TWU Mechanic and Related T/A - Important Questions

[MCI transplant]

My 2 cents is eventually overhaul in its present form is gone. Horton is on record with regards to in house overhaul, he does not like it. New language with regards to sale or spin off of overhaul. TWU/AA driving a huge divide between line and overhaul. Heck they are even dividing members at the same station with the 50 and younger, then the "new" classification of"SMA". AMR Coombs? AMR services? Now, are these all fear tacitics by the union/company? Absolutely. Will I still vote NO? You had better believe it and so are everyone else I have talked to.

<_< ----- Hello hog!------ Well, looks like it's coming time to either "put up, or shut up!" I think your dead on about Horton and the TWU! Looks like AFW, and, or TUL, may end up like MCI!---- Or is it just a bluff?---- Either way, don't look good!!! Good Luck to you and yours!------ I'm outta here!!!!

 

[Birdman]

Yeah, but my bet is a majority votes no and the T/A passes and those printing/counting ballots sign a confidentiality agreement to not disclose the process. Sound familiiar?

Oh yeah, and I will be providing an easy to follow guide called "Agency Fee for Dummies".

 

[The Goose]

Oh yeah, and I will be providing an easy to follow guide called "Agency Fee for Dummies".

Please do - let me know when you've put it out because I really am interested.

 

[Duke787]

Sorry for the hard facts, but TUL, AFW and MCI mechanics are being paid at line mechanic wages while doing OH mechanic work. No other airline does that, then think about the overhead of those 3 base's. A lot of company's are farming out HR work, what makes you think AA won't farm out OH maint. AA has already taken steps to lesten the amount of FSC's AA has, not only by farming out their jobs at smaller airports, but by putting in automated parking system at the gate's of big airports.

Not even mentioning all the management at the OH base stations that are making a lot of money, but producing nothing, then there's the health care pension obligation's, all that kind of stuff. It seems like the logical choice to shrink AA, but not cut capacity. There will be a lot of layoff's and a lot of good mechs will leave AA. This will effect all the line stations because of the movement I'm sure. If they sell those base stations it will be horrible for those mechs that decide to uproot their families and move someplace more expensive then TUL.

 

[Hopeful]

I think AA is finally making that move with regards to the OH bases. If you look at the low cost carriers and even those legacies that went Chapter 11, you will find the OH bases bore the brunt more than the out stations.

They all have their own line mechanics and either maintain a small OH facility or contract out anything greater than a light C check. This is a sad reality for all of us.

I believe AA will first transition the OH bases into lower cost operations with the SMAs. This coupled with no pensions for new hires makes it a win-win for the company. The SMA rate brings OH more in line with most MRO's throughout the country. The next step would be to "spin off" OH, keep the TWU as the bargaining unit and ultimately separate the new AA MRO from the line stations.....DIVIDE AND CONQUER COMPLETED!

As for the line stations, I see only Class 1 stations being staffed by AA mechanics, with the class II's being phased out forcing those mechanics to backfill through out the system.

As for the Class I stations, the B Check operations at those facilities will defined as BASE operations thus staffing B checks with SMAs under that rule which affects the OH bases.

And, of course, I see any station NOT a Class I being outsourced with NO AA people in any work group.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Sorry for the hard facts, but TUL, AFW and MCI mechanics are being paid at line mechanic wages while doing OH mechanic work. No other airline does that, then think about the overhead of those 3 base's.

All the majors pay AMTs the same in the line and the hangar, US, UA and all of them, the only difference is line pay and maybe license.

 

[Duke787]

All the majors pay AMTs the same in the line and the hangar, US, UA and all of them, the only difference is line pay and maybe license.

Assuming you mean overhaul maintenance when you say hanger, AA is the only airline that does it's own overhaul maint. all the other airlines take it to company's like Timco, AAR, or flying the a/c out of the country for a C check, and those company's are not paying $32+ an hour with a retirement other then 401k. USair , UAL Delta did away with their overhaul during their bankruptcy's.All the other airlines have a fraction of the amount mechanics on their payroll as AA does. Mostly due to the fact we took the 2003 MOAC, (mother of all concessions).

I have no doubt that if AA decides to replace us if we go on strike, those laidoff mechanics will jump at the chance to make $35 an hour at AA.

 

[Duke787]

I think AA is finally making that move with regards to the OH bases. If you look at the low cost carriers and even those legacies that went Chapter 11, you will find the OH bases bore the brunt more than the out stations.

They all have their own line mechanics and either maintain a small OH facility or contract out anything greater than a light C check. This is a sad reality for all of us.

I believe AA will first transition the OH bases into lower cost operations with the SMAs. This coupled with no pensions for new hires makes it a win-win for the company. The SMA rate brings OH more in line with most MRO's throughout the country. The next step would be to "spin off" OH, keep the TWU as the bargaining unit and ultimately separate the new AA MRO from the line stations.....DIVIDE AND CONQUER COMPLETED!

As for the line stations, I see only Class 1 stations being staffed by AA mechanics, with the class II's being phased out forcing those mechanics to backfill through out the system.

As for the Class I stations, the B Check operations at those facilities will defined as BASE operations thus staffing B checks with SMAs under that rule which affects the OH bases.

And, of course, I see any station NOT a Class I being outsourced with NO AA people in any work group.

I couldn't agree more, didn't AA change the class 1 stations operating certificate so they can operate them as a maint base a couple of years ago?

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Assuming you mean overhaul maintenance when you say hanger, AA is the only airline that does it's own overhaul maint. all the other airlines take it to company's like Timco, AAR, or flying the a/c out of the country for a C check, and those company's are not paying $32+ an hour with a retirement other then 401k. USair , UAL Delta did away with their overhaul during their bankruptcy's.All the other airlines have a fraction of the amount mechanics on their payroll as AA does. Mostly due to the fact we took the 2003 MOAC, (mother of all concessions).

I have no doubt that if AA decides to replace us if we go on strike, those laidoff mechanics will jump at the chance to make $35 an hour at AA.

You need to inform the US Mechanics in CLT and PIT who overahaul the 737s, A320 Family and 757s, they do the C-Checks, S-Checks and HMV on the 757s,A320s and 737s and the Mechanics in PHX performing C-Checks, that they arent doing that, LOL, US only outsources the widebodies and some of the West fleet, everything else is done in-house and they are doing some work on the widebodies again.

What about the DL's mechanics in ATL who overhaul some of their fleet and UA in SFO.

CO in IAH and MCO.

Me thinks your information needs updating.

 

[Bob Owens]

Whatever happened to the discussion being about the TWU M&R Article 1 Recognition and Scope Language and the potential sale of Aircraft Maintenance Assets?

Why hasn't Bob Owens answered wheter he or any other negotiation committee members signed confidentiality agreements during negotiations?

Why do you ask and what type of confidentiality agreements are you refering to? Company to union or union to union?

 

[Duke787]

You need to inform the US Mechanics in CLT and PIT who overahaul the 737s, A320 Family and 757s, they do the C-Checks, S-Checks and HMV on the 757s,A320s and 737s and the Mechanics in PHX performing C-Checks, that they arent doing that, LOL, US only outsources the widebodies and some of the West fleet, everything else is done in-house and they are doing some work on the widebodies again.

What about the DL's mechanics in ATL who overhaul some of their fleet and UA in SFO.

CO in IAH and MCO.

Me thinks your information needs updating.

Thanks for the update, and correction, but I hope AA executive's don't follow USair's lead, they are not a airline to emulate.

 

[Duke787]

Why do you ask and what type of confidentiality agreements are you refering to? Company to union or union to union?

What a way to answer a question, you sound just like Kozatek, or is it Bob Owezetek.......................we have lost all hope when our negotiating team tries to sound like a lawyer when communicating to another mechanic, and can't answer a direct question. You have won my loyalty.

Lets talk more about how AA management is hiding stuff from us or is it the TWU or is it Owezetek!!!! h34r:

 

[whoop whoop]

Sorry for the hard facts, but TUL, AFW and MCI mechanics are being paid at line mechanic wages while doing OH mechanic work. No other airline does that, then think about the overhead of those 3 base's. A lot of company's are farming out HR work, what makes you think AA won't farm out OH maint. AA has already taken steps to lesten the amount of FSC's AA has, not only by farming out their jobs at smaller airports, but by putting in automated parking system at the gate's of big airports.

Not even mentioning all the management at the OH base stations that are making a lot of money, but producing nothing, then there's the health care pension obligation's, all that kind of stuff. It seems like the logical choice to shrink AA, but not cut capacity. There will be a lot of layoff's and a lot of good mechs will leave AA. This will effect all the line stations because of the movement I'm sure. If they sell those base stations it will be horrible for those mechs that decide to uproot their families and move someplace more expensive then TUL.

I hate to break the news to you, every airlines pay ALL their mechanics the same, be it line or overhaul type work. The only difference might be some type of line premium for working in the environment.

 

[Bob Owens]

Assuming you mean overhaul maintenance when you say hanger, AA is the only airline that does it's own overhaul maint. all the other airlines take it to company's like Timco, AAR, or flying the a/c out of the country for a C check, and those company's are not paying $32+ an hour with a retirement other then 401k. USair , UAL Delta did away with their overhaul during their bankruptcy's.All the other airlines have a fraction of the amount mechanics on their payroll as AA does. Mostly due to the fact we took the 2003 MOAC, (mother of all concessions).

I have no doubt that if AA decides to replace us if we go on strike, those laidoff mechanics will jump at the chance to make $35 an hour at AA.

What laid off mechanics? We have some who are still on recall but here in NY they went through nearly 300 to get a handful of guys to come back, they moved on.

We keep hearing that other airlines did away with OH, well thats not so, most still do some, even SWA, AA just does more, at one time however we were the leader in outsourcing.

I would take SWA pay and 401K over ours anytime. At SWA you would be looking at a company contribution of about $8k a year, plus they put $8k of the $30 k more than we make for at total of $16k a year, compare that to the company contribution to my Pension of $1100 (for 2008, for some reason they havent updated the Total Value for 2009).

The fact is that doing OH work in house saves AA money, even if TIMCO is paying their guys $26 an hour that doesnt mean that AA would be getting the work done for that rate, AA would be paying at least $55/hr for the labor of that $26/hr Timco mechanic, Even when you add in the benifits AA is saving a ton of money. According to the company they pay an average of $8000 for benifits for each worker, so that adds only $3.85 to the Total cost. (That shows you how much the value of benifits has declined, years ago the rule of thumb was double the wage.)If we were asking for $50/hr like UPS then they might save by outsourcing but we were never asking for anything near that.

 

[Bob Owens]

I hate to break the news to you, every airlines pay ALL their mechanics the same, be it line or overhaul type work. The only difference might be some type of line premium for working in the environment.

Most have Geo, shift and Longevity premiums as well.