TWU Equity Distribution Informational Meeting – Hand Out

[OldGuy@AA]

Bunch of Turds? Them is fighting words...

That's what it would look like if I went down to the union hall. I'd be the guy with no shirt though. I wanna show off my guns. hahaha

 

[xUT]

IAM rep'ed employees at NW got theirs paid out as cash...

IMHO, UA got theirs in their 401K (if they had one, I did). Not sure what happened if they didn't have a 401K. With the UA esop, I took a beating.
Sold it off as soon as possible. IIRC, NW had some kind of esop and AA had some stock scam as well.
Anywho!
Good luck to us worker bees....
B) xUT

 

[Bob Owens]

I believe it should be distributed fairly to everyone on payroll who had an opportunity to vote for or against the contract.
InSolidarity,
CIO

Well Yes and No. It should be given out fairly to those who are suffering under the worst deal ever in this industry bar none, not those who took their $40K and left.

What exactly is the Equity stake for?

Its for the value of what we are giving up going forward. They arent presuming to give us any value looking backwards because their arguement in court was that we were taking too much and thats why they wanted to abrogate the old concessionary deal and ram in terms that were even more favorable to them. "We're in BK so we can do anything we want".

So if the equity stake is in return for working under the worst deal ever in this industry who is entitled to it? Those who lost what they had and are still here. The others took their $40k and left, they arent giving anything up so they no longer have a stake.

 

[Bob Owens]

When the Teamsters take over at AA will the teamster (x twuu ) represented employees get a stake in the company ? Does anyone have an answer to this question will the RAID committee have an answer seems the twu is going to say no and the teamsters are going to say yes who knows the legitimate answer to this and anything to back it up.

IMO I cant imagine there being an election before July 26, (the USAIR results wont be out till mid-August) even if there was you would still be an AA employee regrdless of what union was on the property.

From what I read its conditional upon being employed by the company during that period of time.

 

[AANOTOK]

I have absolutely nothing to back it up other than he said/she said. I was told yesterday by a union rep that if the TWU were replaced by any union in any work group, the work group with the new representation would no longer be entitled to the equity shares. Scare tactic, probably, so don't shoot the messenger and take it for what it's worth.

 

[enough already]

They are masters at spreading fear...

 

[1AA]

That must be part of the Anti Teamsters Campaign the TWU is pushing.
That money is ours regardless who represents us.

 

[scorpion 2]

Well Yes and No. It should be given out fairly to those who are suffering under the worst deal ever in this industry bar none, not those who took their $40K and left.

What exactly is the Equity stake for?

Its for the value of what we are giving up going forward. They arent presuming to give us any value looking backwards because their arguement in court was that we were taking too much and thats why they wanted to abrogate the old concessionary deal and ram in terms that were even more favorable to them. "We're in BK so we can do anything we want".

So if the equity stake is in return for working under the worst deal ever in this industry who is entitled to it? Those who lost what they had and are still here. The others took their $40k and left, they arent giving anything up so they no longer have a stake.

It stated in the presentation what the equity was for but apparentlly it fell on greedy deaf ears that refused to hear it. Lines of early outs got up and gave speeches about how great their sacrifices were to take the 40 grand to save jobs. One guy even said that if it wasnt for him sirri wouldnt have his new job in title 2. ( sirri sunk a little lower in his chair, if thats possible) The vp and an e board member of 514 are the ones getting this all stirred up even though they arent losing anything. They just want to do a last minute grab on their way out. One guy told videtich that they will spend more fighting this in court than they would to just pay it. The presentation said AA determines who is eligable and turns those names over to the union, so they need to go after the company if they feel they are entitled. Most of the early outs were waiting for some type of package or excuse to go anyway and if the money for that was kept in the contract for more holidays or vacation or whatever and not givin to them they would have still left but probably voted no on the contract. Very few if any would have voted yes to save someone elses job if the 40k wasnt there.

 

[Thomas Paine]

I have absolutely nothing to back it up other than he said/she said. I was told yesterday by a union rep that if the TWU were replaced by any union in any work group, the work group with the new representation would no longer be entitled to the equity shares. Scare tactic, probably, so don't shoot the messenger and take it for what it's worth.

Well that would make the contract unenforceable because that equity is for what we are giving up. It could be argued that the equity was a bribe. Just as the concessions are portable so is the equity stake. I think what you are hearing are rumors being generated by people who just want to stir things up because I have not seen anything from the TWU that says that. I'm sure that's one of the questions asked at these meetings and if that was the case it would be all over the web by now.

 

[Thomas Paine]

That must be part of the Anti Teamsters Campaign the TWU is pushing.
That money is ours regardless who represents us.

Agree, just as we get to keep the concessions we get to keep the equity that was given in return. The UAL guys changed Unions, they kept it.

 

[Vortilon]

I have absolutely nothing to back it up other than he said/she said. I was told yesterday by a union rep that if the TWU were replaced by any union in any work group, the work group with the new representation would no longer be entitled to the equity shares. Scare tactic, probably, so don't shoot the messenger and take it for what it's worth.

Scare tactic is what it is. The NMB clearly states that whatever was negotiated by the current bargaining unit, for the members in question, remains in effect under the new bargaining unit. I wouldn't put it past the TWU to pass on attempting to screw the AA M&R one last time. Although Little and Videtich would need all that extra cash to cover their costs on retaining a personal security detachment.

 

[TWU informer]

TWU has backed themselves into a corner. They are done.

 

[Birdman]

The bottom line is some of us that took the early out were many years from retirement and therefore lost thousands when the pension was frozen. So, in reality if part of the equity was for pensions then all who were affected should be compensated based on age and years of service. Were the arguments made by the TWU last year not made on behalf of all members affected by the pension freeze or just the ones who didn't take the early out, retire, or just quit? Was the early out designed by the compAAny to cut high wage earners who are typically older, less healthy, less dependable, and less productive or by the TWU to save jobs? Whatever the reason equity and early out are two seperate issues just as 29D and scope. BTW, those of us that took early out were not left as well off as many of you might think. Taxes, lost wages, and benefits have erroded much of the gains.

 

[NYer]

Scare tactic is what it is. The NMB clearly states that whatever was negotiated by the current bargaining unit, for the members in question, remains in effect under the new bargaining unit. I wouldn't put it past the TWU to pass on attempting to screw the AA M&R one last time. Although Little and Videtich would need all that extra cash to cover their costs on retaining a personal security detachment.

Don't believe the Equity would qualify under that scenario since it is a product of the bankruptcy and not the CBA itself. But in the meeting in TUL they did mention that the Members would get the Equity if the IBT wins, but the TWU retains the right to distribute the funds, it wouldn't be handed over to IBT. Which is a relief considering how much debt the IBT Pensions have.

 

[scorpion 2]

The bottom line is some of us that took the early out were many years from retirement and therefore lost thousands when the pension was frozen. So, in reality if part of the equity was for pensions then all who were affected should be compensated based on age and years of service. Were the arguments made by the TWU last year not made on behalf of all members affected by the pension freeze or just the ones who didn't take the early out, retire, or just quit? Was the early out designed by the compAAny to cut high wage earners who are typically older, less healthy, less dependable, and less productive or by the TWU to save jobs? Whatever the reason equity and early out are two seperate issues just as 29D and scope. BTW, those of us that took early out were not left as well off as many of you might think. Taxes, lost wages, and benefits have erroded much of the gains.

So if someone takes the early out and has a job lined up that provides a defined pension should he be entitled to equity that is for the guys that are staying and lost theirs? This is for the people that are staying with the company and living with the concessions voted in for them. If a person took the early out i would hope like hell they had more to fall back on than 40k minus taxes, 25,000 after all said n done maybe? The twu did a piss poor job of counciling their members about taking the money and i would say they did this on purpose. If they would have alot of the younger members would have probably stayed and not took it but than that would have changed some yes votes to NO votes making counciling counter productive to their objective.