TWU gets 4.8% equity

[Bob Owens]

OWENS: You apparantly dont understand the concept of a company match. The company matched each individuals contribution dollar for dollar, similar to a 401K, Some put in $6000, some put in over $40,000. If we are not retired then we have nothing to do with the 1114 process, and our money should not be used as a bargaining chip for other people.


I hate to disillusion you as I do know the concept of a company match and you got the first part right Bob, the dollar for dollar match. You also said similar to a 401K, and you were right again.




Where you go off track is saying we have nothing to do with the 1114 process since we’re not retirees. We don’t, but the Retiree Medical Plan involves retirees remember? And that is what the Judge and the 1114 Committee have the authority to review, should the Judge decide to do so.

Your comment about using “our money” as a bargaining chip for other people doesn’t make any sense.

Our Contract Says: “Employer contributions and investment earnings attributable thereto in the Retiree Prefunded Benefits Program Account will be used for the exclusive benefit of participating employees and retirees in the event of Trust termination. That includes the use of the assets for the purpose of continuing retiree health coverage under an alternative program as may be agreed to by the parties”.

It’s obvious you’re very concerned for the retirees and your comment “our money should not be used as a bargaining chip for other people” is certainly an indication of that. But nowhere does the contract language I’ve quoted direct that “our money” has to be used for others.

Its going to the 1114 committee because we voted to allow it to go to the 1114 committee. We most likely screwed ourselves out of the match, we wont get any more than we would have recieved had we voluntarily opted out of the plan without the company going BK.

 

[Realityck]

Its going to the 1114 committee because we voted to allow it to go to the 1114 committee. We most likely screwed ourselves out of the match, we wont get any more than we would have recieved had we voluntarily opted out of the plan without the company going BK.

You have again missed the point. The money in the trust could only be used for one thing, the payment of retiree welfare benefits for employees who contributed and whose contributions were matched. Under the new contract, the trust will be terminated and all of the contributions, both employee and employer, will be distributed to participants. However, under the Bankruptcy Code any change made to a retiree medical program has to approved by the court. Here the prefunding trust is being dissolved—and the money is now no longer limited to payment of retiree welfare benefits. That is something that has to be approved by the court when a company is in bankruptcy. As it happens, looking at the docket no-one has objected to the dissolution of the trust and the distribution of the money, so I really don’t know what your complaining about.

 

[1AA]

I heard the same thing about the TWU and AA filing some motion or request to give the TWU the employer contributions and start some TWU insurance plan for the retired.

I have no details, but there are plenty of rumors about the TWU taking our trust fund dollars to start selling more insurance.

The reason this has a valid sound to it is because every other company provided insurance plan that the TWU has lost, they soon start selling the insurance plan.

Better hide your wallet, those concession pushers are coming for it again.

Well if that is true then we should stop our contributions right now. This way the company match stops and the TWU will get less from the company. If we stop the contribution we may lose the company match if we do get it. If we do not get it then we are giving the TWU more money. We are in a dam if you do or dam if you don't position.
We should pressure the TWU to take the money the company gave them for legal fees and apply it to the retire insurance. That would probably happen when we see a August snow storm in New York.

BY NO MEANS DO NOT STOP YOUR CONTRIBUTION AT THIS TIME!

 

[TWU informer]

You have again missed the point. The money in the trust could only be used for one thing, the payment of retiree welfare benefits for employees who contributed and whose contributions were matched. Under the new contract, the trust will be terminated and all of the contributions, both employee and employer, will be distributed to participants. However, under the Bankruptcy Code any change made to a retiree medical program has to approved by the court. Here the prefunding trust is being dissolved—and the money is now no longer limited to payment of retiree welfare benefits. That is something that has to be approved by the court when a company is in bankruptcy. As it happens, looking at the docket no-one has objected to the dissolution of the trust and the distribution of the money, so I really don’t know what your complaining about.

What is causing the complaining is the Local Union Officers at more than one station are saying the TWU and AA are going to file into the docket to allow the TWU to have the company contributions to fund a "new" TWU plan.

I have no idea if this is true or not.

But most Local Officers are more in the know than you are. So the complaining is taking place.

If you are willing to sign your name to a contractual document assuring that each individual will recieve the company match then the complaining will stop.

 

[odie01]

Hey Realdyck,
What do you think the twu needs to do win back its membership? What I mean is, we are getting close to having half the membership disagree with having the twu as are union, how can the twu improve to serve the ATD or AMT?

 

[Hopeful]

Hey Realdyck,
What do you think the twu needs to do win back its membership? What I mean is, we are getting close to having half the membership disagree with having the twu as are union, how can the twu improve to serve the ATD or AMT?

Wait until reality sets in as his union dues increase and the TWU reaps the benefits of the equity and gives all the international staff a nice fat increase for delivering the "goods."

 

[Bob Owens]

You have again missed the point. The money in the trust could only be used for one thing, the payment of retiree welfare benefits for employees who contributed and whose contributions were matched. Under the new contract, the trust will be terminated and all of the contributions, both employee and employer, will be distributed to participants. However, under the Bankruptcy Code any change made to a retiree medical program has to approved by the court. Here the prefunding trust is being dissolved—and the money is now no longer limited to payment of retiree welfare benefits. That is something that has to be approved by the court when a company is in bankruptcy. As it happens, looking at the docket no-one has objected to the dissolution of the trust and the distribution of the money, so I really don’t know what your complaining about.

You missed the point, the new contract has a disclaimer where it lets the 1114 process determine what happens to our part of the company match.

Its been long established that other than the pension, benefits are not protected in bankruptcy, and the only funds that should be discussed in the 1114 process should have been the funds belonging to currently retired members, not us.

The Prefunding Trust never did, nor was intended, to cover the full cost of the plan. Terminating Retiree Medical and terminating the Prefunding are related but seperate things. Prior to Prefunding we had Retiree medical but it was 100% company funded, that changed with prefunding. By 1991 we were still the only people paying for our retiree medical 30 years before recieving the benefit. Many members didnt like the idea of paying into a fund that the company held and that would also dissapear in BK so they changed the agreement, in order to keep it the company offered a dollar for dollar match held outside the company. They said that if the company should go bankrupt, which at one time meant Chapter 7 -Liquidation, and unilaterally terminated the plan that whatever we put in prefunding, along with the match, would be available to us to buy Retiree medical when we retire. The plan always had the option for either party to opt out, we could agree to opt out, in that case we would only get what we put in and the investment experience-the company would keep the match, we only got both halves if the company unilaterally opted out. In this case the company didnt terminate the plan unilaterally such as in Chapter 7, nor did they terminate it unilterally through the 1113 process, we agreed to terminate participation in the the plan, and let the 1114 process determine what happens to the other half. YOU GAVE IT AWAY WHEN YOU VOTED YES!! Now the 1114 committee gets to decide whether to give it back or keep it for themselves or give it to the company to continue providing current retirees benefits till the plan runs out of money-your money!

 

[Realityck]

You missed the point, the new contract has a disclaimer where it lets the 1114 process determine what happens to our part of the company match.

Its been long established that other than the pension, benefits are not protected in bankruptcy, and the only funds that should be discussed in the 1114 process should have been the funds belonging to currently retired members, not us.

The Prefunding Trust never did, nor was intended, to cover the full cost of the plan. Terminating Retiree Medical and terminating the Prefunding are related but seperate things. Prior to Prefunding we had Retiree medical but it was 100% company funded, that changed with prefunding. By 1991 we were still the only people paying for our retiree medical 30 years before recieving the benefit. Many members didnt like the idea of paying into a fund that the company held and that would also dissapear in BK so they changed the agreement, in order to keep it the company offered a dollar for dollar match held outside the company. They said that if the company should go bankrupt, which at one time meant Chapter 7 -Liquidation, and unilaterally terminated the plan that whatever we put in prefunding, along with the match, would be available to us to buy Retiree medical when we retire. The plan always had the option for either party to opt out, we could agree to opt out, in that case we would only get what we put in and the investment experience-the company would keep the match, we only got both halves if the company unilaterally opted out. In this case the company didnt terminate the plan unilaterally such as in Chapter 7, nor did they terminate it unilterally through the 1113 process, we agreed to terminate participation in the the plan, and let the 1114 process determine what happens to the other half. YOU GAVE IT AWAY WHEN YOU VOTED YES!! Now the 1114 committee gets to decide whether to give it back or keep it for themselves or give it to the company to continue providing current retirees benefits till the plan runs out of money-your money!

For your own reasons you seem to be determined to make retirees the spoilers on this issue and it is unfortunate and false. Any change to retiree medical coverage is part of the 1114 process. The termination of the trust changes retiree medical coverage because many retirees still have money in the trust, both their own and the employer match, which is drawn down over a ten year period. So the question of how the trust is dissolved would be part of the 1114 process whether it was in the contract or not. The APFA contract has the same provision. But, what is really unfortunate is your attempt to argue that the retirees are somehow trying to take control of the active employee’s money to fund their retiree medical. I’ve looked at the docket, I’ve tracked the proceedings of the retiree committee, and no one has attempted to interfere with the distribution of the active employee’s money or the employer matching funds. This is nothing more than your usual speculation.

In response to another comment I read from one of your supporters, I attend meetings too and was told that each of the unions is looking for alternative retiree medical coverage and that participation in any alternative program would be voluntary and would not prevent distribution of any of the funds in the trust to employees who had participated. But, rather than spreading rumors, why don’t you ask your Local President to get the International’s position on this. Oh I forgot, the whole point of this is to spread rumors, and you are the Local President.

 

[Flying low]

To Realityck, I'm beginning to wonder if your as blind as a bat by using those extra large font sizes.

 

[Realityck]

To Realityck, I'm beginning to wonder if your as blind as a bat by using those extra large font sizes.

Actually, you guys don't seem to understand much so I thought by using larger print (you know the kind they use for kid's books) it might help. However, I'm willing to try the small print again and see if it works.

 

[TWU informer]

Actually, you guys don't seem to understand much so I thought by using larger print (you know the kind they use for kid's books) it might help. However, I'm willing to try the small print again and see if it works.

You mean we don't "trust" not we don't "understand"

Like the TWU lie that AMFA at UAL was responsible for the closure of the Indianapolis and Oakland Maintenace Bases

Here is the IAM agreement with United and Page 8 clearly shows that is was the IAM that agreed to those closures.
http://www.amfa-aa.c...ay_OAK_INDY.pdf

Bigger text doesn't make the crap you spew true. In fact bigger text indicates that you are probabaly telling lies, or that you cannot get your point across. And that would be because of these type of TWU lies not because the text is too small.

 

[TWU informer]

It is also worth noting that the TWU stooges have been blaming AMFA for the heav maintenance at UAL being outsourced.

Also on Page 8 of the IAM/UAL restructuring agreement


http://www.amfa-aa.c...ay_OAK_INDY.pdf

Page 8
D.

The Company may contract out the work of heavy maintenance visits (as
defined by current Company practices consistent with AOP and MOP
guidelines) without restriction. Additionally, the Company may contract out up
to 20% of all remaining maintenance work annually as measured by the sum of
the Maintenance Operations Division's gross annual budget, excluding the cost
of heavy maintenance visits, plus those portions of stations' total gross annual
budgets attributable to building maintenance and ground equipment
maintenance, provided however this percentage may be exceeded in the event
the Company has fully utilized its existing equipment or facilities.

It is damn sad that the TWU has to lie to defend itself because the record is so piss poor that it is undefendable. So they must tell these lies in an attempt to survive the revolt of the TWU membership.

Page 7 SCOPE

Revise Article II-D (restriction on contracting out no more than 20% of all
maintenance work) to provide that (A the Company may contract out the work
of heavy maintenance visits without restriction and (B the Company may
contract out up to 20% of all remaining maintenance work as currently
measured by the sum of the annual budget. Article IV-B will also be revised to
provide that IAM inspectors will perform oversight inspection at any location
where United’s heavy maintenance is performed, applying Company standards
and subject to Company review.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Please read attachement from 2003 and comment as you will.....

 

[Rogallo]

Actually, you guys don't seem to understand much so I thought by using larger print (you know the kind they use for kid's books) it might help. However, I'm willing to try the small print again and see if it works.

Are you done with the colored text too, moron?

 

[TWU informer]

Please read attachement from 2003 and comment as you will.....

Wow, and this was his position just earlier that same year.

http://www.amfa-aa.c...003_Revote.jpeg

OF COURSE THAT "REVOTE" NEVER TOOK PLACE

JUST LIKE "WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT LIKE HELL" NEVER HAPPENED EITHER