twu international unaccountable

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Jim Little gets paid $260K to represent 115,000 members.

You can knock about 10,000 of those members off because he didn't represent title I at AA in the least!!

They will be able to knock off all of title 1 soon when AMFA files the cards so that we can VOTE THEM OUT..

Most of the line stations mechanics have signed cards we are now working on getting the Facilities and automotive
departments as well..

SOON the TWU will be Gone and BIG Don V., Bobby G, G Drumman, and the rest of the TWU Intl. supporters won't
us to screw anymore.

Don't forget about Oct 30th the AMFA web broadcast.

Safety in the Air begins with Quality maintenance on the Ground.. Sign an AMFA card NOW........

 

[WNMECH]

It was actually the 99% against the 1%.

That was their claim, but it was really a bunch of deadbeats rallying against anyone with a decent job.

 

[Overspeed]

So let me get this right. You are saying that a Union President should get paid more if they have more members? So if some guy forms a union where they have a million members earning minimum wage he deserves a higher paycheck than say the President of the pilots Union where the members make well over the minimum wage?

You are saying the salary of the President should be based upon how many people pay dues and not based upon how succusful the Union is at maximizing pay and benefits?

Why do you think people want to join unions? I always though it was for better pay and benefits, you seem to think of unions as a sort of Ponzi scheme.

You are basically saying that our labor becomes a commodity for the benefit of the President and that he should profit by having more members and its OK to make getting more members the goal instead of having the members get more.






If you had left it at that you would have made a valid counter point, the other crap about how many members the union has being used to determine the pay of a Union President was just dumb and reveals your Business Unionist mentality. Justifying substandard contracts with the goal of maximizing the number of dues payers at the expense of pay and benefits for the members is not why people join unions, or why people would keep a union, maximizing dues payers at the expense of pay and benefits for the dues payers to enhance the pay and benefits for top union officials is unethical, immoral and destructive to the movement. People who think that way do not belong in the labor movement.

No you don't have it straight...again. Bob if the measurement is for pay and benefits alone than yes AMFA wins. However, giving up 80% of your memberships jobs is extremely costly. Since AMFA represents a paltry 2,700 members after having 18,000 only a few short years ago those other 15,000 dues paying members got great representation from AMFA and Louie Key earned that $125K he made in your opinion. Great job representing those guys and dues well spent.

A ponzi scheme would be where you get nothing in return for what you paid in, in this case dues. The TWU made sure those dues paying members at the base got $34/hour instead of what AMFA got their base membership at UA (Airframe overhaul outsourced), NW (damn near everything outsourced), and AS (no fighting the OAK base closure even though they were not in BK and had a contract). AMFA's ponzi rating is five Madoff's out of five. AMFA does treat their overhaul members as a commodity, and expendable one for the line guys and you love that Bob. It is what you gets you excited.

Keeping 65% of your overhaul send in house is good for our members. All our members. If you had your way we would be laying off 4,000 members instead of less than a few hundred due to the Early Out and SiS. That's a win for all our dues paying members. We had a superior contract back in May 2010 but winners like you recommended a no vote. How's that working out Bob? Sure blame me and all the TUL membership. It is the world you live in and you don't like it. You blame the courts, the laws, the consultants, you label falsely, you spout inaccurate and out of context facts, and you accept no blame for misleading and flat out lying. But hey, that's cool Bob. I, like you, have enough seniority to hang on. And even if we change unions I'll still do my job just like you and cash my paychecks. Under and AMFA agreement I probably would make more money, seriously flawed and perverted viewpoint it is to roll over on our union post 1990 seniority group so we can be richer. 5,000 jobs for $7/hour raise...that's a really high price to pay.

 

[Overspeed]

One of the Major things that scares the crap out people about AMFA is people like you with the reputation Expected Bad Decisions pushing said Union. You know if someone such as yourself is pushing so hard for something with the decision making abilities you possess, there has to be a pure crap hidden lining lurking.

Ken's a child. He lacks ethics as has been pointed out many times on this blog. He berates Don V and AA Corporate yet he accepts their help. He sells out his so-called integrity at the drop of a hat. Don V got him in to DFW when the transfer list was closed yet he fails to admit he uses connections and favoritism constantly to his advantage. If he didn't manipulate the system he would have had his family spilt up and Don V helped him out. But yet Ken keeps spouting nothing but hate for him. He talks massive smack talk about AA management and how they show us no respect then takes their money when it is his pet project at stake. Honoring our profession by taking money from the very people that our sending our jobs to China is disgraceful. He should break out his check book and give the money back and have good hardworking AMTs provide the necessary funding to honor Mr. Taylor. But no, Ken is was worried that he would not be in the limelight. He cares nothing about our profession in reality. It is more about the ego of a short man that plays with plastic figurines.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ken's a child. He lacks ethics as has been pointed out many times on this blog. He berates Don V and AA Corporate yet he accepts their help. He sells out his so-called integrity at the drop of a hat. Don V got him in to DFW when the transfer list was closed yet he fails to admit he uses connections and favoritism constantly to his advantage. If he didn't manipulate the system he would have had his family spilt up and Don V helped him out. But yet Ken keeps spouting nothing but hate for him. He talks massive smack talk about AA management and how they show us no respect then takes their money when it is his pet project at stake. Honoring our profession by taking money from the very people that our sending our jobs to China is disgraceful. He should break out his check book and give the money back and have good hardworking AMTs provide the necessary funding to honor Mr. Taylor. But no, Ken is was worried that he would not be in the limelight. He cares nothing about our profession in reality. It is more about the ego of a short man that plays with plastic figurines.

Yawn!

 

[Overspeed]

Yawn!

Oh I'm sorry. Did we wake you? I know how hard it is re-racking c/m's and doing a heavy PS out there in SAN.

 

[Bob Owens]

No you don't have it straight...again. Bob if the measurement is for pay and benefits alone than yes AMFA wins. However, giving up 80% of your memberships jobs is extremely costly. Since AMFA represents a paltry 2,700 members after having 18,000 only a few short years ago those other 15,000 dues paying members got great representation from AMFA and Louie Key earned that $125K he made in your opinion. Great job representing those guys and dues well spent.

A ponzi scheme would be where you get nothing in return for what you paid in, in this case dues. The TWU made sure those dues paying members at the base got $34/hour instead of what AMFA got their base membership at UA (Airframe overhaul outsourced), NW (damn near everything outsourced), and AS (no fighting the OAK base closure even though they were not in BK and had a contract). AMFA's ponzi rating is five Madoff's out of five. AMFA does treat their overhaul members as a commodity, and expendable one for the line guys and you love that Bob. It is what you gets you excited.

Keeping 65% of your overhaul send in house is good for our members. All our members. If you had your way we would be laying off 4,000 members instead of less than a few hundred due to the Early Out and SiS. That's a win for all our dues paying members. We had a superior contract back in May 2010 but winners like you recommended a no vote. How's that working out Bob? Sure blame me and all the TUL membership. It is the world you live in and you don't like it. You blame the courts, the laws, the consultants, you label falsely, you spout inaccurate and out of context facts, and you accept no blame for misleading and flat out lying. But hey, that's cool Bob. I, like you, have enough seniority to hang on. And even if we change unions I'll still do my job just like you and cash my paychecks. Under and AMFA agreement I probably would make more money, seriously flawed and perverted viewpoint it is to roll over on our union post 1990 seniority group so we can be richer. 5,000 jobs for $7/hour raise...that's a really high price to pay.

Your spins are getting more and more pathetic. Making the same false accusations over and over again. Please show us the language that keeps those overhaul jobs in house. Please show where I said we should sell out OH so the line can get more. i said we should fight. Fight, you know, one of the reasons why people join unions. Sure they have the MD-80s but thats only because nobody wants to do them, and with the 1800 mechanics that AA gets for free it would not make sense to outsource that work. Workers dont need unions to discount their labor, Bosses can do that for them for free. As those planes go away so willl the members, if not through attrition there is nothing stopping them from laying them off, regardless of their seniority. Gless even admitted that within a few years our headcount will be below 8000. AA will still enjoy the lowest paid mechanics in the industry as our mechanic to aircraft ratio convereges with other carriers.

We had a 1998 system protection date, you voted to remove that date, now you come here and accuse others of being willing to ""roll over " on our post 1990 seniority group. You rolled over on everyone when you voted YES, spin, spin spin, nobodys buying it.

5000 jobs for a $7/hr raise may be expensive, but you cant prove that would have happened, but instead of facing and fighting the company we agreed to give up at least 4000 for nothing (no limit they could go further).

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Oh I'm sorry. Did we wake you? I know how hard it is re-racking c/m's and doing a heavy PS out there in SAN.

No, you didn't wake me. Unlike the twu I'm not asleep at the switch or should I say asleep at the negotiation table.

And your insinuation of life on the Line being overly easy you again prove your arrogance, ignorance and lack of intelligence as well as your continued cowardice.

The reason people post here is because industrial, catch all, undemocratic, unaccountable unions are not wanted by AMTs at AA but you are unable to defend your leaders/twu structure and must fall back on personal attacks.

As I previously posted... "Yawn!"

Go AMFA!

 

[AA89]

It was actually the 99% against the 1%.

That was their claim, but it was really a bunch of deadbeats rallying against anyone with a decent job.

The things you learn when you listen to am radio.................

 

[Kev3188]

Justifying substandard contracts with the goal of maximizing the number of dues payers at the expense of pay and benefits for the members is not why people join unions, or why people would keep a union, maximizing dues payers at the expense of pay and benefits for the dues payers to enhance the pay and benefits for top union officials is unethical, immoral and destructive to the movement. People who think that way do not belong in the labor movement.

+1000

Everybody should read this. Then read it again.

A ponzi scheme would be where you get nothing in return for what you paid in, in this case dues.

That's just it; the membership at AA isn't getting a decent return on their investment.

BTW, not only is the TWU "leadership" STILL fumbling things at AA, you're completely f**king it up for the rest of us trying to organize at other carriers.

So, yeah, thanks for that.

 

[Overspeed]

Your spins are getting more and more pathetic. Making the same false accusations over and over again. Please show us the language that keeps those overhaul jobs in house. Please show where I said we should sell out OH so the line can get more. i said we should fight. Fight, you know, one of the reasons why people join unions. Sure they have the MD-80s but thats only because nobody wants to do them, and with the 1800 mechanics that AA gets for free it would not make sense to outsource that work. Workers dont need unions to discount their labor, Bosses can do that for them for free. As those planes go away so willl the members, if not through attrition there is nothing stopping them from laying them off, regardless of their seniority. Gless even admitted that within a few years our headcount will be below 8000. AA will still enjoy the lowest paid mechanics in the industry as our mechanic to aircraft ratio convereges with other carriers.

We had a 1998 system protection date, you voted to remove that date, now you come here and accuse others of being willing to ""roll over " on our post 1990 seniority group. You rolled over on everyone when you voted YES, spin, spin spin, nobodys buying it.

5000 jobs for a $7/hr raise may be expensive, but you cant prove that would have happened, but instead of facing and fighting the company we agreed to give up at least 4000 for nothing (no limit they could go further).

Wrong Bob again. The number of jobs is never locked in under scope or a system protection provision. It's simple Bob when you think about it. System protection is a date that locks in who the last person is that can be laid off but it does not lock in how many jobs there are. In the case of the 1998 date, if AA continues to attrit out AMTs and never rehires eventually they would start outsourcing work regardless of the work load. AMFA at WN locks in 2.75 AMTs per aircraft in their contract yet as work load increases, those additional jobs that are needed to maintain an older fleet can and will be outsourced. Not so with the TWU language. While jobs are not locked in when an airline has an annual maintenance budget of $2B and most of it is labor, 65% of that $2B is a LOT of jobs plain and simple.

Now on to Bobby's statement about going down to 8,000 HC. That is probably very true but tell the whole story Bob. The reduction in HC is driven by new aircraft and their maintenance programs. But guess what Bob, new airplanes get old and require more work over time. 65% of the maintenance spend means that a lot of that new work is going to be done in-house by union workers, not non-union ones at AAR or Aeroman in El Salvador. Now I know you throw up maintenance materials are included in the calculation but do you know what is in the definition of materials Bob? It's not rotables, it's consumables. Rotables or repairables are assets and carried on the AMR books as such. When you change a fuel pump you are putting on one that is repaired or overhauled and only the consumable material used in that parts overhaul is what gets billed to M&E annually. Look at the books closer Bob and see how accounting actually works in a business. I know you can see Wall Street from your house but that's not enough.

This union did not discount labor. The IAM, AMFA, and IBT did when they allowed the ultimate discounting of labor. Weak scope language that allows union jobs to be outsourced to China, Korea, Mexico, and El Salvador so a smaller and smaller U.S. based union group can get more money is disgraceful. The TWU did not do that until all those other unions took that step over the past ten years. You blame the TWU and it's really them but you want to join their outsourcing party because you have high seniority and you will be part of the AMT 1%'ers at AMFA. Yeah there line 2,700 have higher wages but they allowed all the other 15,000 union jobs to be outsourced. Great job but apparently you are okay with that.

I rolled on no one. Have you seen the latest lay off numbers after the EO? Less than 300 are going to be laid off. Under your plan of risking abrogation you were ready to let 4,600 to fall on the sword so you could get $38. The same $38 you were going to get by ratifying the May 2010 agreement. The truth is Bob, you wanted the judge to eliminate as many overhaul jobs as possible so that you and the line presidents would have more votes that the base next negotiations. You would finally get what you wanted, control of negotiations by the line presidents. Sad Bob. You would be wiling to trash the careers of so many fine people so you could get your geo-pay. The scope clause is great Bob and that's why you don't like it. Because even though there will be dip in base employment due to new aircraft you know they will get older. And older planes on the new scope language will drive more base jobs and you hate that. Why? Because your goal of line maintenance controlling negotiations and giving up more base jobs for a fatter paycheck won't happen and that bothers you to no end.

 

[Overspeed]

That's just it; the membership at AA isn't getting a decent return on their investment.

BTW, not only is the TWU "leadership" STILL fumbling things at AA, you're completely f**king it up for the rest of us trying to organize at other carriers.

So, yeah, thanks for that.

And those members at UA, NW, US, and AS that worked overhaul got a decent return on their dues investment? They became unemployed! Did they get better jobs making more money? While some did, the US BLS states that the majority never made anywhere near the same income they did at their previous job. I'm f**cking it up for the rest if us? That's the problem, the "rest of us" is becoming a smaller and smaller group. All those members who lost their jobs to outsourcing got a great return on their dues investment didn't they.

 

[Overspeed]

No, you didn't wake me. Unlike the twu I'm not asleep at the switch or should I say asleep at the negotiation table.

And your insinuation of life on the Line being overly easy you again prove your arrogance, ignorance and lack of intelligence as well as your continued cowardice.

The reason people post here is because industrial, catch all, undemocratic, unaccountable unions are not wanted by AMTs at AA but you are unable to defend your leaders/twu structure and must fall back on personal attacks.

As I previously posted... "Yawn!"

Go AMFA!

Line is not easy in a big line station. We fix all the stuff you can't do in SAN. You ran from the real work in DFW because you couldn't hack it and missed the SAN country club where you get to knock out a clean PS, stroll through the terminal, hit on a gate agent, run out for a burrito for two hours, play ping pong, type on your laptop, take a nap between 0200 to 0500, and maybe burn a DVD to two. In DFW we actually work for a living and you couldn't hack it. Now you have the extra time for your AMTA website and soliciting donations for more busts.

The craft union AMFA has been real busy doing so much good for AMTs right? How does a craft association trash the careers of 15,000 members in less than two years and you call that a success? How does OV getting $565K in his last year in office after the loss of the remainder of all the UA airframe jobs even though the IAM had scope language in the CBA saying UA could not, taking NW out on an ill advised strike, and letting AS close the only overhaul base they had make sense. You say the TWU reps, regardless of how they got in, have screwed over the membership. How? While AFW is closing, the TWU negotiated an agreement in BK that dropped layoffs from 4,600 to less than 300. That's a win Ken. Under the doomsday scenario, even you might have been bumped by a TUL AMT out of SAN to maybe hang out with your buddies Bob and Chuck in JFK.

 

[1AA]

No you don't have it straight...again. Bob if the measurement is for pay and benefits alone than yes AMFA wins. However, giving up 80% of your memberships jobs is extremely costly. Since AMFA represents a paltry 2,700 members after having 18,000 only a few short years ago those other 15,000 dues paying members got great representation from AMFA and Louie Key earned that $125K he made in your opinion. Great job representing those guys and dues well spent.

A ponzi scheme would be where you get nothing in return for what you paid in, in this case dues. The TWU made sure those dues paying members at the base got $34/hour instead of what AMFA got their base membership at UA (Airframe overhaul outsourced), NW (damn near everything outsourced), and AS (no fighting the OAK base closure even though they were not in BK and had a contract). AMFA's ponzi rating is five Madoff's out of five. AMFA does treat their overhaul members as a commodity, and expendable one for the line guys and you love that Bob. It is what you gets you excited.

Keeping 65% of your overhaul send in house is good for our members. All our members. If you had your way we would be laying off 4,000 members instead of less than a few hundred due to the Early Out and SiS. That's a win for all our dues paying members. We had a superior contract back in May 2010 but winners like you recommended a no vote. How's that working out Bob? Sure blame me and all the TUL membership. It is the world you live in and you don't like it. You blame the courts, the laws, the consultants, you label falsely, you spout inaccurate and out of context facts, and you accept no blame for misleading and flat out lying. But hey, that's cool Bob. I, like you, have enough seniority to hang on. And even if we change unions I'll still do my job just like you and cash my paychecks. Under and AMFA agreement I probably would make more money, seriously flawed and perverted viewpoint it is to roll over on our union post 1990 seniority group so we can be richer. 5,000 jobs for $7/hour raise...that's a really high price to pay.

AMFA members have better pay and benefits. AMFA members do not have a card drive to oust their current union. AMFA members are happy members. They are not bitching about their union or company at the same level we are at AA. 2700 members or 27,000 members. They are satisfied with their union. Are we with the TWU? That should be your comparison. Not numbers and money. You have gotten so far out of touch with the basics of unionism that your tripping over your own feet.

 

[Rogallo]

I know how hard it is re-racking c/m's and doing a heavy PS out there in SAN.

So, in your opinion, why does the company continue to pay line mechanics at class 2's to do those jobs?

Must be of some value to the company.