TWU gets 4.8% equity

[1AA]

Wow, and this was his position just earlier that same year.

http://www.amfa-aa.c...003_Revote.jpeg

OF COURSE THAT "REVOTE" NEVER TOOK PLACE

JUST LIKE "WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT LIKE HELL" NEVER HAPPENED EITHER

Sad very sad that this happened and no one can do a dam thing about it. No accountability from the International. They write letters and spew mis information making us believe that we have a leg to stand on. Fight Like Hell? Yea for the International to get their legal fees paid.
Come on boys lets get those AMFA cards signed and lets file away to rid ourselves of this disease infested union. Thanks for posting the letter Chuck. A eye opener for all to see.

 

[TWU informer]

AND SO THEN SHORTLY AFTER THIS WE BEGAN THE DENNIS BURCHETTE LED "PAJAMA PARTY" ENHANCED "WORKING TOGETHER" PROCESS AND WE GAVE THEM $500 MILLON IS SAVINGS IN WORK RULE CHANGES AND PRODUCTIVITY IMPROVEMENTS.

"AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY"

 

[Realityck]

Are you done with the colored text too, moron?

Sure, as long as you morons' can read regular text?

 

[iluvaa]

Are you done with the colored text too, moron?

Sure, as long as you morons' can read regular text?

Suck a dock

 

[Realityck]

Suck a dock

spoken like the brilliant scholar you obviously are.

 

[swamt]

AND SO THEN SHORTLY AFTER THIS WE BEGAN THE DENNIS BURCHETTE LED "PAJAMA PARTY" ENHANCED "WORKING TOGETHER" PROCESS AND WE GAVE THEM $500 MILLON IS SAVINGS IN WORK RULE CHANGES AND PRODUCTIVITY IMPROVEMENTS.

"AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY"

Take note of his last para.
All the union officers will be in the feild to accurately explain how they (TWU) will regain what was taken from them in the 2003 agreement. What happened to that Jim?

It also states in there that they will get to re-nego wages in 2006. What happened to that Jim??

He also states early on that they wanted to avoid BK in 2003 so that they didn't have to pay the hundreds of attorneys that they would have to pay for BK. What happened to that Jim???

When are you guys going to learn. This union (TWU) with the appointed leadership, is always willing to give into the company with conssesions. They have proven it time and time again; 1993, 2003, tried in 2006, tried in 2010, and here we are at the end of 2012 with the TWU willingly giving into the company once again. That's well over 10 years of "CONSSESIONS" from the company union TWU. Make Jim Little answer to everything he promiced in his letter, otherwise fire him and all appointed officers by voting in AMFA and YOU GUYS deside what is good for the membership or not. Take control of your union guys...

This Sat., Sep. 8th there is an AMFA informational meeting. Get all your questions answered, as well as all the TWU and teamsters lies settled and brought to light for all to see. I highly encourage ant fence sitters to go and see how AMFA is ran by mechanics for mechanics. You cannot get any more democratic than AMFA.

 

[1AA]

Are you done with the colored text too, moron?

Sure, as long as you morons' can read regular text?

You realize that most of us have been here for years. You on the other hand show up in June of 2012 and have done nothing but criticize and spread fear. I think we can all read normal size text.

 

[1AA]

He also states early on that they wanted to avoid BK in 2003 so that they didn't have to pay the hundreds of attorneys that they would have to pay for BK. What happened to that Jim???

Well he got that part right. The company covered that one in this Bankruptcy.

 

[Realityck]

[background=rgb(242, 242, 242)]
Bob Owens, on 03 September 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:[/background][background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]

You missed the point, the new contract has a disclaimer where it lets the 1114 process determine what happens to our part of the company match.

Its been long established that other than the pension, benefits are not protected in bankruptcy, and the only funds that should be discussed in the 1114 process should have been the funds belonging to currently retired members, not us.

The Prefunding Trust never did, nor was intended, to cover the full cost of the plan. Terminating Retiree Medical and terminating the Prefunding are related but seperate things. Prior to Prefunding we had Retiree medical but it was 100% company funded, that changed with prefunding. By 1991 we were still the only people paying for our retiree medical 30 years before recieving the benefit. Many members didnt like the idea of paying into a fund that the company held and that would also dissapear in BK so they changed the agreement, in order to keep it the company offered a dollar for dollar match held outside the company. They said that if the company should go bankrupt, which at one time meant Chapter 7 -Liquidation, and unilaterally terminated the plan that whatever we put in prefunding, along with the match, would be available to us to buy Retiree medical when we retire. The plan always had the option for either party to opt out, we could agree to opt out, in that case we would only get what we put in and the investment experience-the company would keep the match, we only got both halves if the company unilaterally opted out. In this case the company didnt terminate the plan unilaterally such as in Chapter 7, nor did they terminate it unilterally through the 1113 process, we agreed to terminate participation in the the plan, and let the 1114 process determine what happens to the other half. YOU GAVE IT AWAY WHEN YOU VOTED YES!! Now the 1114 committee gets to decide whether to give it back or keep it for themselves or give it to the company to continue providing current retirees benefits till the plan runs out of money-your money![/background]



For your own reasons you seem to be determined to make retirees the spoilers on this issue and it is unfortunate and false. Any change to retiree medical coverage is part of the 1114 process. The termination of the trust changes retiree medical coverage because many retirees still have money in the trust, both their own and the employer match, which is drawn down over a ten year period. So the question of how the trust is dissolved would be part of the 1114 process whether it was in the contract or not. The APFA contract has the same provision. But, what is really unfortunate is your attempt to argue that the retirees are somehow trying to take control of the active employee’s money to fund their retiree medical. I’ve looked at the docket, I’ve tracked the proceedings of the retiree committee, and no one has attempted to interfere with the distribution of the active employee’s money or the employer matching funds. This is nothing more than your usual speculation.

In response to another comment I read from one of your supporters, I attend meetings too and was told that each of the unions is looking for alternative retiree medical coverage and that participation in any alternative program would be voluntary and would not prevent distribution of any of the funds in the trust to employees who had participated. But, rather than spreading rumors, why don’t you ask your Local President to get the International’s position on this. Oh I forgot, the whole point of this is to spread rumors, and you are the Local President.


..................................................................................................................................................



This is almost funny, I make a point and provide facts about prefunding to answer several innuendos and rumors made on this site, and what do I get in response—a discussion about the failure to have a revote of the concessions in 2003 and more blabber about the IAM being at fault for anything bad that happened at UAL. Well, ok, no union at American, including the APA and APFA, re-voted the 2003 agreement. AMFA did not revote the concessions it made in 2005 even though Tilton and his gang were paid obscene compensation. And what were those concessions? There was the termination of the pension plan, outsourcing of utility and computer maintenance work, and allowing heavy checks to be performed overseas. This doesn’t cover the pay and benefit concessions either. Did they force the Company to bring back work? Did they stop furloughs? Not hardly.

But, I don’t criticize the IAM for making the concessions it made or even AMFA for making further concessions when it came on the property. The Company was in bankruptcy and both of them realized that the alternative was a worse term sheet. They both made the same judgment the TWU and APFA made (and the APA tried to make), except that the TWU kept more work. But, the ultimate judge is the UAL membership and, led by the overhaul group, they threw AMFA off the property and haven’t brought them back.

But UAL isn’t the only story. There is, of course, NWA, Horizon, ATA, and now Mesaba. AMFA in 2003 represented seven carriers and 25,000 members. Now they represent two carriers with 2500 members. But, that doesn’t matter because its all the IAM’s fault or the fault of the evil industrial unions.

 

[swamt]

Realityck, You freakin need a reality check...

 

[Realityck]

[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]

OWENS:

For your own reasons you seem to be determined to make retirees the spoilers on this issue and it is unfortunate and false. Any change to retiree medical coverage is part of the 1114 process. The termination of the trust changes retiree medical coverage because many retirees still have money in the trust, both their own and the employer match, which is drawn down over a ten year period. So the question of how the trust is dissolved would be part of the 1114 process whether it was in the contract or not. The APFA contract has the same provision. But, what is really unfortunate is your attempt to argue that the retirees are somehow trying to take control of the active employee’s money to fund their retiree medical. I’ve looked at the docket, I’ve tracked the proceedings of the retiree committee, and no one has attempted to interfere with the distribution of the active employee’s money or the employer matching funds. This is nothing more than your usual speculation.

In response to another comment I read from one of your supporters, I attend meetings too and was told that each of the unions is looking for alternative retiree medical coverage and that participation in any alternative program would be voluntary and would not prevent distribution of any of the funds in the trust to employees who had participated. But, rather than spreading rumors, why don’t you ask your Local President to get the International’s position on this. Oh I forgot, the whole point of this is to spread rumors, and you are the Local President.


For the benefit of those who denied there would be a payment of Company prefunding contributions to active participants, this letter is a copy of one posted on the Local 512 web site. Attn: Owens, TWU informer, all remaining AMFA clones


September 4, 2012

To: All Local Presidents

Re: Pre-Funded Retiree Medical Contributions

Dear Brothers:

Unfortunately we have had an issue with misinformation being disseminated to the
membership and I have been receiving calls. The newly ratified TWU/AA
agreements, approval of which is scheduled for hearing before the Bankruptcy
Court next week, provides that TWU Members who are participants in the
prefunding program will receive their own contributions plus investment earnings
and the employer contributions plus investment earnings, subject to "successful
conclusion of the 1114 process”.

Please note that some of the misinformation circulating appears to arise from the
fact that the original prefunding agreement states that one of the potential uses of
the employer money would be to secure alternative retiree medical coverage in the
event the trust is terminated; such a program, the original agreement is clear, must
be agreed to by the parties. It is in connection with this provision that several
Local Presidents have asked that we investigate whether it is possible to secure an
alternative retiree medical program. Let us make absolutely clear, right here and
now, so there can be no misunderstanding: any such program is subject to TWU’s
agreement to it; and TWU will only agree to any alternate program if participation
in it by individual members is COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY. We will not
permit enactment of any program that would interfere with distribution of the
employer contribution back to any employee, absent that employees individual
authorization.

Fraternally,

Donald M. Videtich
International Representative
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
[/background]

 

[TWU informer]

So WHO are the "several" "LOCAL PRESIDENTS" trying to give it away?

 

[Vortilon]

Anybody seen the formula the TWU will be using to distribute to the membership - the 4.8% equity stake in the company?

 

[Mach85ER]

Just wondering,
Like the pilots, the deal says AA will "support" the TWU/APFA equity share with the UCC.

Could the UCC say that without the pilots, we don't accept the deals with the FA's and TWU and push for abrogation?

 

[AANOTOK]

I'm thinking the Judge makes that decision and not the UCC. Especially since the company and the unions have agreed.