TWU Mechanic and Related T/A - Important Questions

[Duke787]

I hate to break the news to you, every airlines pay ALL their mechanics the same, be it line or overhaul type work. The only difference might be some type of line premium for working in the environment.

Tell me where UAL,SWA,Delta, do their OH............I might have missed the fact that USair does it's own narrow body checks, but to say ALL he airlines do thier own checks is just wishful thinking.

 

[Duke787]

Most have Geo, shift and Longevity premiums as well.

Bob, aren't you going to correct this guy, about the fact that not every airline does their own overhaul, or are you going to continue the rhetoric that there are no other A&P's looking for work, and we can't be replaced. That's the same kind of noise that forced all the NWA mech's to lose thier jobs.

 

[Duke787]

What laid off mechanics? We have some who are still on recall but here in NY they went through nearly 300 to get a handful of guys to come back, they moved on.

We keep hearing that other airlines did away with OH, well thats not so, most still do some, even SWA, AA just does more, at one time however we were the leader in outsourcing.

I would take SWA pay and 401K over ours anytime. At SWA you would be looking at a company contribution of about $8k a year, plus they put $8k of the $30 k more than we make for at total of $16k a year, compare that to the company contribution to my Pension of $1100 (for 2008, for some reason they havent updated the Total Value for 2009).

The fact is that doing OH work in house saves AA money, even if TIMCO is paying their guys $26 an hour that doesnt mean that AA would be getting the work done for that rate, AA would be paying at least $55/hr for the labor of that $26/hr Timco mechanic, Even when you add in the benifits AA is saving a ton of money. According to the company they pay an average of $8000 for benifits for each worker, so that adds only $3.85 to the Total cost. (That shows you how much the value of benifits has declined, years ago the rule of thumb was double the wage.)If we were asking for $50/hr like UPS then they might save by outsourcing but we were never asking for anything near that.

I would love to have SWA contract, but we would lose our pension and about 8000 mechanics, and I seriuosly doubt your thought process is correct about our OH saving AA money. I think the only reason AA keeps TUL and AFW is the fact those guys are second to none in their qaulity of work.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, aren't you going to correct this guy, about the fact that not every airline does their own overhaul, or are you going to continue the rhetoric that there are no other A&P's looking for work, and we can't be replaced. That's the same kind of noise that forced all the NWA mech's to lose thier jobs.

What needs to be corrected? Delta does OH, in fact they do 3P overhaul as well. I heard from a Delta mech they got into a situation with a Foreign carrier that contracted to do a C check or something and Delta was planning to sub it out. The carrier objected, said they want Delta Mechs to do the work.

Went to SFO last year, the parking lot for UAL wasnt padlocked like Dalfort, plenty of cars in there, SWA does stuff in Houston I think.

As far as I know most of the majors do some degree of OH, none do as much as AA.

When all else fails bring up NWA. That ws five years ago and the pendulum has swung the other way. Havent seen anyone from NWA say they wish they were still there. NWA planned ahead, started training 18 months ahead of time and still couldnt get enough scabs. In the end NWA had to be bought out, when's the last time you saw two carriers merge where they didnt lay off mechanics? Delta kept everyone. "Look around, its all old men in this industry, kids arent going to A&P school that much anymore, the majority that do come out and never even try and go into this industry, weekend work, holiday work, shift work and random drug and alchohol testing with no job security and mediocre wages. Would you recommend this to your kids? If we walk they are F$%^%D.

 

[The Goose]

I would love to have SWA contract, but we would lose our pension and about 8000 mechanics, and I seriuosly doubt your thought process is correct about our OH saving AA money. I think the only reason AA keeps TUL and AFW is the fact those guys are second to none in their qaulity of work.

Duke, you're either painfully ignorant or you're a liar.

We will not lose that damned pension - it would simply be "frozen" and will be available to be drawn on either with the company administering it or the PBGC. This wonderful pension may stop earning additional benefits but IT IS NOT TAKEN AWAY.

I would prefer a 401k rather than a friggin' pension because of the portability issue, not to mention the fact scared little boys such as yourself keep bringing up things that can't happen. Money is money, turkey - I don't care if it comes from my savings or if it comes from the PBGC.

Please, do not shill for the TWU or company - do not repeat TWU and company lies.

As far as losing mechanics - American is sorely overstocked on mechanics and as long as the company continues to operate overstaffed (in order to keep the dues flowing to the TWU) we will not see any improvement in TAs or labor contracts.

American could easily cut 50% of the mechanic inventory if everyone would actually do their job for 5-6 hours daily. The TWU keeps the concessions going to keep their dues income coming in. Were the company to rid itself of its slugs the money would be there for the raises and benefit improvements everyone wants, but that's not in the union's best interests.

Why do you think there is no evaluation provision for mechanics at American? The TWU could care less re: how much or little any individual does, just as long as that individual pays their dues. If AMR woke up some day and decided to actually run American as a real business.

Again - this so-called "representation" we have does not profit if the company is run effciently.

The TWU's income does not depend on our efficiency, ability, or whether or not we sit on our asses all shift , rather, our numbers for dues payment.

We have to insure that this company runs efficiently, for our own sakes and the sake of those who will follow or possibly get laid off in the process - an efficient operation ensures that even if some are laid off, there will be a place for them to return to eventually.

 

[Bob Owens]

your thought process is correct about our OH saving AA money. I think the only reason AA keeps TUL and AFW is the fact those guys are second to none in their qaulity of work.

Our weighted average hourly rate is Title I is curently just shy of $31/hr, unweighted its around $24/hr. The figure I was given that AA would have to pay an MRO is $55/hr. They are saving money and they get the best quality, which saves them even more, a win-win for the company.

 

[Bob Owens]

Were the company to rid itself of its slugs the money would be there for the raises and benefit improvements everyone wants, but that's not in the union's best interests.

Management determines the workload given to each worker, not the union.

The fact is that even if they cut half the workforce and you doubled your output this company would still claim they cant afford to give you anything. In fact they cut the workfoce by over a third and increased the revenue per employee by more than that but they still say they dont have the money.The company generates nearly $100k more per employee than they did 7 years ago when our wages were higher yet they still claim they cant give us anything. This TA is a zero cost contract, the concessions will pay for whatever increases you see despite double digit fare increases and higher load factors.

The company will never, ever admit that the money is there for us.

 

[The Goose]

Management determines the workload given to each worker, not the union.

The fact is that even if they cut half the workforce and you doubled your output this company would still claim they cant afford to give you anything. In fact they cut the workfoce by over a third and increased the revenue per employee by more than that but they still say they dont have the money.The company generates nearly $100k more per employee than they did 7 years ago when our wages were higher yet they still claim they cant give us anything. This TA is a zero cost contract, the concessions will pay for whatever increases you see despite double digit fare increases and higher load factors.

The company will never, ever admit that the money is there for us.

Amazing - you're defending the enemy, Bob. Is that why Little didn't remove you again from the president's post?

Again - employment is artificially high re: mechanics to ensure the mighty TWU gets enough income.

 

[Duke787]

Duke, you're either painfully ignorant or you're a liar.

We will not lose that damned pension - it would simply be "frozen" and will be available to be drawn on either with the company administering it or the PBGC. This wonderful pension may stop earning additional benefits but IT IS NOT TAKEN AWAY.

I would prefer a 401k rather than a friggin' pension because of the portability issue, not to mention the fact scared little boys such as yourself keep bringing up things that can't happen. Money is money, turkey - I don't care if it comes from my savings or if it comes from the PBGC.

Please, do not shill for the TWU or company - do not repeat TWU and company lies.

As far as losing mechanics - American is sorely overstocked on mechanics and as long as the company continues to operate overstaffed (in order to keep the dues flowing to the TWU) we will not see any improvement in TAs or labor contracts.

American could easily cut 50% of the mechanic inventory if everyone would actually do their job for 5-6 hours daily. The TWU keeps the concessions going to keep their dues income coming in. Were the company to rid itself of its slugs the money would be there for the raises and benefit improvements everyone wants, but that's not in the union's best interests.

Why do you think there is no evaluation provision for mechanics at American? The TWU could care less re: how much or little any individual does, just as long as that individual pays their dues. If AMR woke up some day and decided to actually run American as a real business.

Again - this so-called "representation" we have does not profit if the company is run effciently.

The TWU's income does not depend on our efficiency, ability, or whether or not we sit on our asses all shift , rather, our numbers for dues payment.

We have to insure that this company runs efficiently, for our own sakes and the sake of those who will follow or possibly get laid off in the process - an efficient operation ensures that even if some are laid off, there will be a place for them to return to eventually.

I agree with you on every point except for the personal attack, but thanks for the correction.

 

[Bob Owens]

Amazing - you're defending the enemy, Bob. Is that why Little didn't remove you again from the president's post?

Again - employment is artificially high re: mechanics to ensure the mighty TWU gets enough income.

Defending the enemy? Trying to set the record straight. We currently have 1800 people without system protection. Many are recalls. Did the union make the company call them back? No. Staffing is determined by the company.


If you had said that the union targeted our benifits and working conditions to insure dues flow I would agree. Instead of just taking a 25% wage cut we took a 17.5% wage cut and rest in benifits and work rules which doesnt affect dues revenue. We ended up with the least amount of Vacation, the least amount of Sick time accrual, the least amount of IOD time, the least amount of Holidays and the lowest pay for Holiday work. The removal of the Pilot cap allowed the company to jack up our health care coverage by 500%. These concessions cost us thousands of dollars a year but they didnt lower the dues.


I have no problem pointing out the faults in our union, but certain things are the company's fault. I certainly am not going to give the company a free ride and blame everything on the union.