say we have around 7500 Title I with system protection right now. That normally drops by around 500/year, if this passes it will probably spike to around 1500 within a year after DOS as guys from Class II stations elect to hit the streets rather than transfer(their options will be limited to (DFW,MIA,JFK, LAX, ORD, AFW or TUL), and others in the high cost cities simply bail, this large exodus will allow the company to push AMTs out of the bases and backfill with SMAs. So a year after DOS System protection is down to around 6000. Total Tile I will be down to around 8500, or less. As the MD-80s are phased out Tulsa will continue to shrink, as Tulsa shrinks the company will continue to force AMTs out to the line to backfill attrition. The attrition rate will stay at around 1000 or more a year through 2013.

By the time we get the next agreement following this TA, 2015 or so ( the company will never settle a contract on time if they can drag it out and get away without paying retro, plus more system protected guys leave) , nearly all our Class II operations will be Eagle, Eagle will have around 500 airplanes and AA will have around 450 airplanes, those with system protection will be less than 4000. At this point the company could easily sell off both AFW and Tulsa. They would have five line class I stations where they do B checks and call them "maintenance Bases as well, since the definition of Maintenance Base doesnt have the word "only" in it. The B-checks will be staffed primarily with SMAs. They will also have DWH should they decide to spin off both Tulsa nad AFW where they can do some light OH work and have line support.

As AMTs leave and are replaced by SMAs it makes Tulsa a more attractive buy for an MRO. Whether or not they actually do ever sell it doesnt matter, they will be able to if they want and in 2015 they can offer system protection as a means to get another concessionary contract in place. By 2015 those without ststem protection will outnumber those with system protection. The company will get out of the Pension business in exchange for System Protection.

The Vermont Plan will be complete, without ever filing for BK.

You make it sound like Eagle has orders for 175's, which they don't, and you assume the pilot's are going to give up their scope clause which they are not.

You do tell a good "story" though.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

After decades of TUL shooting down regional pay, that just might happen. It might be better for the line guys in the long run not having to take less pay so overhaul can make line station wages, instead of overhaul wages plus the work rules.

Duke,

Your quote above is spoken with pure anti-unionism. TUL has shot down regional pay before? So have line presidents. There is a simple thread that your comment refuses to accept and that is we are ALL union men in a craft and profession that is unlike any other. Take an aircraft apart and rebuild it, maintain aircraft that are always advancing with new technologies, be professional and continue to learn and teach others as we continue in our careers, these are some of the things we do as AMTs.

If overhaul makes as much as a line guy that is fine with me. Your opinion above implies that the line guys should just not care about overhaul is burchetteish talk. There is enough attempt from the company, with the international's assistance, to divide our ranks. But continue to posst from behind an alias while doing the company/union's bidding.

But know this, overhaul needs the line and the line needs overhaul. We both combine to produce a worldclass product. Unity starts with one person taking a stand and speaking out AGAINST what is BAD for our craft and profession not speaking FOR what is bad. Perhaps you should read and try to understand the meaning behind these words, "I will act if what I do makes a difference.".

VOTE NO!

 

[Duke787]

This was the company offer, like pretty much 99% of the contract, the committee had no input whatsoever in the writing of it. Its useless.

Here's how it went down.
Don had apparently met with the company without the committee the night before, or earlier in the morning prior to the committee getting together. Don told us the company added industry leading spin off protection language and a Wage Opener provision that will keep us number 2 in the industry. He added that this could be our last chance to come to an agreement and that it could be out of our hands, that this is the best offer the company is going to make and we should not even consider making counter proposals and vote on it as is, Todd Woodward made the motion to vote on the proposal with a published Roll Call vote which was seconded by Steve Luis.

We were never even given the opportunity to see the language prior to voting on it.

The fact is that system protection is our spin off protection, as system protection erodes it enables the company to spin off bigger and bigger pieces of the operation. We currently have enough people without system protection, to close all our class II stations or spin off AFW. This language isnt spin off protection, its spin off guidelines.

Should AA spin off an OH base thats exceeeds the 20% of total value (if any do or not I dont know) to an MRO those workers would no longer be subject to the RLA. Which means that if an MRO bought them come May 5, 2013 they could impose new terms and the workers would be free to strike, or they could sell it to a shell company, which files for BK right after the purchase and get the court to impose new terms.

Voting NO leaves us just as protected as we are now. Voting Yes makes a layoff /spinoff more likely because of the doubling of the ASM Cap. This will probably lead to an accellerated retirement of the S-80s and the transfer of those routes to Eagle as they get the E-175s. The Pilots and FAs will work out a deal where they get something out of the transfer, we wont.Our concessions will give the company the money they need to buy them off.

Here's how I see it going down if this passes.

If we vote YES the company will start hitting the Class II stations first, transferring those facilities to Eagle as fast as the E175s become available. Using rough numbers, (I didnt check) lets say we have around 7500 Title I with system protection right now. That normally drops by around 500/year, if this passes it will probably spike to around 1500 within a year after DOS as guys from Class II stations elect to hit the streets rather than transfer(their options will be limited to (DFW,MIA,JFK, LAX, ORD, AFW or TUL), and others in the high cost cities simply bail, this large exodus will allow the company to push AMTs out of the bases and backfill with SMAs. So a year after DOS System protection is down to around 6000. Total Tile I will be down to around 8500, or less. As the MD-80s are phased out Tulsa will continue to shrink, as Tulsa shrinks the company will continue to force AMTs out to the line to backfill attrition. The attrition rate will stay at around 1000 or more a year through 2013.

By the time we get the next agreement following this TA, 2015 or so ( the company will never settle a contract on time if they can drag it out and get away without paying retro, plus more system protected guys leave) , nearly all our Class II operations will be Eagle, Eagle will have around 500 airplanes and AA will have around 450 airplanes, those with system protection will be less than 4000. At this point the company could easily sell off both AFW and Tulsa. They would have five line class I stations where they do B checks and call them "maintenance Bases as well, since the definition of Maintenance Base doesnt have the word "only" in it. The B-checks will be staffed primarily with SMAs. They will also have DWH should they decide to spin off both Tulsa nad AFW where they can do some light OH work and have line support.

As AMTs leave and are replaced by SMAs it makes Tulsa a more attractive buy for an MRO. Whether or not they actually do ever sell it doesnt matter, they will be able to if they want and in 2015 they can offer system protection as a means to get another concessionary contract in place. By 2015 those without ststem protection will outnumber those with system protection. The company will get out of the Pension business in exchange for System Protection.

The Vermont Plan will be complete, without ever filing for BK.

You make it sound like Eagle has orders for 175's, which they don't, and you assume the pilot's are going to give up their scope clause which they are not.

You tell a good story though. Hey I heard the moon landing was made up by the government....... h34r: