TWU - Fear Based Union Leadership and Intimidation

[john john]

Great....... now let's see those numbers without the PUBLIC SECTOR workers.
 
Let's look at some of the highlights.

Without a union
http://american-agents.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/06/Profit-Share4.pdf
See How Pay Stacks Up Between American Airlines and US Airways
http://american-agents.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/02/WagesComparison.pdf
See How Benefits Stack Up Between American Airlines and US Airways
http://american-agents.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/02/BenefitsComparison.pdf

See How Health Care Stacks Up Between American Airlines and US Airways
http://american-agents.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/02/HealthCareComparison.pdf

 

[737823]

The AA agents I know want nothing to do with CWA. Its the worst agents that are pushing the union, the agents voted to remain unorganized last January.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Great....... now let's see those numbers without the PUBLIC SECTOR workers.
 
Let's look at some of the highlights.
 
The data on union membership were collected as part of the Current Population Survey (CPS), a monthly sample survey of about 60,000 households that obtains information on employment and unemployment among the nation's civilian noninstitutional population age 16 and over.
 
You can bet those 60,000 they use for sampling are targeting to make the "statistics" say what they want them to say.
 
this earnings difference reflects a variety of influences, including variations in the distributions of union members and nonunion employees by occupation, industry, firm size, or geographic region.
 
More proof they manipulated the numbers.
 
Public-sector workers had a union membership rate (35.3 percent) more than five times higher than that of private-sector workers (6.7 percent). 
 
Public sector jobs should not be included in this total since government is not held accountable to control costs.
 
Among states, New York continued to have the highest union membership rate (24.4 percent), and North Carolina had the lowest rate (3.0 percent). 
 
Another tactic they are using is to manipulate the numbers by targeting high cost of living areas with strong PRIVATE SECTOR TAXPAYER SUPPLEMENTED UNION EMPLOYEES to skew the results.

So you're telling me that you want to be an "At Will" employee who possibly lives in a "Right To Work" State?

Ok then go and find out what that really feels like then. Walk into your managers office, pull down your pants and bend over. Oh but make sure your shirt is still tucked in or he may fire you for not adhering to the new dress code.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

The AA agents I know want nothing to do with CWA. Its the worst agents that are pushing the union, the agents voted to remain unorganized last January.

Josh

Ridiculous. The agents will be organized. They lost last time by a mere 150 votes and this was prior to the devastation done to them in BK and the US agents will vote in overwhelming numbers over any who aren't interested or vote no.

 

[john john]

I know

You know nothing of the vote

 

[Kev3188]

You can't strike if you are an employee at will. It happened at US/PI and the NW/DL mergers.

Sometimes, you gotta go anyway, brother...
 
 

Works for me I don't need a union they haven't done nothing for me. 90% of the private sector doesn't have one and all is well

 
All due respect, but all is NOT well in this country. We are on the wrong trajectory.

I used to hear "I never needed a union" a lot. I'd usually just respond with "you never needed a union because you had a union."

I've been on both sides. Trust me; being (ably) represented is MUCH preferable.
 

 

La li--

In another thread, you mentioned not being anti-labor, yet here you are helping capital drive the wedge between public & private sector workers. We're ALL working class. What's the deal?


 
 

Why dont you read a little real labor history about how laws had to be broken and civil disobedience or worse had to take place to make gains for the working class?
 
You have been trained by the cult that pandering to politicians and following the letter of the law is your only solution. Meanwhile, politicians and legislation are controlled by the rich, laws are against us, and you are a wuss. Just Great! You would qualify to be in a higher position in the industrial union leadership.
 
Please read some history, find out how we got to this point, and show me where any real gains have been made for the working class by following leaders that think like you do.
 
You guys all talk about strength in numbers, but what are the numbers good for if they are never used? They seem to be only used under a false belief that we all do as they tell us at the ballot box. That aint working!

^This^

In know this was directed at 700, but its widely applicable. Everyone should read this a couple times and think about how it applies to them and their actions (or complacency)...

 

[JABORD]

Why dont you explain how it is a scare tactic?
 
If the Alliance vote goes down, both the IAM and TWU will lose there certification at US and AA, no union, no CBA.

http://www.nmb.gov/documents/representation/deter2006/33n027.pdf
The Association states that the official merger of East
and West took place on September 27, 2005. The Association
states that it is the voluntarily recognized representative of the
East and West Passenger Service Employees and requests that
the Board initiate an investigation to decide whether a single
transportation system exists for Passenger Service Employees,
and, if so, to certify the Association as the representative of the
consolidated, post-merger craft or class.

A.
Joint Agreement for the Formation of the Association
On September 9, 2005, the IBT and CWA entered into a
Joint Agreement for the Formation of the Association
(Agreement). On or about September 22, 2005, CWA mailed
out ballots and other information regarding the proposed
Agreement to all East Passenger Service Employees. The ballot
contained the following question: “Do you agree that CWA, the
US Airways Passenger Service union, should form an
association with the Teamsters, the America West Passenger
Service union, to jointly represent the Passenger Service
employees when the two airlines merge?” The ballot contained
spaces in which to mark yes or no.
On September 15, 2005, the IBT sent letters to all West
Passenger Service Employees announcing the formation of the
Association, explaining its purpose and providing information
on an internal union referendum to determine whether West’s
Passenger Service Employees would consent to a transfer of
IBT’s certification to the Association. On September 23, 2005,
ballots were mailed out to West Passenger Service Employees
along with the Agreement forming the Association and its
Constitution. The ballot asked the following question: “Do you
consent to a transfer of the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters’ certification as the designated representative of
America West Airlines, Inc.’s Passenger Service Employees to
the Airline Customer Service Employee Association – IBT and
CWA?” On October 14, 2005, the ballots were counted by an
independent election supervisor hired by the IBT. The count
determined that a substantial majority of those voting
consented to the transfer of the IBT’s certification to the
Association.
This case I've previously referenced appears to be the closest example to our present situation. The vote provided to the membership was Internal, voluntarily given and when agreed to by the membership, was then recognized by the NMB.
There is no evidence of fraud or gross abuse in the
affiliation or election process conducted by the IBT and CWA.
Each organization conducted a secret ballot of its members. In
each election a substantial majority of those who voted, voted
in support of the formation of the Association and the request
to transfer individual certifications to the Association. Based
on its investigation, the Board finds that the IBT and CWA have
affiliated for the purpose of representing Passenger Service
Employees at the combined carrier. The Board’s records are
revised to reflect the transfer of the certification issued to CWA
in NMB Case No. R-6435 to the Association and the
certification issued to IBT in NMB Case No. R-7011 is also
transferred to the Association.
The process that followed was then a 'Representational' vote of which in our case AMFA cards provided will put us on the ballot along with the 'no union' option. No doubt there remains much skeptcism as to wether the TWBoo could skirt this process and force it on us but I believe the fear campaign that we are already seeing, of a risk of ending with no Union, which is an outright lie, validates that we will recieve the choice. And unless there is reason to believe different, when we vote to disallow the 'Association' our present contract along the crappy representation will remain in effect.

Are you that stupid? If you vote down the Alliance and become non-union you have no more CBA, that's the law. It has happened in the industry plenty.

I can appreciate your efforts to encourage a Union mindset, yet when you lash out in this manner, and your statement provides false info, your doing yourself a dis-service. Credibility remains harder to gain back once you loose it.
 

And we have a contract. Signed agreement. Twu is still liable to enforce the contract they negotiated. You can't just step aside and your CBA goes away. More fear tactics in favor of the alliance vote if it ever happens.

And this is why my friend 'oldguy' and Dave and other Tulsa folks, The "26 percenters" really need to come up with a stategy to counter this 'fear and smear' campaign that the TWBoo will continue to stoke at TUL.

 

[700UW]

If you become non-union, your CBA ceases, go ask the NMB.

 

[JABORD]

Works for me I don't need a union they haven't done nothing for me. 90% of the private sector doesn't have one and all is well

Unfortunately that makes you and other Union bashers, hypocrites. As Weaasles and other studies have confirmed, there is such a thing as Union Wages that traditionally are slightly above a median non-union wage scale. Your un-willingness to back up your own disenchantment with Unionism and quit to work at a non-union shop is weak. History provides a strong case for the tandem relationship between Unions and a fair quality of life that middle class society should be providing us. Agreed, some Unions have definitely lost their willingness to fight to retain their mojo! <_<

 

[iluvaa]

If you become non-union, your CBA ceases, go ask the NMB.

and if that is truely the truth than why would unions put there own members in a situation like this. Just proves to me they don't care about the members only dues, and this is why unionism in America is an abject failure

 

[iluvaa]

Unfortunately that makes you and other Union bashers, hypocrites. As Weaasles and other studies have confirmed, there is such a thing as Union Wages that traditionally are slightly above a median non-union wage scale. Your un-willingness to back up your own disenchantment with Unionism and quit to work at a non-union shop is weak. History provides a strong case for the tandem relationship between Unions and a fair quality of life that middle class society should be providing us. Agreed, some Unions have definitely lost their willingness to fight to retain their mojo! <_<

ill let you know when I ever see a union I can support cause the TWU isn't it. They are the only union I've been a member of, so if I'm jaded then I guess they have done a very poor job of representing me.

 

[WeAAsles]

and if that is truely the truth than why would unions put there own members in a situation like this. Just proves to me they don't care about the members only dues, and this is why unionism in America is an abject failure

 
"I know you have questions about what happens next. We are ready to begin the process of aligning pay, benefits and work rules, and producing a single seniority list as quickly as possible," said Gil West, senior vice president – Airport Customer Service, in a memo to employees. "The actual date when we can begin this transition will largely depend on whether the IAM respects your decision or chooses to file interference claims. We believe the IAM has no basis for filing interference, but if they do, we will not be in a position to align pay, benefits and work rules until the final resolution of representation is achieved. I know you're ready to move forward and we are urging the IAM to respect your choice."

http://news.delta.co...295&item=123527

It's not the Union that placed the "No Union" option on your ballot. It's a part of the NMB rules. So yea if there is a way around that not even being a possibility after what happened over at Delta, Woo Hoo, Hallelujah, let's party, keep that crap ass "No Union" vote possibility out of my freakin mailbox.

 

[JABORD]

If you become non-union, your CBA ceases, go ask the NMB.

I don't disagree. Yes, in the vote we would take for who we want for our representation, a vote run by the NMB of which I believe AMFA will prevail, there will be the choice to vote 'no union'. Only takers for that choice would be folks with their heads in the sand and I believe that is a minority. The topic we are discussing is what at this stage would be an INTERNAL separate vote by us to approve or disapprove the Alliance between TWU/IAM. This is the vote that the TWU, and it sounds like you included are trying to perpetuate that we could end up with no Union, no contract. I am calling bullcrap on that.....putz

 

[WeAAsles]

The union loss means that 7,200 former Northwest flight attendants, including 1,900 based in Minnesota, will no longer be represented by the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) in the merged airline. Their union contract ends, and their pay and benefits will be shifted to the Delta nonunion package.

http://www.marthastewardess.com/delta-flight-attendants-vote-no-to-union-representation/

 

[JABORD]

ill let you know when I ever see a union I can support cause the TWU isn't it. They are the only union I've been a member of, so if I'm jaded then I guess they have done a very poor job of representing me.

Well I guess you and I have more in common than I realized. Absolutely, the TWBoo is a poster child for what could be the worst Union ever. This definitely gives fodder to the non-union mentality. I just ask that you keep your mind open. The grass roots effort that many of us are engaged with for AMFA has a better ability to succeed because it derives from us, no attempt by some 300 lb gorilla to muscle their way in. Keep the faith.